HERO System question

[atlascott]

I know that in heroic campaigns, your characters dont have to use CP's to build equipment. What they can afford, they can buy.

 

In Modern Hero games, this isn't a big problem, I dont think, because everyone is going to be able to buy a handgun or rifle, and the rest of the game is some flavor of problem solving and fisticuffs.

 

How do any of you guys handle balancing power levels in Fantasy Hero games? SPecifically, let's say the group aggregates to defeat the Powerful Wizard. Well, now the group mage has access and use of all of his high powered magic stuff, but Fred the Barbarian still has his Axe. In EFFECTIVENESS terms, Mr. Mage is a real tough guy, and the Barbarian is mot much different. Doesnt this defeat A VIRTUE of the HERO system--ie, CHARACTER EFFECTIVENESS BALANCE?

 

MAGICAL stuff could really throw everything off. What do you think, and how do you guys handle it? The reason I ask is that I am about up the HERE with d20, especially the BS move from 3.0 to 3.5, where they basically tweaked everything they could think of just to get you to buy more books. I am about done running any WOTC product or game. And, I want to start running HERO in every genre of game we play.

 

We have historically played Sword and Scorcery the most, but also have played modern/spy, modern and 1920's Cthulhu, modern horror/zombie/end of the world type games. Im unconcerned with everything except getting the group to accept a non-level based S&S game. What do you think?

 

Actually, one of the things that sort of drives me nuts about the Fantasy Hero book is that it is sort of written in a "you can do it this way, or you can do it that way, or..." sort of style that means 3x the work fo a GM wanting to prepare a game. I agree that options are nice, but and OFFICIAL APPROACH to alot of things (like magic, eg) would be helpful and make it easier for me to digest the info as I read thru the book. Any comments/suggestion?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: HERO System question

 

Well, in general I treat this as "sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander." If a party defeats the Powerful Wizard and gets to use his high powered magic stuff (access to which you as GM are free to deny them for any number of reasons BTW - you don't need to follow D&D treasure-looting conventions), there's no reason why said stuff can't include a magic axe for Fred the Barbarian. You can always look at the Active/Real Points of any magic that the PCs gain to see if they've all been given balanced additions.

 

If you're concerned about different balance issues, please specify and we'll see if we can help you.

 

As for "official" approaches to magic, probably your best bet is to pick up one of the two Fantasy HERO Grimoire(s), which are essentially big collections of prewritten spells, or one of the published setting books, Turakian Age or Valdorian Age, which also include magic system writeups, setting specific Package Deals and other pregens.

 

If you wouldn't mind unofficial stuff, there's plenty of generic fantasy material written up in the online Ultimate Grimoire and Fantasy HERO Treasure Trove. For a very thorough translation of D&D concepts into HERO System, including detailed conversion guidelines, I suggest the excellent High Fantasy HERO website.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: HERO System question

 

Actually' date=' one of the things that sort of drives me nuts about the Fantasy Hero book is that it is sort of written in a "you can do it this way, or you can do it that way, or..." sort of style that means 3x the work fo a GM wanting to prepare a game. I agree that options are nice, but and OFFICIAL APPROACH to alot of things (like magic, eg) would be helpful and make it easier for me to digest the info as I read thru the book. Any comments/suggestion?[/quote']

 

HISTORY LESSON: The prior edition of Fantasy Hero provided the "one true way" to do magic in Hero (under that edition, of course). It was widely reviled because many people disliked that specific system, and because sacrificing the flexibility provided by the Hero rules set to have "this is the ONLY way magic woirks in Fantasy Hero" made little sense.

 

So, while you wuld rather have a single official system, be aware that Hero has been burned before by providing exactly that, and discovering it was not what many gamers wanted.

[tancred]

Re: HERO System question

 

I've never liked the treasure-heavy approach that D&D all but requires. Someone said in another thread that PCs in D&D are the caretakers / defined by their magic items. You just can't compete at high levels without serious magic.

 

There's no reason in Fantasy Hero to fall into that trap. ANY magic items PCs find should be in use, or else have problems to match their powers that prevent them from being used.

 

I don't give a lot of magical treasure in my Fantasy Hero game, but the little I give can nearly always be used by anyone. I tend to stay away from mage-specific items, and grant more generic items that any PC can use.

 

I'll second the recommendation to get one or both of the FH Grimoires. And if you have Hero Designer (you don't? Why not? ) and can afford them, go for the HD packs for the Grimoire(s), too. (I haven't bought the HD packs yet, because we aren't currently playing Fantasy Hero.)

They will save you a bunch of time, if you want to have pre-generated spells for your players to pick from.

[MitchellS]

Re: HERO System question

 

As far as magic goes, the GM is the one who decides what magic items the enemy has. If you make your evil wizards with 30 magic items then that's what they have. If you make them with 3 magic items then that's what they have. A good GM is going to have an assortment of items for each character in the game. Fred the barbarian doesn't use magic axes? It's amazing how that exceptionally crafted battle axe just happened to be carried an used by the wizard's head guard.

 

Part of the beauty of the Hero System is that you can customize things to suit your needs.The big evil wizard's golden staff might not be magical at all. It might be nothing more than a focus through which the wizard uses his specific style of magic. The same for an amulet or ring he is wearing as well.

 

I also believe you are experiencing some confusion between what is a genre book and what is a campaign book. The 4E version of Fantasy Hero was a combined genre, campaign, and magic system book. It present how it thought magic should be handled. While that's a valid approach it doesn't represent all that Fantasy Hero can be. That's why the subject is broken into different books now.

 

Genre books like Fantasy Hero do nothing but show players many possible options of how to use the Hero System in a fantasy game. Their purpose is not to show you a "one true way" but instead to show what variety can be achieved using the Hero System. Campaign books, on the other hand, are designed to show the way Hero is handling the genre for their campaign world. So the Turakian Age has a specific group of magic systems, as does the Valdorian Age. Those are the one-true-way of doing it in the "official" worlds.

 

I think what you're really looking for, as others have mentioned, is Fantasy Hero Grimoire 1 and 2. Those books give you a concise magic system that you can use with little to no tinkering. It's not the only way a person can game, as the Valdorian Age clearly shows, but it is one detailed way.

[MitchellS]

Re: HERO System question

 

As far as magic goes, the GM is the one who decides what magic items the enemy has. If you make your evil wizards with 30 magic items then that's what they have. If you make them with 3 magic items then that's what they have. A good GM is going to have an assortment of items for each character in the game. Fred the barbarian doesn't use magic axes? It's amazing how that exceptionally crafted battle axe just happened to be carried an used by the wizard's head guard.

 

Part of the beauty of the Hero System is that you can customize things to suit your needs.The big evil wizard's golden staff might not be magical at all. It might be nothing more than a focus through which the wizard uses his specific style of magic. The same for an amulet or ring he is wearing as well.

 

I also believe you are experiencing some confusion between what is a genre book and what is a campaign book. The 4E version of Fantasy Hero was a combined genre, campaign, and magic system book. It present how it thought magic should be handled. While that's a valid approach it doesn't represent all that Fantasy Hero can be. That's why the subject is broken into different books now.

 

Genre books like Fantasy Hero do nothing but show players many possible options of how to use the Hero System in a fantasy game. Their purpose is not to show you a "one true way" but instead to show what variety can be achieved using the Hero System. Campaign books, on the other hand, are designed to show the way Hero is handling the genre for their campaign world. So the Turakian Age has a specific group of magic systems, as does the Valdorian Age. Those are the one-true-way of doing it in the "official" worlds.

 

I think what you're really looking for, as others have mentioned, is Fantasy Hero Grimoire 1 and 2. Those books give you a concise magic system that you can use with little to no tinkering. It's not the only way a person can game, as the Valdorian Age clearly shows, but it is one detailed way.

Just to follow-up a little. 5Er is a toolkit. A genre book like Fantasy Hero is an extension of the toolkit showing ways the toolkit can be used within the genre, but it's still a toolkit. A campaign book is where you get to the nitty-gritty of a specific style of gaming.

 

The Turakian Age is classic fantasy. It's everything you'd expect if you played D&D and read Lord of the Rings. Within the pages of the book are all the "classes," magic systems, races, and world information that you'd need to play in that style of game.

 

The Valdorian Age is sword & sorcery fantasy. It's everything you'd expect if you read a lot of Conan or Thieves' World. That book has all the "classes," magic systems, races, and world information that you need to play in that style of game.

 

It's not about making people buy more books. You can play in a TTA or TVA fantasy game and never own a copy of Fantasy Hero. Fantasy Hero is for people who enjoy using the toolkit to build everything themselves. It's for people who say I want sentient rocks who are priests of the earth and mages who must pluck out one eye in order to cast magic and thieves who must make elaborate sacrifices to their god or they will be captured after every caper. Most of FH is for campaign carpenters not campaign players [though there's good player info in there too].

[Silbeg]

Re: HERO System question

 

Part of the beauty of the Hero System is that you can customize things to suit your needs.The big evil wizard's golden staff might not be magical at all. It might be nothing more than a focus through which the wizard uses his specific style of magic. The same for an amulet or ring he is wearing as well.

 

Exactly!!

 

In addition, a lot of Big Evil Wizard's arsenal may be charged items (scrolls, wands, etc), that he uses up in the fight.

 

Example... his Wizards Cloak is protects him from the elements, and damage... is a +10ED/+10PD Force Wall, with a renewing trigger that allows it to come back up if dropped. To power it, he has to imbue it with a a human soul (probably through (fuel?) charges, or perhaps an END reserve that only recovers with a sacrifice) (he is the Big Evil Wizard, after all).

 

Once the players find it, they are all gaga about it, until they learn the cost! Sure they can use it, but will they be willing to? If they do, whether they recharge it or not, perhaps then some other hero(es) will go after them, as they are obviously evil using such a vile device!

[MitchellS]

Re: HERO System question

 

Exactly!!

 

In addition, a lot of Big Evil Wizard's arsenal may be charged items (scrolls, wands, etc), that he uses up in the fight.

 

Example... his Wizards Cloak is protects him from the elements, and damage... is a +10ED/+10PD Force Wall, with a renewing trigger that allows it to come back up if dropped. To power it, he has to imbue it with a a human soul (probably through (fuel?) charges, or perhaps an END reserve that only recovers with a sacrifice) (he is the Big Evil Wizard, after all).

 

Once the players find it, they are all gaga about it, until they learn the cost! Sure they can use it, but will they be willing to? If they do, whether they recharge it or not, perhaps then some other hero(es) will go after them, as they are obviously evil using such a vile device!

Excellent example with the cloak. I'll steal that sometime. Thanks.

 

I'll give you some Rep when the system lets me too.

[Phil]

Re: HERO System question

 

Non-recoverable charges (scrolls have been mentioned)

Limited items (only by Big Ass Evil Sorcerors)

Different schools of magic

Thieves

Attacks targeting items

 

Alternatively, adopt the Super Hero line: for such items, if a player wants to keep it and wants it to remain useful, he has to invest XPs in it. Say 50% of all XPs earned until he's paid it off.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: HERO System question

 

Limited items (only by Big Ass Evil Sorcerors)

 

How about "User must have 50+ points of necromantic spells" or "Object must be soaked in the blood of a human sacrifice monthly"? Or put a Side Effect on the artifact - slowly and invisibly transforms its user into an evil worshipper of Deity X (ie the object takes over as time goes on).

[The Hyborian]

Re: HERO System question

 

One way to handle magic item issues is to make some of the badguy's gear into powers bought with focus, instead of an independant item. Evil wizard made it, only worked for said evil wizard, and if evil wizard is now in the great beyond its just a funny looking stick instead of the wand of Uberness. Lets the vilians have cool stuff without the PC's turning into a armory when they win.

 

There are some plot devices you can resort to as well. One common, altough perhaps overused one, is the impending disaster when the villian finally buys it. You can have a vast storeroom of treasure, but when the badguy dies the roof starts to come down/the lava starts to pour in/the ancient tomb starts to reseal itself for another 1000 years, etc. Characters can grab the closest item and run like mad if they want to survive.

 

Another way to hadle this is to come up with stories that don't end in a full tactical assualt on the villian. Its kind of D&D mentality, and thus rpg tradition, that you leave nothing but death and carnage in your wake, but epic villians are epic for a reason. You might sneak into the fortress not to pound the blackheart mano-a-mano to the bitter end, but rather to steal a particular object, rescue a person, get some information, destory the widget of destiny, etc, and then get out before certain unavoidable death arives in the form of the archvillain.

[Dust Raven]

Re: HERO System question

 

I too have never much liked the requirement of magic items for higher levels of D&D. Even at the lower levels; if you haven't got a Somethingorother +1 by third level you're under par.

 

But back to the actual topic:

 

I think Lord Liaden nailed it with his magic axe example. There's really no reason why a mage would have treasures that can only be used by a mage. Stress on the only. It's likely that everything he has can be used by a mage, just not only a mage. Rings, potions, and various helpful items can probably be used by anyone. Let the group share.

 

Mmm... Let's give the barbarian the Nemean Cloak (Armor 10 PD only versus slashing, piercing attacks). The theif can have the Boots of Silence (Invisibility to Hearing Group, No Fringe). Since the wizard already has a staff, we'll give the Scepter of Light (HA +2d6 plus PRE +20 Only Vs Undead) to the cleric. Only the wizard can make sense of all these scrolls so he can have them.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: HERO System question

 

The general rule I've noticed is that characters in Heroic games can buy things with money, but only normal things.

 

To use a Fantasy specific example, Fred the Barbarian can use a normal ax sin Experience Points. That's what Fred does - he uses an ax. Fred gets a Flashy Magic Ax, and suddenly, he must spend character points, because it is relatively unique. Joe the Wizard has a quarterstaff, no XP. Joe the Wizard has a Flashy Magic Staff - XP. Normal boots, no XP. Magic boots - XP. Etc.

[Dust Raven]

Re: HERO System question

 

The general rule I've noticed is that characters in Heroic games can buy things with money, but only normal things.

 

To use a Fantasy specific example, Fred the Barbarian can use a normal ax sin Experience Points. That's what Fred does - he uses an ax. Fred gets a Flashy Magic Ax, and suddenly, he must spend character points, because it is relatively unique. Joe the Wizard has a quarterstaff, no XP. Joe the Wizard has a Flashy Magic Staff - XP. Normal boots, no XP. Magic boots - XP. Etc.

 

I don't have the 5th ed version of Fantasy Hero, but in 4th, all magic items are typically made with the Independant Limitation. So if they got them during game play as part of a treasure, they didn't have to pay points for them (some other character had already done that). Only if they wanted it made specifically for them or make it themselves did a character have to spend their own CP on a magic item.

 

Of course, I've never liked the Independant Limitation (something about permantly burning CP for what's likely to be a temporary gain really bugs me). You could just as easily disallow it, and require a character spend CP to keep a magic item, and return them to him if the item is permanently lost.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: HERO System question

 

Of course' date=' I've never liked the Independant Limitation (something about permantly burning CP for what's likely to be a temporary gain really bugs me). You could just as easily disallow it, and require a character spend CP to keep a magic item, and return them to him if the item is permanently lost.[/quote']

 

The stock answer is "well, you get a -2 limitation, so that's why". I find that a bit of a crock, however. The limitation is virtually always stacked with substantial other limitations, so the value oif that -2 isn't really that many CP. At a minimum, the object always has a Focus, most commonly OAF.

 

For example, let's say you have a Hackmaster +12. We'll call it a 3d6 HKA, 0 END with +12 Levels, only adds to OCV only. The whole thing is an OAF.

 

If it's not independent, it costs 60/2 = 45 * 1.5 /2 = 33 for the HKA, plus 12 x 5 /3 (assuming "only for OCV" to be -1) = 20, for a total cost of 53. Sure, it's expensive. It's a HACKMASTER! +12!

 

If not independent, it costs 45 * 1.5 /4 = 17 for the HKA, plus 12 x 5 /5 (assuming "only for OCV" to be -1) = 12, for a total cost of 29, saving 24 points.

 

The savings aren't insignificant, mainly because we didn't put many limnitations on the sword to begin with, and because it's a 127 AP power (working from AP, Independent saved 18.9%, less than a single -1/4 limitation applied to the base AP cost). But the savings are a far cry from the 2/3 we would get applying just a -2 limitation.

 

One of two things hapens, therefore. The character gets a powerful object which he soon loses because the GM enforces the -2 limitation. Or the character gets to keep the object forever because the GM doesn't want to deal with the whinefest that will follow its loss, so he gets a point break with no real drawback.

 

As such, I lean towards the "spend XP" approach. As a genre convention for some genres, like "hack & slash fantasy", allow the character to choose to abandon the item and get the xp back to spend elsewhere (most likjely other items), or house rule that some foci are not easily replaceable, but if lost you get the xp back to spend on something else that comes up in game.

[JmOz]

Re: HERO System question

 

I am going to do something odd: I am goin to run based on the Super Heroic rules of equipment, with the following cavet:

 

I design all equipment, If your knight has plate cool, but it will cost you points. I will also be raising the total to starting points to compensate

[Fenixcrest]

Re: HERO System question

 

The general rule I've noticed is that characters in Heroic games can buy things with money, but only normal things.

 

To use a Fantasy specific example, Fred the Barbarian can use a normal ax sin Experience Points. That's what Fred does - he uses an ax. Fred gets a Flashy Magic Ax, and suddenly, he must spend character points, because it is relatively unique. Joe the Wizard has a quarterstaff, no XP. Joe the Wizard has a Flashy Magic Staff - XP. Normal boots, no XP. Magic boots - XP. Etc.

 

I, personally, incorporate the XP cost "under the hood," as it were. I either count magic items as Christmas XP, or I mortgage them toward the Christmas XP. And I usually don't charge XP for items that are dead once their charges run out. This goes for crafting, as well.

[sbarron]

Re: HERO System question

 

The stock answer is "well' date=' you get a -2 limitation, so that's why". I find that a bit of a crock, however. The limitation is virtually always stacked with substantial other limitations, so the value oif that -2 isn't really that many CP. At a minimum, the object always has a Focus, most commonly OAF.[/quote']I think only making the PC pay the portion of the weapon that is above normal is a good option. It forces PCs to buy magic equipment with XP, but doesn't charge them for the part they could get for free.

 

Quick example for the uninitiated:

 

Sword, Bastard: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1 1/2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (37 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 12 (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)

 

Real Cost: 12

 

Magic Sword, Bastard: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2 1/2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 12 (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)

 

Real Cost: 20

 

The character would only have to pay 8 points for the magic sword (20 real points-12 real points). It's not a perfect system, but it helps control the amount of magic and maintain balance.

[atlascott]

Re: HERO System question

 

These conversations sort of confirm my hesitancy in running a HERO system fantasy game. In a d20 game (he shudders in revulsion), the GM just sort of tries to make sure everyone ends up with something, in an round about way. My current group has an elaborate "pay gold shares for magic equipment we'd otherwise sell" so PC's are compensated in gold for items that stay in the group.

 

In HERO system, I have to make my PC's pay for what they encounter and get through their adventuring--so, they are paying twice. Once by risk and derring-do in obtaining the item, and again, in effectively docking them XP to pay for what they've already earned. It is cumbersome and inelegant.

 

Also problematic is the idea of letting them have massively-point-effective items without SOME balancing consequence.

 

The idea that I award little or no magic, or cripple all powerful magic items is a workable solution, I suppose, but how are they going to react when in every adventure they obtain on average at least one decent item, and here, nothing? What if I WANT to simulate a high-magic campaign world?

 

This underscores, for me, why HERO is GREAT for supers and sci-fi, and even for Modern (I ran a modern game about 4 game sessions, and HERO worked GREAT) but not so much for Fantasy. Gamers of all stripes sort of expect certain things from a fantasy setting, and Im not sure there are any really flexible workarounds for them in the Fantasy setting. The fact that modifications and work arounds are necesdsary may be elegant proof that it is a setting ill-suited to the rules.

[Tom Carman]

Re: HERO System question

 

These conversations sort of confirm my hesitancy in running a HERO system fantasy game. In a d20 game (he shudders in revulsion), the GM just sort of tries to make sure everyone ends up with something, in an round about way. My current group has an elaborate "pay gold shares for magic equipment we'd otherwise sell" so PC's are compensated in gold for items that stay in the group.

 

In HERO system, I have to make my PC's pay for what they encounter and get through their adventuring--so, they are paying twice. Once by risk and derring-do in obtaining the item, and again, in effectively docking them XP to pay for what they've already earned. It is cumbersome and inelegant.

I don't really see the problem. In a Heroic game, I would not charge them XP for any treasure. Sure, it's a nice magic sword, but it is also inherently an Independent item and liable to go away. Oh and here's the fabulous Wand of Fireballs (with either non-recovering Charges or a Burnout roll). In this genre you DON'T get items permanently (unless it's cursed! Read Lawrence Watt-Evan's The Misenchanted Sword about a powerful magic weapon that just WON'T go away...)

[rjcurrie]

Re: HERO System question

 

If you're giving out a lot of magic items in your game -- then probably the good old D&D methods of divying up treasure (and ignoring the points) works just as well in Fantasy Hero, because there is a lot of stuff out there and it balances out in the end -- or at least as well as in D&D.

 

As for characters paying twice -- one can argue that the d20 method results in characters being rewarded twice for the same actions -- once in XP and once in treasure. Using a Hero method where you pay character points for all magic items, get rewarded once in XP. Some of that XP then goes to pay for the new abilities you gained through the items you've acquired, but it's still only a single reward. So, it's not so much that characters are paying twice for their gains in Hero, but that they are being rewarded twice in d20.

 

Rod

[Rick]

Re: HERO System question

 

Characters don't have to pay for the things they find in a fantasy game. If they find a magic sword, by the rules, they don't pay for it, they get it.

 

Heck I've a system in my next Fantasy hero game where if a character spends enough time with an item it can become magical at no cost to the pc, though they won't realize it's changed (magic in the world will be about intent and everyones somewhat touched with magic, like the force in starwars). So Garn, the peseant boy, who's only weapon is his dagger is in adventures for 10 years of game time. This whole time the PC keeps the blade (it was his father's), so after several years of game time I realize this, whenever I see him use that weapon I start give him a +1 ocv to hit (without telling him). That may go up later on too, I may even roll an extra d6 and add it to his damage if I'm so inclined.

[MitchellS]

Re: HERO System question

 

I don't really see the problem. In a Heroic game' date=' I would not charge them XP for any treasure. Sure, it's a nice magic sword, but it is also inherently an Independent item and liable to go away. Oh and here's the fabulous Wand of Fireballs (with either non-recovering Charges or a Burnout roll). In this genre you DON'T get items permanently (unless it's cursed! Read Lawrence Watt-Evan's [i']The Misenchanted Sword[/i] about a powerful magic weapon that just WON'T go away...)

Tom has a really good point here. If you're playing D&D style fantasy people seldom keep their magic items long. They progress from the +1 to +2 to +3, etc. I would never make someone pay character points for something they probably won't keep very long.

 

Hero is no different than any other game system. If you Monty Hall it and give them 10 magic items each they're going to be too powerful. You don't give a 150 point FH character +5 Holy Avenger any more than you do a 3rd level Paladin. The GM needs to take responsibility and know what he is giving out, just as he would in D&D.

 

In heroic game equipment is free. Found items are equipment as far as I'm concerned. The GM is the one who lets the find the items so ultimately the GM has complete control over the character's power level advancement in that regard.

[sbarron]

Re: HERO System question

 

Gamers of all stripes sort of expect certain things from a fantasy setting' date=' and Im not sure there are any really flexible workarounds for them in the Fantasy setting. The fact that modifications and work arounds are necesdsary may be elegant proof that it is a setting ill-suited to the rules.[/quote']Work arounds and modifications are not neccesary. They are helpful for trying to maintain balance between the PCs, which is a big part of the Hero system, but you don't have to use them. You can handle items in HERO just like you mentioned your DM does in d20 fantasy, or how you might in any other fantasy RPG. You just need to find a system that works for you.

 

I played HERO for years just I'd played D&D. Magic items were just add-ons to the character, no need to pay anything for them. It worked great. Did the GM have to keep an eye out to make sure that everyone was happy with the amount of magic they had? Sure. But it worked and we had fun.

 

It might not always be that easy, though. Since you can know the "true value" of items in HERO, it makes comparisons of items between players more likely. As a result, additional attention might need to be made to ensure that no one feels they are being short-changed. But that isn't always neccesary.

 

Also, it is very true that many gamers have specific ideas about what fantasy gaming means. And since so many of them had this idea shaped in D&D, they see D&D's way of doing magic items as the right way...which is to say, early, often, and powerful. The fact that HERO doesn't do D&D magic items just like D&D isn't really HERO's fault. HERO does magic items HERO's way, which in my opinion is generally closer to what is found in the novels and literature of the fantasy genre.

 

And the truth is, you can do magic items D&D's way in HERO. You also just have several other ways of approaching them that you can choose from if you are looking for something else. You just need to figure out what it is you want. Do you want perfect balance? Does there need to be a new magic item for every player after every fight? Will characters stockpile magic weapons, or keep just one or two? Figure out how you want magic items to work in your game, and I can guarentee you that the people on this board can help you come up with a system in HERO that will get you there.

[Toadmaster]

Re: HERO System question

 

I don't really see the problem. In a Heroic game' date=' I would not charge them XP for any treasure. Sure, it's a nice magic sword, but it is also inherently an Independent item and liable to go away. Oh and here's the fabulous Wand of Fireballs (with either non-recovering Charges or a Burnout roll). In this genre you DON'T get items permanently (unless it's cursed! Read Lawrence Watt-Evan's [i']The Misenchanted Sword[/i] about a powerful magic weapon that just WON'T go away...)

 

 

I agree, I don't see why FH is anymore of a problem than any other Heroic genre, what is the difference between a wand of fire balls 2d6 RKA 6 charges and a .44 Magnum 2d6 RKA 6 shots. Just because one is magic and one is available at the corner guns and armor shop?

 

If anything I've found mages at the disadvantage in HERO because the barbarian warrior can go buy Def5 chainmail armor and a big 2d6+1 axe, while the mage has to buy his spells with points.