Favorite Abuse

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

I consider this an oversimplification. If ECV is only one stat' date=' does that mean you can't have levels with mental powers, or that a 3 point level with Ego Blast adds to both offensive and defensive ECV?[/quote']

 

You can still have levels with Mental Powers. 2 point levels only add to OECV, and 5 and 8 point levels would apply as Von D-Man explains. 3 points levels get kinda wonky and it really depens on how they are bought.

 

It is confusing though. Are mind games fun?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Number one is probably tuneable shields (OK: been mentioned, but this takes it rather further - especially the quad hardened slots!)

 

Multipower (40 points)

8m 40PD FF

8m 40ED FF

4m 20Power DEF

4m 20Flash DEF

8m 40 Mental DEF

4m 10 quad hardened PD

4m 10 quad hardened ED

4u 16PD/16ED half END FF

 

Cost: 76 points

 

Against individual opponents you are absolute mustard, and it keeps the points well within active points limits.

 

The munchkin one would be and Hand Attack power construct with advantages. Oh hang on, that's perfectly legal and acceptable...hmmm...

 

BTW: When I saw the title of the thread, I wondered why anyone would really need to simulate that in HERO: perhaps a disadvantage if there was an element of compulsion and lack of control: is onanism on the Master Disadvantages List?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

This started with:

 

Flight 20" x8 ncm (160" noncombat)

Telescopic Sight +10

Ego Attack xd6

 

Combat starts. Fly at noncombat 80" away from combat as a half move then Ego Attack the target of your choice as full ECV. Sure, your OCV is 0... but not your ECV. And now everyone is a -10 to hit you, or even see where you went, so those buggers with No Range Mod attacks will be stuck for a Phase while you blast them.

 

When someone stated they would rule your OECV was also zero, the response was:

 

I would disagree for two reasons. 1' date=' the book doesn't say anything about recuding ECV. 2, ECV is a single CV, and I wouldn't allow a mentalist an easier chance to hit a character moving noncombat. You also can't reduce ECV to both 1/2 and 0... you'd have to pick one. So I pick neither, and say it's at full, just like when you are Stunned, prone or at any other condition that reduces your CV (while conscious).[/quote']

 

I would stress your specific comment that "ECV is a single CV", and go on to argue you can't reduce it by both 0 (OCV) and 1./2 (DCV).

 

Now you say:

 

You can still have levels with Mental Powers. 2 point levels only add to OECV' date=' and 5 and 8 point levels would apply as Von D-Man explains. 3 points levels get kinda wonky and it really depens on how they are bought.[/quote']

 

Now, the above seems to say OECV is a separate CV from DECV.

 

So basically, if I read all your comments together, your premise is that OECV can be enhanced separately from DECV, but cannot be reduced separate from DECV. Can you summarize your interpretation in this regard?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Hmn. N-Ray vision, tunneling and an indirect EB NND does BODY, if we are looking at combination powers. Goodnight.

[OddHat]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

This started with:

 

 

 

When someone stated they would rule your OECV was also zero, the response was:

 

 

 

I would stress your specific comment that "ECV is a single CV", and go on to argue you can't reduce it by both 0 (OCV) and 1./2 (DCV).

 

Now you say:

 

 

 

Now, the above seems to say OECV is a separate CV from DECV.

 

So basically, if I read all your comments together, your premise is that OECV can be enhanced separately from DECV, but cannot be reduced separate from DECV. Can you summarize your interpretation in this regard?

 

Related issue, but Ego powers have a range of LOS, and take no range mods. I'd guess that they would not be reduced by NC flight, but that would be very abusive. I'll post it as a question to Steve.

[OddHat]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

5thER, p.363- OECV and DECV are both affected in the exact same way as OCV and DCV by non-combat movement.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

I kinda like my alternate build for Lightsleep:

Life Support: doesn't need to sleep;

Trigger: variable wake-up condition (+1/2);

Costs End (-1/2);

Extra Time: 1 minute (I forget the value);

Increased End Cost: x10 (-4)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

I kinda like my alternate build for Lightsleep:

Life Support: doesn't need to sleep;

Trigger: variable wake-up condition (+1/2);

Costs End (-1/2);

Extra Time: 1 minute (I forget the value);

Increased End Cost: x10 (-4)

 

So it takes you ages to wake up, and when you do you're exhausted?

 

Certainly alternative...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

So it takes you ages to wake up, and when you do you're exhausted?

 

Certainly alternative...

Nope. All those Limitations apply when you set the Trigger.

[David Blue]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Increased End Cost: x10 (-4)

 

I take it this is Grond's wind-up alarm clock.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Increased End Cost: x10 (-4)

 

I take it this is Grond's wind-up alarm clock.

Hmm? Not at all. It was an alternate version of the Lightsleep Talent I created with 5E first came out. When going to sleep, the character concentrates very hard on the circumstances (s)he wants to cause him/her to wake up.

 

There is actually a slight logical flaw to the construct. I'm wondering if and when someone will find it....

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

So basically' date=' if I read all your comments together, your premise is that OECV can be enhanced separately from DECV, but cannot be reduced separate from DECV. Can you summarize your interpretation in this regard?[/quote']

 

Yes.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

5thER' date=' p.363- OECV and DECV are both affected in the exact same way as OCV and DCV by non-combat movement.[/quote']

 

damn balance issues...

 

Well, like a lot of things Hero, it might not make sense, but it's balanced.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Nope. All those Limitations apply when you set the Trigger.

 

Makes sense. With all that END you spend it should knock you right out!

[Jhamin]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

I kind of like the one where you buy rarely needed powers as Favors.

 

For example: Instead of Healing w/ressurection, buy Favor: Angel of Death & cash in to ask him to not take one of your buddies.

[Beastial]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Contact: Heaven 16- 7pts

+3 Extremely usefull skills/resources (how's [omnipotent/owns the universe] grab you?)

+1 access to major institutions (all of them)

+1 significant contacts of their own (everyone)

+2 good relationship

 

x3 Organization contact

 

39 points to have heaven roll out the proverbial red carpet every time you call.

 

 

These same stats could apply to any Really Powerful organization in a campaign. USA Armed Forces, VIPER, whatever. For an extra three points, you could kick it up to "slavishly loyal"... but that really didn't feel appropriate for the "heaven" angle. Take this, and the "Head of State" perk. Call yourself "Mr. President"... For additional authenticity, sell back a bunch of INT!

[Markdoc]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Actually the second-most most abusive character, I've ever played would slide past most GMs. A simple Brick with high DEX/SPD and moderate/high defences, masses of STR and all powers/stat.s bought in "only in Hero form" - a time honoured archetype. Easily outclassed any other character in the group in combat prowess - probably outclassed all of them in a group, if we had fought it out.

 

Not *really* abusive, but really annoying: damage reduction combined with a triggered healing Aid, continuous. Character was nicknamed Weeble by the GM - he wobbles, but he doesn't fall down (actually he would fall down if hit with lots of attacks so he didn't have time to reset his trigger, but in general...)

 

More abusive - a character with Aid (all physical Char) an increased maximum and a long return time, bought with damage shield. Fails the +2 in advantages requirement, but the character was fun to play - the more you hit him - and he hit you - the stronger, faster and tougher he got. I think from memory he maxed out at +50 points on all physical stat.s. That was the only power he had, but you had to take him out fast in any fight while he was still wimpy.

 

Nothing, however, is more horrible in my experience than movement powers usable as an attack at range. Especially megascale tunnelling, or X-D teleport.

 

cheers

[OddHat]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Actually the second-most most abusive character, I've ever played would slide past most GMs. A simple Brick with high DEX/SPD and moderate/high defences, masses of STR and all powers/stat.s bought in "only in Hero form" - a time honoured archetype. Easily outclassed any other character in the group in combat prowess - probably outclassed all of them in a group, if we had fought it out.

 

Not *really* abusive, but really annoying: damage reduction combined with a triggered healing Aid, continuous. Character was nicknamed Weeble by the GM - he wobbles, but he doesn't fall down (actually he would fall down if hit with lots of attacks so he didn't have time to reset his trigger, but in general...)

 

More abusive - a character with Aid (all physical Char) an increased maximum and a long return time, bought with damage shield. Fails the +2 in advantages requirement, but the character was fun to play - the more you hit him - and he hit you - the stronger, faster and tougher he got. I think from memory he maxed out at +50 points on all physical stat.s. That was the only power he had, but you had to take him out fast in any fight while he was still wimpy.

 

Yup. There are few straight builds more powerful in Hero than a pure characteristic based Dex-Brick, with just enough powers to cover the areas characteristics can't. Adjustment powers at the "All Powers" level are also very easy to abuse.

[David Blue]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

I kinda like my alternate build for Lightsleep:

Life Support: doesn't need to sleep;

Trigger: variable wake-up condition (+1/2);

Costs End (-1/2);

Extra Time: 1 minute (I forget the value);

Increased End Cost: x10 (-4)

Out of curiosity: do you think you can continue to sleep even if you no longer suffer the necessity to do so?

 

I would say yes, just as you can eat even if you have life support and don't need to eat.

[OddHat]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Additional: Penalty levels versus hit locations are insanely overpowered for the price.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Nothing, however, is more horrible in my experience than movement powers usable as an attack at range. Especially megascale tunnelling, or X-D teleport.

 

cheers

 

Like, say...

 

Go To Hell: Tunneling 2" through 8 DEF material, MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1)

 

Well, it is 77 Active Points, but if it hits, the target isn't likely to come back unless they can survive in magma flowing 2km below the surface of the earth, and can get back from there.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Out of curiosity: do you think you can continue to sleep even if you no longer suffer the necessity to do so?

 

I would say yes, just as you can eat even if you have life support and don't need to eat.

Good catch. That was the slight logical flaw I was talking about (rep!). However, it is one of those that might be easy to slip past many GMs. It could also work if you allow a slightly different interpretation based on SFX.

 

The other thing you can do is add in a Linked 1-hex Flight with the Adder that lets you return to your feet and the same Trigger, Limit it so that it can only return you to your feet, and have an assured wake-up call!

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Like, say...

 

Go To Hell: Tunneling 2" through 8 DEF material, MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1)

 

Well, it is 77 Active Points, but if it hits, the target isn't likely to come back unless they can survive in magma flowing 2km below the surface of the earth, and can get back from there.

Shoot! Use Teleport instead! Why give them a potential hole to come back out of, or worry about the whole problem of creating volcanos? Besides, they just might take the Teleport damage as an added plus!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Shoot! Use Teleport instead! Why give them a potential hole to come back out of' date=' or worry about the whole problem of creating volcanos? Besides, they just might take the Teleport damage as an added plus! [/quote']

 

Because you can't teleport other things or people into solid objects. They bounce right back (or to the nearest "safe" hex) without taking any damage.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

For 175 points, you can have every person on earth with 50 points or less as a follower.

 

50/5 = 10

+165 for doublings up to 8 billion.