Megascale Movement and Perception

[Wanderer]

5er suggests characters who have Megascale Movement to take the Megascale advantage on their senses as well, to be able to perceive where they're headed and possible obstacles.

 

Now, since the suggested solution is rather kludgy (because it involves using naked Advantages), shouldn't be alternative solutions equally effective, such as +PER to Targeting Sense(s), only When Using Megascale Movement, or adding the Telescopic Modifier to the character's Targeting Sense(s) ?

[Vondy]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

Personally, I've always ignored this suggestion.

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

I always disliked the suggested solution because, by the description of Megascale, it shouldn't work. You'd end up unable to see anything less than a KM away.

 

From a change-the-game POV, telescopic should work like Microcopic, for 10x distance per 3 points.

 

Even with the current rules, 45 points worth of Telescopic gets you +30 versus sight range mods, easily enough to go anywhere on Earth at Megascale speeds. Add Rapid and you can see perfectly the whole time. Of course, that is a lot of points...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

I always disliked the suggested solution because' date=' by the description of Megascale, it shouldn't work. You'd end up unable to see anything less than a KM away.[/quote']

 

I like to interpret this more as "you're unable to do more than see obstacles in time to avoid them", so you don't recognize your Aunt Petunia in Los Angeles as you pass through at 18,000 kph.

 

From a change-the-game POV, telescopic should work like Microcopic, for 10x distance per 3 points.

 

Even with the current rules, 45 points worth of Telescopic gets you +30 versus sight range mods, easily enough to go anywhere on Earth at Megascale speeds. Add Rapid and you can see perfectly the whole time. Of course, that is a lot of points...

 

COnsidering Megascale on my sight is only +1/4 (add for higher megascale advantages) I'm inclined to agree. Mind you, you could Link your Telescopic with theMovement (-1/2) and limit it to "Only allows avoiding obstacles" (say -1) which gets it down to 18 points.

 

Mind you, tjose limitations cold logically also apply to the naked modifier.

 

I'm inclined to see this as to much realism, however. We don't make the guy who flies at 10,000 kph buy "LS: Immune to Frisction and Air Pressure", so why should he have to pay for the ability to avoid obstacles in flight? Seems to me powers should come with enough ability that they can be used functionally.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

I like to interpret this more as "you're unable to do more than see obstacles in time to avoid them", so you don't recognize your Aunt Petunia in Los Angeles as you pass through at 18,000 kph.

 

 

 

COnsidering Megascale on my sight is only +1/4 (add for higher megascale advantages) I'm inclined to agree. Mind you, you could Link your Telescopic with theMovement (-1/2) and limit it to "Only allows avoiding obstacles" (say -1) which gets it down to 18 points.

 

Mind you, tjose limitations cold logically also apply to the naked modifier.

 

I'm inclined to see this as to much realism, however. We don't make the guy who flies at 10,000 kph buy "LS: Immune to Frisction and Air Pressure", so why should he have to pay for the ability to avoid obstacles in flight? Seems to me powers should come with enough ability that they can be used functionally.

 

Too much realism? Maybe.

I know that 5" of Flight with enough levels of Megascale including variable and 0 End can effectively give a character the ability to move at 8 times c (the speed of light!) Having some built in limitations for seeing where you are going is what balances this construct vs. a Megascale Teleport without the Safe Blind Teleport advantage.

 

The complaint about Megascale Senses causing the inability to see at normal ranges is only partially true. The example build of this ability in USPD for 7 points still costs 1 End per phase which makes it easy to turn on and off by use of existing rules. It might be a problem if you bought it 0 End.

 

HM

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

I know that 5" of Flight with enough levels of Megascale including variable and 0 End can effectively give a character the ability to move at 8 times c (the speed of light!)

 

I've considered that approach as a good reason to remove FTL in 6e. We can do it with megascale, so why bother with a separate FTL power? Set a limit for "not in atmosphere" and away we go.

 

It's also strangely in genre in Sci Fi, since every SF I can think of off the top has a "warp to hyperspace" type FTL, not just acceleration

 

Star Wars: Hyperspace

Star Trek: Warp

Babylon 5: Jump Portal/JumpGates

Stargate: Coming out of warp to see Earth

Andromeda: Slipstream

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

The complaint about Megascale Senses causing the inability to see at normal ranges is only partially true. The example build of this ability in USPD for 7 points still costs 1 End per phase which makes it easy to turn on and off by use of existing rules. It might be a problem if you bought it 0 End.

 

HM

 

Turn it on and off as much as you'd like, you should still technically be unable to see less than 1KM (or whatever) away while using it. Better not start your run on anything but a perfectly straight road.

 

The more I look at megascale, the more I think that NCM should just have its price dropped to 2 points per doubling. Saves a lot of hassle.

 

I also agree with Hugh and Von. If you've paid for super-fast running, it seems silly to have to buy a raft of additional powers to avoid a crash. The Flash does not have telescopic vision (at least he never did when I was reading him), he has Rapid Sight.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

Turn it on and off as much as you'd like, you should still technically be unable to see less than 1KM (or whatever) away while using it. Better not start your run on anything but a perfectly straight road.

 

The more I look at megascale, the more I think that NCM should just have its price dropped to 2 points per doubling. Saves a lot of hassle.

 

I also agree with Hugh and Von. If you've paid for super-fast running, it seems silly to have to buy a raft of additional powers to avoid a crash. The Flash does not have telescopic vision (at least he never did when I was reading him), he has Rapid Sight.

 

I have a problem with using Rapid Sight by itself to allow manuevering at Mega+ speeds because it fundamentally changes an ability to process incomming information at high speed into one that allows you to react to that information at high speed as well. At least with Megascale sight you can make the argument that a character is getting the information on when he needs to change his path before he is right in front of an obstacle. And the cost is more in line with its usefulness compared to Rapid. Making a speedster character pay extra for all the 'bells & whistles' is a good way to enforce schtick preservation as well.

 

HM

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

I have a problem with using Rapid Sight by itself to allow manuevering at Mega+ speeds because it fundamentally changes an ability to process incomming information at high speed into one that allows you to react to that information at high speed as well. At least with Megascale sight you can make the argument that a character is getting the information on when he needs to change his path before he is right in front of an obstacle. And the cost is more in line with its usefulness compared to Rapid. Making a speedster character pay extra for all the 'bells & whistles' is a good way to enforce schtick preservation as well.

 

HM

 

Personally, I have never seen a comic book speedster other than Superman (and clones) who arguably had megasale sight; I see it as a flavor power, and not a flavor power that fits most of the comic-book characters I'd try to simulate with mega-running. If you want to keep thing expensive for the sake of keeping them expensive, you can always require a minimum of x1000 Rapid Sight.

 

Also, how many comic book speedsters are there that can't react at higher-than-normal speeds to new information? Are they constantly breaking their ankles and smashing themselves to paste these days?

 

I could see megascale sight for something like a warp drive, though even then they generally use star charts rather than sight.

 

However, to do as thou will in your campaign shall be the whole of the law.

[David Blue]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

The more I look at megascale' date=' the more I think that NCM should just have its price dropped to 2 points per doubling. Saves a lot of hassle.[/quote']Me too.

 

I think "mega" may be a cursed preposition. "Mega-damage." Ugh! "Mega-scale!" Not good! Don't introduce a completely new (bigger) scale if you can help it. (With faster-than-light travel, I think you can't help it.) If you can continue with a well-established convention (like doubling), do so.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

I'll use both Rapid Sight and MegaScale Sight for those really fast characters, but not always.

 

Usually, a character with MegaMovement just goes really fast. If they want to avoid hitting things, they shouldn't try moving really close to anything. MegaFlight is okay, because you can just go up a few thousand feet and you only have to worry about really big terrain changes. For MegaRunning, you had better hope you've got some level open road (not recomended innercity).

 

If they want to see better while moving that fast, the character can buy Rapid Sight or MegaScale Sight.

 

Rapid Sight won't let you see what's coming, but it will let you see what's going. As in when you pass it, you can still pick out details. The stronger the Rapid Sight, the more details you can pick out.

 

MegaScale Sight works great for seeing what's up ahead in greater detail. When you are MegaRunning down the road and suddenly a mountain, MegaScale helps you find that mountain pass before you run the chance of splatting.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

As an alternative viewpoint for those Flash-level characters, perhaps they shoud buy that Round the World in 80 Microseconds power as Teleport, safe blind, only olaces he could run (probably -1/4 at best with all that Clinging ands skim water powers). They can't see miles ahead of them, yet they don't go SPLAT. There's your explanation.

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

As an alternative viewpoint for those Flash-level characters' date=' perhaps they shoud buy that Round the World in 80 Microseconds power as Teleport, safe blind, only olaces he could run (probably -1/4 at best with all that Clinging ands skim water powers). They can't see miles ahead of them, yet they don't go SPLAT. There's your explanation.[/quote']

 

Or we could resist the urge to pointlesly stat out every frickin' in-genre or SFX linked "that's just how it works" ability.

 

So, how do you build a box of tissues in Hero?

[Starwolf]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

So, how do you build a box of tissues in Hero?

 

Entangle: OAF, Only works vs Snot, 100 charges per box

[atlascott]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

What do the turn radius rules say about megascale? For standard movement, my recollection is your turn radius goes up as your speed goes up. Can a character who sees an obstacle at those speeds have the turn radius to get out of the way, anyway?

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

What do the turn radius rules say about megascale? For standard movement' date=' my recollection is your turn radius goes up as your speed goes up. Can a character who sees an obstacle at those speeds have the turn radius to get out of the way, anyway?[/quote']

 

Unless you have purchased your mega-movement with no turn radius (which is the default for running), in theory you should crash and die. Another reason to adjust the Megascale rules.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

What do the turn radius rules say about megascale? For standard movement' date=' my recollection is your turn radius goes up as your speed goes up. Can a character who sees an obstacle at those speeds have the turn radius to get out of the way, anyway?[/quote']

 

With some navigation talents and skills to use the top speed accurately this will get you anywhere on the planet in 1 phase for 103 points.

• 47 active and real points
  Flight 5" [10 active] MegaScale(1" = 1,000,000 km; +1 3/4) Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km(+1/4) [20 active] Noncombat Acceleration/Deceleration(+1) [10 active] No Turn Mode(+1/4) [2 active] Reduced End(0 End)(+1/2) [5 active]
  [0 End]
  
  • { Assuming SPD 6: Minimum Speed = 500" or ~ 1125 mph. Maximum Speed ~ 5,625,000,000 mph or 2,500,000,000 meters/second or ~ 8.34 x C or ~ 1 AU / minute }
    { C = The speed of light in vacuum = ~ 299,792,458 meters/second }
    
    

  [*]56 active and 37 real points

  MegaScale (1" = 1,000,000 km; +1 3/4) for up to 25 Active Points of Normal Sight [44 active], Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km(+1/4) [50 active] Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4); Only To Perceive The Path Ahead While Moving At MegaSpeed (-1/2)

  [5 End (to activate only)]

HM

[Sean Waters]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

I don't think you can have no turn mode when mega-moving: it is always non-combat movement. Being able to change direction at will would mean that you could effectively have combat reactions. As far as I'm concerned, non-combat movement, including mega-movement, is basically in a straight line...with only minor course variations allowed.

 

I've always thought that rapid was a far more appropriate sense modifier than mega-scale. Realistically (or as reaslistically as this can get), megascacle sight is pretty pointless: if you are in space, objects are likely to be big enough to spot a way off anyways, and if you are on a planet then you've not likely to have a long enough unobstructed line of sight to make megascale sight worthwhile anyway.

 

I'm with the camp that says having the power comes with the ability to use it effectively. If your GM is giving you grief over using your mega movement you are either pulling a fast one (PI) and trying to abuse the power OR in need of someone to hold said GM while you bitch-slap (TM Lunch Money) him.

 

In any event, we have to look at what mega-movement is. It is the ability to get from point A to point B quickly. You probably have it in a multipower with your combat movement abilies. Frankly I don't try and hang the excitement in most of my games on whether a superhero can fly to France in a heartbeat: it comes down what he finds when he gets there (baguettes and red wine, by and large....oh, and Eurostar...)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

BTW: 'Can be scaled down'. Really not keen on this as it removes practically all of the checks and balances on megascale. It only leaves one that I am aware of: no matter how much you scale down, you are still moving non-combat when using the power.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

BTW: 'Can be scaled down'. Really not keen on this as it removes practically all of the checks and balances on megascale. It only leaves one that I am aware of: no matter how much you scale down' date=' you are still moving non-combat when using the power.[/quote']

I really like "can be scaled down", and use it a lot. Then again, on a Megascaled Power that also has "can be scaled down", I generally treat the smallest value to which it can be scaled is 1" = 1km, the default for +1/4. That leaves most "checks & balances" in place, in my experience.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

I really like "can be scaled down"' date=' and use it a lot. Then again, on a Megascaled Power that also has "can be scaled down", I generally treat the smallest value to which it can be scaled is 1" = 1km, the default for +1/4. That leaves most "checks & balances" in place, in my experience. [/quote']

 

Sounds like a reasonable compromise. Mind you I don't use megascale at all, except for villainous mind control devices and such like, so I suppose I shouldn't really worry about it!

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

Sounds like a reasonable compromise. Mind you I don't use megascale at all' date=' except for villainous mind control devices and such like, so I suppose I shouldn't really worry about it![/quote']The main thing I've used it for is for charcters like speedsters, or extremely fast flyers. It's a lot more convenient than having to chuck a huge number of points into NCM.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

The main thing I've used it for is for charcters like speedsters' date=' or extremely fast flyers. It's a lot more convenient than having to chuck a huge number of points into NCM. [/quote']

 

Ah, but a lot less fun! I'm playing in a campaign where the GM designed our characters, and built the speedster so that he couldn't quite break the speed of sound. He was banned from spending points on NCM or megascale. He wound up putting all his XP into inches of running for the first six months just so he could run faster than sound, even though that was certainly not the most efficient way for the character to progress!

 

I'm not really against mega-scale: it is a useful tool, but like many useful tools, it often takes the place of one that might actually be better for the job in hand.

 

Remember The Authority when Apollo chases one of the invaders of London back to Genosha (or whatever it is called? That might have been an X-Men place ) he had to be saved from running into the force field round the island by The Doctor.

 

If he wasn't going to stop at the force field, he probably wouldn't have stopped at the island either, but we'll worry about that some other time...

 

He has megascale vision. Didn't help much...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

Unless you have purchased your mega-movement with no turn radius (which is the default for running)' date=' in theory you should crash and die. Another reason to adjust the Megascale rules.[/quote']

 

In my opinion, a reason not to fly at Mach 8 near large objects (like the surface of the planet).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Megascale Movement and Perception

 

BTW: 'Can be scaled down'. Really not keen on this as it removes practically all of the checks and balances on megascale. It only leaves one that I am aware of: no matter how much you scale down' date=' you are still moving non-combat when using the power.[/quote']

 

You can't scale it down to less than a MegaScale value though, so the minimum you can have it is 1"=1km.