I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[schir1964]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Possible April Fools Joke?

 

Otherwise, it's just sad... very sad...

 

- Christopher Mullins

[nexus]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That is just sad, or genius. You decide.

 

Hm, always on on ARMOR!? I guess if your character is a Type 1 Diabetic it might make getting his insulin injections difficult. More a physical limitation than a drawback to the power.

 

Total Honesty (Ver Com, Total). Here is how I would play it. This character not only will not lie. He can't lie. In fact, he can't keep his mouth shut. He blurts out the complete and total truth in even given circumstance whenever possible. He tells people exactly what he thinks of them, what he's planning, what he knows all the time. He'd immediately reveal any secret ID, tell his Hunted where he's hiding (if the thought of "hiding" occured to him at all That explains the "Easy to find"! ) and too say he telegraphs his moves in combat would be like saying the sun sheds a little light during the day.

 

His hair must be very long, cannot be cut or dyed (grows back instantly thanks to the regeneration?) and a truly revolting hideous shade of freakish blue that causes nausea is more normal humans.

 

The Side effect "attack power" is almost brilliant though. Of course, this effect everything around him. Villians, Heroes, bystanders, buildings, everything....

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

1. He coud do a 12d6 move by. With a 40 DEX, he still gets an 11 OCV.

 

2. Other than that, I pretty much agree with everything already said.

 

3. How 'bout this? Let him in exactly as written, with the condition that, if he ends up wanting to change characters, the next one obeys ALL campaign guidelines and ALL GM recommendations.

 

Now run a variation on the following:

 

Some master geneticist has designed a HeroKillerBug. He has designed it for VIPER, and they have decided to test it out on Our Hero, since (after all) they hate him more than anyone else in the world (14- Hunted). Looks like Our Hero is a mutant - if not, change the nature of the bug.

 

The heros are attacked by standard VIPER agents, except that they all wear rather bulky attachmnets (2, one on each side of their belt, say about fanny pack size) of some form of plastic., connected to some kind of spray nozzles attached to their wrists. They also have secondary sidearms.

 

When Our Hero attacks one, or even flies past (due to his Side Effect), he breaches containment of these compartments, which allows the designer Bug to escape. The Designer Bug infects [pick: any mutant; anyone with superpowers]. Ideally, it affects more than Our Hero. It is a cumulative 0 END uncontrolled continuous suppress with Extra Time (almost as abusive as some of your player's builds ), but you won't tell them how you builkt it. [if new character wants it, let him work for it.]. On exposure, and every 5 minutes thereafter, say, each affected target has an additional 1d6 character points of every mutant/super power suppressed. This includes characteristics enhanced from human norm by super-abilities/mutation (ie this mutant will end up with stats of 8, because that's bound to be the reason for 20 across the board). The entire team is affected. But 7d6 of Luck can't be all bad - Our Hero's armor, and therefore his luck, are somehow immune to this bug. Further luck - the VIPER agents know there is an antidote at the base (the only guy carrying the antidote was ruptured, so it's ruined), and one VIPER agent luckily had the address written down - it's stuck to the bottom of his boot. [That 7d6 luck really pays off, huh?]

 

After a hard-fought battle through the hordes of VIPER agents as OUr Heroes continue to weaken (make a point of rolling that d6 every time they encounter a group of VIPER agents, OUr Heroes get to the lab - and the antidote!

 

There's enough there for all of them. It works perfectly - halting further deterioration, and the lost points return almost immediately. Just one catch - it's injected. That shouldn't be a problem. Unless, of course, you happen to have Hardened Armor that can never be switched off.

 

CHaracter winds up with 8 stats across the board, 2 SPD, Armor and Luck. He still has any skills and perks not created by his powers. He loses his Dependence. His other disadvantages remain. I bet he wants to change characters...

 

This is pretty heavy-handed, and I wouldn't use it as my first tactic, but it sounds like this guy has been a problem for a while, and more subtle explanations haven't done the trick. Maybe learning that the GM always wins in any arms race may help the player to consider more appropriate characters in the future. After the session, you can offer the player two choices: You keep building "unsinkable" characters and :ill keep plotting "icebergs", or yuou can move beyond powermongering and get into the spirit of an RPG.

[John T]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

My probable responses to a submission like this (assuming the player actually knows the system, and my campaign requirements)?

 

1. "Ha-ha, very funny, April Fool's to you, too. Now where's the REAL character?"

2. "Dude, you wasted one of my character sheets..."

3. *sigh* "Would you like some help with this?.."

4. *crumple-crumple-crumple... toss...* "Next?.."

 

John T

[John T]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It probably says something about us that we both went straight to the cheese ... erm the greatest concentration of it' date=' anyway.[/quote']

"Behold, the power of CHEESE..."

 

John T

[Trebuchet]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I know next to NOTHING about the Hero system, as far as building characters.

 

I STILL know better than this. My jaw dropped when I realized he has armor Always On, and 3 powers linked to it!

I particularly liked that his Healing takes the Limitation for only working when the larger Power (supposedly Armor) is active when the Healing is in fact 18 Active Points higher.

 

Armor "Always On" as a Limitation is nice too. Since he didn't buy "Life Support: Need not eat or excrete" I can certainly see how this would be a problem. He'll be the world's fastest dead man after he starves to death inside his Always On armor.

 

Funniest character posting I've seen in months. Keep 'em comin', Josh!

[incrdbil]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Here's his "attack" power:

 

Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect only affects the environment near the character; Side effect of speed cause damage. I don't think he's even planning on attacking anyone, just running past them (not move by).

 

He's going to really need that 40 Dex. Yeah, right.

 

Well, being a siode aggect, and a disadvantage, I'd make sure that the side effect only really damaged things in a way that brought him problems.

 

Ie, he's sued for constantly destroyingthe city, sucking windows out of buildings, hurting countless innocents whenhe runs at noncombat---or managing to blind himself and his teammates with cluds of dust and debris stirred up.

 

Oh heck, let him play, and then constantly screwhim obver in every waqy possible. Gaming is supposed ot be fun for the GM too And there's no better way to learn than the school of hard knocks,

[JmOz]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Combat Wombat or Limitation Lass?

 

I'd be tempted to allow the character to be played as-is... except that Always On (on Armor??? how is that limiting?) added to Linked ("only when greater power is at full" no less) really sets my teeth on edge.

 

Nonetheless, combat would be amusing.

 

Phase 2: activation fails. do nothing.

Phase 3: activation fails. do nothing.

Phase 4: activation fails. do nothing.

Phase 6: activation fails. do nothing.

Phase 7: activation fails. do nothing.

Phase 8: activation fails. do nothing.

Phase 10: activation succeeds. try your move-through attack. watch as one of those pesky Viper agents hunting you uses his held action from hiding to hit you with a huge Dispel vs. Armor which you have foolishly not bought Inherent.

Phase 11: impact wherever it is your now-no-longer-available Flight catapults you to.

Phase 12: hope somebody cleans up the smear, since that Regeneration is also no-longer-available.

Post-12 Recovery: everybody sits around and has a good laff at your expense.

 

 

ON armor being Always On: It can be a limitation ask Power Girl about it when she had surgery in JLE. I would however allow the always on on armor at a -1/4 limitation (for that matter most powers that start at inherent I think I would only allow at -1/4 in most cases on always on) IF the player understands I will make it limiting to him/her

[JmOz]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

1. He coud do a 12d6 move by. With a 40 DEX, he still gets an 11 OCV.

 

2. Other than that, I pretty much agree with everything already said.

 

3. How 'bout this? Let him in exactly as written, with the condition that, if he ends up wanting to change characters, the next one obeys ALL campaign guidelines and ALL GM recommendations.

 

Now run a variation on the following:

 

Some master geneticist has designed a HeroKillerBug. He has designed it for VIPER, and they have decided to test it out on Our Hero, since (after all) they hate him more than anyone else in the world (14- Hunted). Looks like Our Hero is a mutant - if not, change the nature of the bug.

 

The heros are attacked by standard VIPER agents, except that they all wear rather bulky attachmnets (2, one on each side of their belt, say about fanny pack size) of some form of plastic., connected to some kind of spray nozzles attached to their wrists. They also have secondary sidearms.

 

When Our Hero attacks one, or even flies past (due to his Side Effect), he breaches containment of these compartments, which allows the designer Bug to escape. The Designer Bug infects [pick: any mutant; anyone with superpowers]. Ideally, it affects more than Our Hero. It is a cumulative 0 END uncontrolled continuous suppress with Extra Time (almost as abusive as some of your player's builds ), but you won't tell them how you builkt it. [if new character wants it, let him work for it.]. On exposure, and every 5 minutes thereafter, say, each affected target has an additional 1d6 character points of every mutant/super power suppressed. This includes characteristics enhanced from human norm by super-abilities/mutation (ie this mutant will end up with stats of 8, because that's bound to be the reason for 20 across the board). The entire team is affected. But 7d6 of Luck can't be all bad - Our Hero's armor, and therefore his luck, are somehow immune to this bug. Further luck - the VIPER agents know there is an antidote at the base (the only guy carrying the antidote was ruptured, so it's ruined), and one VIPER agent luckily had the address written down - it's stuck to the bottom of his boot. [That 7d6 luck really pays off, huh?]

 

After a hard-fought battle through the hordes of VIPER agents as OUr Heroes continue to weaken (make a point of rolling that d6 every time they encounter a group of VIPER agents, OUr Heroes get to the lab - and the antidote!

 

There's enough there for all of them. It works perfectly - halting further deterioration, and the lost points return almost immediately. Just one catch - it's injected. That shouldn't be a problem. Unless, of course, you happen to have Hardened Armor that can never be switched off.

 

CHaracter winds up with 8 stats across the board, 2 SPD, Armor and Luck. He still has any skills and perks not created by his powers. He loses his Dependence. His other disadvantages remain. I bet he wants to change characters...

 

This is pretty heavy-handed, and I wouldn't use it as my first tactic, but it sounds like this guy has been a problem for a while, and more subtle explanations haven't done the trick. Maybe learning that the GM always wins in any arms race may help the player to consider more appropriate characters in the future. After the session, you can offer the player two choices: You keep building "unsinkable" characters and :ill keep plotting "icebergs", or yuou can move beyond powermongering and get into the spirit of an RPG.

 

 

Nice. I could here it now "Why are you picking on me?"

[Haerandir]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I particularly liked that his Healing takes the Limitation for only working when the larger Power (supposedly Armor) is active when the Healing is in fact 18 Active Points higher.

 

In his defense, I think that's an artifact of Hero Designer, not an actual cheat. You'll notice that both the Flight and the Healing have Linked at the -1/2 value, but the Luck has it at -3/4. Without pulling out my rule book or firing up Hero Designer, I have no idea if those values are accurate, but the fact that they're different implies that he's at least aware of the disparity in Active Point cost. I assume that means he just didn't think to alter the default wording on the Limitation.

 

That's the one example I can find of the character not being completely incoherent, tho.

[MechaGM]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wow.

 

Just wow.

 

I especially like the combo of an 8- activation roll and the 7d6 of luck. (especially if you're using one of the optional Luck rules that they put into 5th edition)

 

Wow.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Nice. I could here it now "Why are you picking on me?"

 

"I'm not picking on you. I'm running a scenario I found on the Web before I even approved your new character." All true, technically...

[JmOz]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

See hugh, this is where I am different, I would look the guy in the eye and say

 

"This is what will happen everytime you try to powergame in my game, if you want help with a flying speedster I will be happy to help you make a balanced one."

[incrdbil]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Nice. I could here it now "Why are you picking on me?"

 

"Because the universal reaction of the Hero gaming community at large begged for me to torture you in punishment for that abomination". Then show him the thread as proof.

 

Now that is a Kodak moment.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

See hugh, this is where I am different, I would look the guy in the eye and say

 

"This is what will happen everytime you try to powergame in my game, if you want help with a flying speedster I will be happy to help you make a balanced one."

 

Actually, I seem to recall from a prior thread that SS has had trouble with this (or a similar) player for a while and was disinclined to confront the issue directly. I'm sure many of us would just take the character sheet out back, strike a match and ask the player when he would be designing his new character, which I consider a perfectly appropriate response (albeit "find a different game" would be right up there as well).

 

Of course, if the player is new to Hero System, "Let me give you some help with that. Looks like you want to have a flying speedster. Let's work that up together." would be the "HN Approved" response.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This wasn't an April Fools joke. The guy left the character with one of the other players before he went to Europe. I got the character about a week ago but refused to look at it out of fear as to what it would look like. I realized last night as I was writing down the information for the Destroyer Agents that I hadn't looked at it.

 

I opened it up... blinked. Quickly quit the program and uploaded the HDC. After getting over the shock of it, I looked at it again, this time looking at disadvantages and decided to post the full character to get more responses.

 

I'm going to have a very hard start to my game tonight. I have to sit down with one player and say, "After much mulling, I've decided to not permit your use of Independent."

 

Then I get to take this player and tell him that we are going to sit down and rebuild his character together.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm going to print out his sheet and take out my red pen.

 

I'm going to write on the front of the sheet: 3 out of 4 Hero Gamers thought this character was an April Fool's Joke.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm going to have a very hard start to my game tonight. I have to sit down with one player and say, "After much mulling, I've decided to not permit your use of Independent."

 

Then I get to take this player and tell him that we are going to sit down and rebuild his character together.

 

One approach I might consider (depends on the players' personalities) would be redesigning the cuharacters myself and presenting the players with something I would consider acceptable which seems to capture the gist of their characters, based on the sheets and (ideally) background and power descriptions. That gives you and the player a basis to start from.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm going to print out his sheet and take out my red pen.

 

I'm going to write on the front of the sheet: 3 out of 4 Hero Gamers thought this character was an April Fool's Joke.

 

Might want to add "The other 25% weren't suggesting an award for brilliant character design either..."

[Trebuchet]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I just noticed another thigh-slapper:

 

Healing BODY 3d6, Can Heal Limbs, Resurrection (55 Active Points); Linked (Armor; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2), Self Only (-1/2)

 

Since he didn't buy the Healing to 0 END Persistant, how will it work if he's not conscious? More importantly, how will it Resurrect him if he's dead? You can't use Powers that cost END when you've shuffled off this mortal coil.

 

And I'm still trying to figure out how having 7d6 Luck Always On is a bad thing and hence worthy of a Limitation?

[Mentor]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So the real questions are;

 

1) Is this player a relative newbie who doesn't understand the rules well enough to know what the contradictions, illegalities or imbalances are on this PC?

 

2) Is this player used to a gaming background where anything goes and someone else (GM's girlfriend, favorite child, etc.) in the campaign gets away with this kind of cheese because the relationship?

 

3) Is this player yet another "genius geek" who just knows that they are the smartest guy in the room and due to his "superior intellect" can easily manipulate the rules to create any kind of convoluted feed back loop which results in a "book legal", in his opinion, PC who is invulnerable and fearsome?

 

4) or is the player just a selfish idiot who is trying to be the center of attention in game play?

 

In any case, it seems as though you as the GM need to sit down with this player for what we in the Southern part of the country might call a "Come to Jesus" talk. Yikes.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So the real questions are;

 

1) Is this player a relative newbie who doesn't understand the rules well enough to know what the contradictions, illegalities or imbalances are on this PC?

No.

 

2) Is this player used to a gaming background where anything goes and someone else (GM's girlfriend, favorite child, etc.) in the campaign gets away with this kind of cheese because the relationship?

Yes.

 

3) Is this player yet another "genius geek" who just knows that they are the smartest guy in the room and due to his "superior intellect" can easily manipulate the rules to create any kind of convoluted feed back loop which results in a "book legal", in his opinion, PC who is invulnerable and fearsome?

Fortunately, this is not the case.

 

 

4) or is the player just a selfish idiot who is trying to be the center of attention in game play?

I don't think it is a case of this.

 

In any case, it seems as though you as the GM need to sit down with this player for what we in the Southern part of the country might call a "Come to Jesus" talk. Yikes.

I get off of work at 5:30 pm today. I have game at 7:00 pm. I need to eat in there and maybe even a quick grocery store run. But maybe Alice can go to Go Grocery for me.

 

I'll redo it to a reasonable level. I'll give him a VPP called Speedster Tricks. I'll give him a couple of skills. And when he shows up for the game I'll tell him that his character was completely unacceptable and will show him how I changed it.

 

I will let him play in that nights game using ONLY the powers as I have designed them. That if he wants to add things, they can be used for our next game after I have approved them.

 

And that is just the start.

[KA.]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Super Squirrel:

 

1) Hit this player on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

 

2) Stop this now!

I understand that you are a nice person who wants everyone to get along, but this is just silly.

New campaign rule: All characters must be created by the GM with player input.

You meet with each player, they tell you the concept, you fire up HD, and together you work out a character that fits their concept and is acceptable to you.

There is no reason on earth to go through this crap in a campaign.

There is nothing that says the player has the right to create whatever munchkin crap they want, and that the GM must somehow 'justify' their campaign limits.

It is the other way around.

You come up with what you find acceptable for your campaign, and they have to justify what they want.

 

I am not an unfair or unreasonable GM, but I would rather read a good book than try to ride herd on a group that was trying to get away with this kind of BS.

 

If you don't like taking the aggressive role, try emulating the manager from 'Office Space':

 

"Yeah, uuuummm, this character really isn't going to work in my campaign.

Did you get that memo I sent out last week about campaign limits?

I'll email you another copy of that.

And, uuuummm, you should probably get started on another character.

Yeah."

 

You don't have to fight or argue.

 

Just passively refuse to budge from what you want, or to take any action until the player meets your requirements.

 

A couple of sessions of sitting on the sidelines because their character has to be redone, and you can't do it while you are GM'ing, should either bring them in line or cause them to quit, either of which would be preferable.

 

KA.

[Scifi_Toughguy]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

*Looks at the character posted*

 

 

 

*reads responses*

 

 

*remembers is a complete newb*

 

 

Sheesh, I made a character and submitted it for a game. I cringe to see what kind of red pencil marks I'm gonna get on mine...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

*Looks at the character posted*

 

 

 

*reads responses*

 

 

*remembers is a complete newb*

 

 

Sheesh, I made a character and submitted it for a game. I cringe to see what kind of red pencil marks I'm gonna get on mine...

 

I can't speak for your game, but I generally see a big difference between honest errors by a new player and repetitive characters like the above (SS has a few prior posts about this player - it's not a new thing).

 

You could post your character here for some feedback too if you wanted - we're generally pretty nice.