Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

[Ki-rin]

An "oldie, but goodie" as they say...

 

I'm assuming a 25 Str Steve Rogers here (based on what he can and can't do in the comics) and trying to build that Giant Adamantium Frisbee (tm ) of his as accurately and efficiently as possible with the HERO system.

 

The Shield as Defense vs Ranged Attacks:

Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Usable By Others (+1/4) (25 Active Points); OIF Bulky Unbreakable Expendable (Extremely Difficult to obtain new Focus; -2), Independent (-2), Limited Coverage [61-180] Degrees (-1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

Real Cost: 4

 

The Shield as Armor:

Armor (20 PD/20 ED), Hardened (+1/4), Usable By Others (+1/4), Ranged (+1/2) (120 Active Points); OIF Bulky Unbreakable Expendable (Extremely Difficult to obtain new Focus; -2), Arrangement (-1/4), Independent (-2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Limited Coverage [61-180] Degrees (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

Real Cost:16

 

The Shield as Offense:

Energy Blast 10d6, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (75 Active Points); OIF Bulky Unbreakable Expendable (Extremely Difficult to obtain new Focus; -2), Arrangement (-1/4), Restrainable (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Range Based On Strength (-1/4)

Real Cost: 16

 

Before anyone brings up Multipower, _first_ I want to get all the individual effects of The Shield correct, _then_ I'll start thinking about how to use a Multipower to make the build more point efficient while keeping the build accurate to the source material.

 

One problem I have with the EB is that it currently does not model the fact that The Shield does not "automagically" return to Cap's hand to be rethrown. At this point I'm hand-waving and using sfx to do it, but I wouldn't mind doing better.

 

Any thoughts, ideas, or criticisms greatly appreciated.

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

The shield only returns to Cap because Cap knows how to throw it right. I'd suggest using the return feature depends on an actual skill a character needs to possess.

[fbdaury]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

HIs shield is Oif or Oaf, not OHID. The limited radius should not apply, as he can move the shield to block attacks. It is NOT a bulky focus, at least not for Cap. Remove the Independent limitation, as Cap will always get the shield back eventually through Writer's fiat, therefore he cannot permanently lose it so it is not Independent. Not sure why you put usable by others on Missle Deflection- it should be uable vs. adjacent attacks(+1/2). Remove Expendable- that implies that the focus is used up everytime the power is used.

As far as powers, A very large, no range Forcewall is much better to use than armor, as the shield absorbs the force(read stun damage) of attacks that it blocks. Shield might want to have indirect due to his skill bouncing it to hit people from the opposite direction, etc. Also, the shield should not be restrainable due to Cap's skills with shield.

[JmOz]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

The returning of the shield is one skill level dedicated to bouncing it back to him or 0 end and the f/x is it returns to his hand, your choice, my personal prefrence is the first one.

 

If I were to build it it would include the following (and yes as a MP)

 

+X DCV

XX/XX Armor (xX Hardened)

Missile Deflection, next hex

+xd6 HA

xxd6 EB (actualy I would use a Ranged HA but that is not a legal construct) 1 charge, recoverable

+xx" of leap: Downward only (-1)

 

The shield itself would be OIF

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Independent might be an appropriate limitation to take if you consider how long Steve Rogers had to use a substitute shield in place of his unique one years ago.

 

BTW, there is an excellent writeup using a multipower for a Questionite Shield on pages 100-101 of Gadgets And Gear.

 

HM

[fbdaury]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

The returning of the shield is one skill level dedicated to bouncing it back to him or 0 end and the f/x is it returns to his hand, your choice, my personal prefrence is the first one.

 

If I were to build it it would include the following (and yes as a MP)

 

+X DCV

XX/XX Armor (xX Hardened)

Missile Deflection, next hex

+xd6 HA

xxd6 EB (actualy I would use a Ranged HA but that is not a legal construct) 1 charge, recoverable

+xx" of leap: Downward only (-1)

 

The shield itself would be OIF

 

What about the shield's ability to absorb the force of a blow so that Mr. Hyde's punches don't smash him back through a wall everythime that he gets hit?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Check out the wonderful Great Net Book of Real HEROs for some 4th ed example writeups.

 

GNBoRH

 

A bunch of levels with Block would be good.

 

I wouldn't make the thrown attack "beam". He's got enough control to not do full damage to someone if he wants. And "spreading" the attack would be an easy way to simulate him hitting multiple people at once with one throw.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

What about the shield's ability to absorb the force of a blow so that Mr. Hyde's punches don't smash him back through a wall everythime that he gets hit?

6" Knockback Resistance?

[Starwolf]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

I'd say that knockback resistance is very appropriate. The shield is an alloy of adamantium and vibranium. A blow that would kill Cap won't even knock him down if he takes it on the shield. I remember an issue where cap fell from a building several stories high and was only able to survive by rolling so that the shield cushioned the fall.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

I'd say that knockback resistance is very appropriate. The shield is an alloy of adamantium and vibranium. A blow that would kill Cap won't even knock him down if he takes it on the shield. I remember an issue where cap fell from a building several stories high and was only able to survive by rolling so that the shield cushioned the fall.

 

Maybe somebody else can confirm this but I remember another recent thread where someone mentioned this same example and stated it occured when cap was using an all-vibranium replacement shield.

 

HM

[Ki-rin]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the feedback in helping me get this right...

 

HIs shield is Oif or Oaf' date=' not OHID.[/quote']

According to the source material, it is both OIF and OHID. AFAICT, Cap has _never_ used the shield's "magic tricks" unless he was in costume (Hero ID).

 

The limited radius should not apply, as he can move the shield to block attacks.

People have hit him from behind w/o the shield protecting him. There have been attacks he's been aware of where he couldn't get the shield to bear in time. It's a "real" shield, not a sfx. Therefore limiting its effective arc to the front and sides of him (his front 180') is true to the source material.

 

It is NOT a bulky focus, at least not for Cap.

By the rules of the game, a large shield the size of Cap's is Bulky.

It's not as "bulky" for Cap as it would be for a Normal Man because

a) he's strong enough to lift the back end of a car or throw a motorcycle,

it's custom designed and manufactured for him, and

c) he has a LOT of XP using it.

Nonetheless, it does make him easier to hit (but then the shield usually takes said hit.), he can't swim with it unless it's stowed on his back, he can't use it while operating most machinery or weapons, etc, etc. He might not be at 1/2 DCV using it (or maybe he is... ...his DCV is potentially that high), but it definitely is a real physical object of that size and shape and he definitely is affected by it.

 

Remove the Independent limitation, as Cap will always get the shield back eventually through Writer's fiat, therefore he cannot permanently lose it so it is not Independent.

As others have noted, he has had to go on epic multi-issue plot arcs to recover it. On a few occasions. One of Cap's "bits" is to let an innocent use the shield for protection in combat... ...and Vance Astro is _given_ it in one plot arc. Independant is a fair Dis Ad according to the source material.

 

Not sure why you put usable by others on Missle Deflection- it should be uable vs. adjacent attacks(+1/2).

One of Cap's "bits" is to give the shield to an innocent for protection. Another is to throw the shield between an attacker or an attacker's weapon (object or energy discharge) and block it... ...sometimes across the length of the battlefield. Together, these are some combination of Missile Deflection Usable By/On Others and Missile Deflection Usable At Range.

 

Remove Expendable- that implies that the focus is used up everytime the power is used.

LOL. Good point. *wryly* The Dis Ad was supposed to model "Replacability". Cap's shield is unique and AFAIK been re-made (not duplicated, reforged) _once_ in the entire history of the character despite numerous attempts to duplicate it.

 

As far as powers, A very large, no range Forcewall is much better to use than armor, as the shield absorbs the force(read stun damage) of attacks that it blocks.

??? Whether it's Armor, DR, or Forcefield, they all "absorb the force of attacks that are blocked." Both Body and STUN. I don't understand ???

 

Against ranged attacks, -nothing- is getting through the shield (as long as Missile Deflection works). For HTH, not much is getting through 20PD/20ED Resistant Hardened.

 

Or are you saying that Cap seems to take very little Knockback? Cap does take Knockback. Regularly. It's just that what little gets through the 20PD/20ED Hardened Adamantium/Vibranium shield and his 10PD/10ED armor then gets minimized by someone with outrageous Acrobatics and Breakfall rolls (with the Double Jointed Bonus thrown in for good measure- there are comics from the 1960's showing him in lotus position in his bedroom despite his size.)

Knockback Resistance might make sense if playtest shows a need for it.

 

Shield might want to have indirect due to his skill bouncing it to hit people from the opposite direction, etc

As others have said, that's probably best done as Shield Use skill and the Bouncing Manuever.

 

The shield should not be restrainable due to Cap's skills with shield.

Nah. There's ton's of source material where he can't use his shield because of his hands being restrained, or otherwise in use, or the quarters being too cramped. It's not the Focus that's restrainable, it's the user to keep them from using it, and that definitely happens to Cap frequently.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Check out the wonderful Great Net Book of Real HEROs for some 4th ed example writeups.

 

GNBoRH

Thanks!

 

A bunch of levels with Block would be good.

Those, like the ones for other Martial Manuevers, belong to =Cap=, not the shield.

 

I wouldn't make the thrown attack "beam". He's got enough control to not do full damage to someone if he wants. And "spreading" the attack would be an easy way to simulate him hitting multiple people at once with one throw.

Good point. OTOH, I want to simulate a thrown object, not the typical EB that can be spread to hit every target in an area willy-nilly. Have to think on it.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the feedback in helping me get this right...

 

 

According to the source material, it is both OIF and OHID. AFAICT, Cap has _never_ used the shield's "magic tricks" unless he wa in costume (Hero ID).

 

But he COULD.

 

People have hit him from behind w/o the shield protecting him. There have been attacks he's been aware of where he couldn't get the shield to bear in time. It's a "real" shield, not a sfx. Therefore limiting its effective arc to the front and sides of him (his front 180') is true to the source material.

 

 

By the rules of the game, a large shield the size of Cap's is Bulky.

It's not "bulky" for Cap as it would be for a Normal Man because

a) he's strong enough to lift the back end of a car or throw a motorcycle,

it's custom designed and manufactured for him, and

c) he has a LOT of XP using it.

Nonetheless, it does make him easier to hit (but then the shield usually takes said hit.), he can't swim with it unless it's stowed on his back, he can't use it while operating most machinery or weapons, etc, etc. He might not be at 1/2 DCV using it (or maybe he is... ...his DCV is potentially that high), but it definitely is a real physical object of that size and shape and he definitely is affected by it.

 

A Bulky Focus gives half DCV. Period. And you can't swim with a sword or a gun without stowing them either.

 

If it was twice the size, but Cap was permanently two hundred times the size, it would not be a Bulky Focus (for him anyway). Bulky Focuses are not just that size, they are extremely inconvenient. Having enough STR is just the REASON it is not bulky.

 

As others have noted, he has had to go on epic multi-issue plot arcs to recover it. On a few occasions. One of Cap's "bits" is to let an innocent use the shield for protection in combat... ...and Vance Astro is _given_ it in one plot arc. Independant is a fair Dis Ad according to the source material.

 

No, it is not. UNBREAKABLE is a fair 'limitation'. Read the focus rules.

Independent is not appropriate because Cap DID get it back. Just because it breaks or gets stolen (even for years) does not mean it is independent; it is only independent if it is stolen and he never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever will get it back. Period. Full stop. No, really, this isn't like dying, this is forever.

 

Independent, in the supers genre, is only really appropriate for the 'Plot Device of the Week'. You know, the things granting near-omnipotence.

 

One of Cap's "bits" is to give the shield to an innocent for protection. Another is to throw the shield between an attacker or an attacker's weapon (object or energy discharge) and block it... ...sometimes across the length of the battlefield. Together, these are some combination of Missile Deflection Usable By/On Others and Missile Deflection Usable At Range.

 

 

LOL. Good point. *wryly* The Dis Ad was supposed to model "Replacability". Cap's shield is unique and AFAIK been re-made (not duplicated, reforged) _once_ in the entire history of the character despite numerous attempts to duplicate it.

 

That's a unique Unbreakable Focus. Read the rules for unbreakable foci.

 

??? Whether it's Armor, DR, or Forcefield, they all "absorb the force of attacks that are blocked." Both Body and STUN. I don't understand ???

 

Against ranged attacks, -nothing- is getting through the shield (as long as Missile Deflection works). For HTH, not much is getting through 20PD/20ED Resistant Hardened.

 

Or are you saying that Cap seems to take very little Knockback? Cap does take Knockback . Regularly. It's just that what little gets through the 20PD/20ED Hardened Adamantium/Vibranium shield and his 10PD/10ED armor then gets minimized by someone with outrageous Acrobatics and Breakfall rolls (with the Double Jointed Bonus thrown in for good measure- there are comics firm the 1960's showing him in lotus position in his bedroom despite his size.)

Knockback Reduction might make sense if playtest shows a need for it.

 

Does he fly back twenty or thirty meters if hit on the shield?

Armour does not affect the amount of knockback you take; attacks that do not harm you at all can send you flying.

 

As others have said, that's probably best done are Shield Use skill and the Bouncing Manuever.

 

 

Nah. There's ton's of source material where he can't use his shield becuase of his hands being restrained, or otherwise in use, or the quarters being too cramped. It's not the Focus that's restrainable, it's the user to keep them from using it, and that definitely happens to Cap frequently.

 

An OAF (which it should be) cannot be used if the user is restained. You can't use a sword if your arms are tied up. Same for a shield.

[Corven_Ren]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Maybe somebody else can confirm this but I remember another recent thread where someone mentioned this same example and stated it occured when cap was using an all-vibranium replacement shield.

 

HM

 

I believe he used that shield while he was simply The Captain and wore the black costume that we now see on U.S. Agent. When he opnce again became Captain America he got his shield back and the all vibranium shield went to Agent. One other not both U.S. Agent and Taskmaster can perorm all of the tricks that Cap does with his shield.

 

I also thin some knockback resistance into it is a good idea. I have only ever seen on instance where someone holding Cap's shield was knocked back. In the Avenger's training room. Quasar took some of the fun and games took far and used his Quantum Bands to send a throw from Thor's hammer out of control. The hammer was heading straight towards T'Challa and Cap threw his shield to She-Hulk . The blow carried her back into the wall denting in firmly.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

I believe he used that shield while he was simply The Captain and wore the black costume that we now see on U.S. Agent. When he opnce again became Captain America he got his shield back and the all vibranium shield went to Agent. One other not both U.S. Agent and Taskmaster can perorm all of the tricks that Cap does with his shield.

 

I also thin some knockback resistance into it is a good idea. I have only ever seen on instance where someone holding Cap's shield was knocked back. In the Avenger's training room. Quasar took some of the fun and games took far and used his Quantum Bands to send a throw from Thor's hammer out of control. The hammer was heading straight towards T'Challa and Cap threw his shield to She-Hulk . The blow carried her back into the wall denting in firmly.

 

That sounds about right.

 

I remember an all-gear issue of Marvel Universe (1st series). It stated something like the following:

1. Adamantium as the hardest recreatable substance.
   
2. Vibranium was a close second. Vibranium in pure form could stop all momentum up to a certain energy level before shattering.
   
3. Cap's shield, being made of an alloy of both, has properties of both. It might be immune to magnetism (have to dig up Secret Wars I to be sure) which is not the case with adamantium. It is good at reducing impact momentum but not as good as vibranium (but it is harder, which is a fair tradeoff).
   

HM

[JmOz]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

I'd say that knockback resistance is very appropriate. The shield is an alloy of adamantium and vibranium. A blow that would kill Cap won't even knock him down if he takes it on the shield. I remember an issue where cap fell from a building several stories high and was only able to survive by rolling so that the shield cushioned the fall.

 

Comic Geek Moment:

It is a combination of vibranium and Steel which is stronger than adamantium. Adamantium is an attempt to reproduce the shield (with limited success)

[Ki-rin]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

But he COULD (use the shield out of uniform so therefore it does not have the OHID Dis Ad).

Since he never has in any of the documentation of the _decades_ he's been active, I choose to assume he can't rather than won't.

 

 

A Bulky Focus gives half DCV. Period.

Great. You've got a better than 1/216 chance of hitting him (and his shield) now. Which turns him game-wise instantly from nigh impossible to hit into nigh impossible to damage. Darn good simulation of what happens in the source material.

 

If it was twice the size, but Cap was permanently two hundred times the size, it would not be a Bulky Focus (for him anyway). Bulky Focuses are not just that size, they are extremely inconvenient. Having enough STR is just the REASON it is not bulky.

Problem here is that we probably want something that is less than Bulky but more than nothing. We don't have it, so I'm doing the best I can with what we've got. Bulky is (-1/2). I may additionally invent a milder House Rule with a (-1/4) modifier.

 

Independent is not appropriate because Cap DID get it back. Just because it breaks or gets stolen (even for years) does not mean it is independent; it is only independent if it is stolen and he never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever will get it back. Period. Full stop. No, really, this isn't like dying, this is forever.

...Or did he re-earn the XP needed to effectively have another one? The plot lines in question were that long and that intense.

 

No, it (Independent) is not (fair). UNBREAKABLE is a fair 'limitation'.

 

Independent, in the supers genre, is only really appropriate for the 'Plot Device of the Week'. You know, the things granting near-omnipotence.

Interesting philosophical view. I don't agree, but interesting nonetheless.

 

 

That's a unique Unbreakable Focus. Read the rules for foci.

Thank you, I am aware of the focus design rules. Unfortunately, "Unique" isn't a game construct in HD 2.41 AFAICT. So I made do the best I could.

 

Does he fly back twenty or thirty meters if hit on the shield?

Armour does not affect the amount of knockback you take; attacks that do not harm you at all can send you flying.

Yep they can. Unless you Brace, and/or use the MA manuever Root, and/or make your Acrobatic Breakfall roll. Which is exactly what Cap does regularly.

He still gets Knocked Back by super strong bricks like Hulk on occasion, he just is a graceful undamaged ballistic object.

 

An OAF (which it should be) cannot be used if the user is restained. You can't use a sword if your arms are tied up. Same for a shield.

Quotes from the book: "An Accessible Focus is one that is easily taken away." "An Inaccessible Focus cannot be removed if the character is struggling or resisting." Is it "easy" to take Cap's shield from him when he's using it? Ummm. NO. It's an OIF.

 

Whether you can use a focus while restrained or not has nothing to do with it being Obvious or Inobvious, nor does it have anything to do with being Accessible or Inaccessible. That's why "Restrainable (-1/2)" exists as a Dis Ad independant of the Focus Dis Ad.

[fbdaury]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the feedback in helping me get this right...

 

Thanks for completely disregarding my feedback, good to know you actually want the help that you ask for.

According to the source material, it is both OIF and OHID. AFAICT, Cap has _never_ used the shield's "magic tricks" unless he was in costume (Hero ID).

 

Just because he doesn't to protect his secret ID does not mean he CAN'T. Oihid represents a powersuit that cannot be reomved or Billy Batson truning into Captain Marvel, not this.

People have hit him from behind w/o the shield protecting him. There have been attacks he's been aware of where he couldn't get the shield to bear in time. It's a "real" shield, not a sfx. Therefore limiting its effective arc to the front and sides of him (his front 180') is true to the source material.

 

The disadvantage "Must be Aware of attacks"(-1/2) would then be more appropriate.

By the rules of the game, a large shield the size of Cap's is Bulky.

It's not as "bulky" for Cap as it would be for a Normal Man because

a) he's strong enough to lift the back end of a car or throw a motorcycle,

it's custom designed and manufactured for him, and

c) he has a LOT of XP using it.

Nonetheless, it does make him easier to hit (but then the shield usually takes said hit.), he can't swim with it unless it's stowed on his back, he can't use it while operating most machinery or weapons, etc, etc. He might not be at 1/2 DCV using it (or maybe he is... ...his DCV is potentially that high), but it definitely is a real physical object of that size and shape and he definitely is affected by it.

 

The Shield is not that big and is not bulky, bulky is a m60 machinegun or a shoulder-fired rocket.

As others have noted, he has had to go on epic multi-issue plot arcs to recover it. On a few occasions. One of Cap's "bits" is to let an innocent use the shield for protection in combat... ...and Vance Astro is _given_ it in one plot arc. Independant is a fair Dis Ad according to the source material.

As I said though, he ALWAYS gets it back, and he ALWAYS will - that's why it is not Independent.

 

One of Cap's "bits" is to give the shield to an innocent for protection. Another is to throw the shield between an attacker or an attacker's weapon (object or energy discharge) and block it... ...sometimes across the length of the battlefield. Together, these are some combination of Missile Deflection Usable By/On Others and Missile Deflection Usable At Range.

 

Actually, it sounds exactly like the +1 version of usable at range for Missle Deflection, but nice try.

 

??? Whether it's Armor, DR, or Forcefield, they all "absorb the force of attacks that are blocked." Both Body and STUN. I don't understand ???

 

Against ranged attacks, -nothing- is getting through the shield (as long as Missile Deflection works). For HTH, not much is getting through 20PD/20ED Resistant Hardened.

 

Or are you saying that Cap seems to take very little Knockback? Cap does take Knockback. Regularly. It's just that what little gets through the 20PD/20ED Hardened Adamantium/Vibranium shield and his 10PD/10ED armor then gets minimized by someone with outrageous Acrobatics and Breakfall rolls (with the Double Jointed Bonus thrown in for good measure- there are comics from the 1960's showing him in lotus position in his bedroom despite his size.)

Knockback Resistance might make sense if playtest shows a need for it.

 

Cap gets hit with a 20d6 attack, fairly common for him- 20/20 armor will stop the body but Cap will take, on average roll, 40 points stun (20x3.5=70-20-10[from PD]= 40) Cap's stunned or unconcious after one hit! 20/20 forcewall, on the other hand, x2 hardened, will completly stop both the body AND the stun from said attack, thus better modeling how the shield actually works.

 

As others have said, that's probably best done as Shield Use skill and the Bouncing Manuever.

 

 

Nah. There's ton's of source material where he can't use his shield because of his hands being restrained, or otherwise in use, or the quarters being too cramped. It's not the Focus that's restrainable, it's the user to keep them from using it, and that definitely happens to Cap frequently.

 

Yeah, it's called reasonable extrapolation of SFX for his powers, not a seperate and rarely applied limitation.

[fbdaury]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Comic Geek Moment:

It is a combination of vibranium and Steel which is stronger than adamantium. Adamantium is an attempt to reproduce the shield (with limited success)

 

Actually, it has been said to be both, but the Admantium/Vibranium one is the more commonly used one and the one that I run with, YMMV.

[Fox1]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

According to the source material' date=' it is both OIF and OHID. AFAICT, Cap has _never_ used the shield's "magic tricks" unless he was in costume (Hero ID).[/quote']

 

Hmm.

 

If it counts as both OIF and OHID, so would any focus specific to any character upon display/use. I've always assumed that if it can be carried (not necessary used) in disguise, that only the focus part applies.

 

And I should point at that the Shields is a HUGE FREAKN' RED, WHITE AND BLUE SYMBOL of America's greatest hero. One that in and of itself likely to be instantly identified by more people than anything else in the world with the possible exception of Coke. If it's being used, he is in Hero ID.

 

 

For what it's worth I have seen Cap use a simple garage lid to a) strike at range, block, and c) missile deflect all in street clothes.

 

To almost quote the good Captain: "The shield is not Captain America, I'm Captain America". Something to remember when contructing the Shield, it enhances more abilities of his and it has of it's own.

[Fox1]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

The Shield is not that big and is not bulky' date=' bulky is a m60 machinegun or a shoulder-fired rocket.[/quote']

 

It certainly isn't for Cap, he hides the thing under a jacket all the time

 

 

 

As I said though, he ALWAYS gets it back, and he ALWAYS will - that's why it is not Independent.

 

I agree with you on this point. Are people really saying that Cap losses the XP when he loses the shield and has to re-earn it all before he can get it back?

 

Seems to be a classic case of attempting to buy the storyline in points instead of the power to me.

 

 

 

One thing about this thread, it shows how very differently others see the character and how they'd buy his Shield. The write-up I did was very different from these.

 

Such is the wonder of different PoV and HERO System.

 

It's also why I won't publish my character constructions. It would only result in threads like these.

[Adventus]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Actually' date=' it has been said to be both, but the Admantium/Vibranium one is the more commonly used one and the one that I run with, YMMV.[/quote']

 

True comic book geek moment: Cap's shield is made from Vibranium, Adamantium and an unknown third metal. Which is why no one has ever recreated his shield. And it has been destroyed twice. Once in Secret Wars and about 5 years later when the error he put in it caused it to fracture. He also jumped 20 stories and landed on his shield, And said it was like stepping off a high curb. It was his true shield. not the Pure Vibranium one.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

Thanks for completely disregarding my feedback, good to know you actually want the help that you ask for.

"Disagree" is not the same as "Disregard", regardless of how common it is to use the two interchangeably. Both your comments and WhammeWhamme's provoked thought on my part and will most likely result in some changes to the character write-up. If that's your definitioan of "disregard", then you are confused. If you think the only two choices are that others must agree with you 100% or they are "disregarding" your opinion, then you are in for a very disappointing and bitter life.

 

Just because he doesn't (use the shield) to protect his secret ID does not mean he CAN'T. OHID represents a powersuit that cannot be removed or Billy Batson truning into Captain Marvel, not this.

Those are +some+ sfx represented by OHID. Given the source material, I decided there are some things he -can't- do unless he's wearing the outfit. Maybe street clothes are too restrictive. Maybe he needs those gloves to be able to do many of the Shield Tricks without ripping his hands to shreds. Etc, etc. The source material indicates he doesn't do it even when he's in a group that knows his ID it therefore is not the issue. I've chosen to interpret the evidence as implying he can't. Your narrative or simulation style may lead you to interpret differently. Fair Enough.

 

The disadvantage "Must be Aware of attacks"(-1/2) would then be more appropriate.

My first thought as well. Except it has protected unconscious body's, including Cap's, before. So...

 

The Shield is not that big and is not bulky, bulky is a m60 machinegun or a shoulder-fired rocket.

It completely covers the back of a 6'4"-6'6" ~300lb wall of solid muscle when Steve has it on his back. It is both weighty and unwieldy enough to have a major impact on his movement as a frequent plot device. Nonetheless, I've already posted that a (-1/4) Limitation modelling less encumberance would probably be more accurate.

 

As I said though, he ALWAYS gets it back, and he ALWAYS will - that's why it is not Independent.

...Or he loses it and has to re-earn the XP to get his unique item back. Valid either way system wise. You say Pah-taa-tow...

 

Originally Posted by Ki-rin

One of Cap's "bits" is to give the shield to an innocent for protection. Another is to throw the shield between an attacker or an attacker's weapon (object or energy discharge) and block it... ...sometimes across the length of the battlefield. Together, these are some combination of Missile Deflection Usable By/On Others and Missile Deflection Usable At Range.

 

Actually, it sounds exactly like the +1 version of usable at range for Missle Deflection, but nice try.

Usable at Range allows =Cap= to use Missile Deflection at Range. It does not allow =someone else= to use Cap's shield to Missile Deflect. That is Usable By Others and/or Independant. To be safe I used both.

 

Cap gets hit with a 20d6 attack, fairly common for him- 20/20 armor will stop the body but Cap will take, on average roll, 20x3.5=70-20-10[from PD]= 40 STUN. Cap's stunned or unconcious after one hit! 20/20 forcewall, on the other hand, x2 hardened, will completly stop both the body AND the stun from said attack, thus better modeling how the shield actually works.

First, 20d6= 100AP at a minimum attacks are not "fairly common" in all campaigns. That is campaign specific. In such a campaign, Cap would be appropriately improved. (Def will be ~2x the Campaign average attack. Con, Body, REC, and STUN will be higher. Cap's attack will be improved. Etc, etc.)

 

Second, Cap's shield is not a Force Wall. It's a physical object that he does some amazing things with, but it is not a Force Wall. Force Wall may be a "better" Power Gamer approach to building Cap's Shield, but it's not accurate to the source material. We have a different approach to this aspect of gaming.

 

Third, x2 Hardened is not getting into most campaigns. Although you may very well need it when the "fairly common" attack is 20d6

 

Fourth, any ranged attack will very likely do NO damage. That's what Missile Deflection is for after all. So the only thing under discussion here is a HTH attack of this size against this version of Cap's defenses.

 

Fifth, how low do you think Cap's Con, Body, REC, and STUN are? Given the evidence in the source material, it's quite reasonable to assume Cap has quite high values for REC and STUN (say 13 and 63) and not too shabby for Con and Body either (say _high_ for Con... ...he's like the Energizer Bunny in that he just keeps going and going and etc... ...but it could be only 25 in some interpetations, and ~25 for Body). And that's if he decides to use the shield and make himself easier to hit instead of doing the smart thing and just not letting you hit him.

 

Sixth, in most campaigns Cap is wearing ~10PD/10ED Armor in addition to the 20/20 shield and his 10/10 (nonresistant) personal stats that you gave him. So he'll take something like 30 STUN... ...If a) that is a HTH attack that hit AND he is that poorly protected AND c) he has too low stats... ...in a campaign where 20d6 attacks are "fairly common".

 

 

There's ton's of source material where he can't use his shield because of his hands being restrained, or otherwise in use, or the quarters being too cramped. It's not the Focus that's restrainable, it's the user to keep them from using it, and that definitely happens to Cap frequently.

 

Yeah, it's called reasonable extrapolation of SFX for his powers, not a seperate and rarely applied limitation.

You evidently like to use sfx more than I do. I like to nail things down as much and as clearly as I can and only rely on GM sfx as a last resort. After all, the GM is _not_ there to be a player's ally, they're the opposition...

 

...and if you think I carefully write this much back to those I'm "disregarding"...

[JmOz]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

 

True comic book geek moment: Cap's shield is made from Vibranium, Adamantium and an unknown third metal. Which is why no one has ever recreated his shield. And it has been destroyed twice. Once in Secret Wars and about 5 years later when the error he put in it caused it to fracture. He also jumped 20 stories and landed on his shield, And said it was like stepping off a high curb. It was his true shield. not the Pure Vibranium one.

 

Adventus made me look it up

 

I was wrong

 

the shield did have an unknonw factor (I knew that actualy, it is why it had not been reproduced)

 

However the shield used IRON not Steel like I said

 

So: Iron/Vibranium/unknown

 

I thought US Agent's was Adamantium not Vibranium

 

All should be considered unbreakable

 

Thus if destroyed the character can go on a quest to restore them (Such as cap did about 5 years ago)

[Fox1]

Re: Best way to Build Cap's Shield?

 

True comic book geek moment: Cap's shield is made from Vibranium' date=' Adamantium and an unknown third metal. [/quote']

 

In the day I kept up with the comic is was not an unknown third metal. It was a unknown factor.

 

I doubt it was ever stated, but I took that and some other events in the comic to indicate that the shield was brought into existance specifically for Steve Rogers. The who or what behind that was left to the reader.