Favorite Abuse

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

There are some okay abuses here, but nothing too dramatic.

 

I like the "Tower".

 

3D6 Entangle

Autofire x10 (+3/4)

Continuous (+1)

0 End (+1)

Personal Immunity (+1/4)

No Range (-1/2)

 

Shoot yourself with it on segment 12. Now you're Entangled, but you can still fire out of it (and move out of it if you want). You've got what is effectively a Force Wall around you that increases by 10 Body each phase. You won't take any Stun until they destroy the Entangle.

Hmm. Not sure you can fire out of it. Just because you are immune to the Entagle doesn't mean that it is invisible to your Powers. You might just destroy your own defense even though it isn't hampering your movement. It sounds like an easy balancing factor for a GM to employ on the fly anyway.

[Zed-F]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Or you can take TK, or buy your power indirect, just as you would with force wall.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

No' date=' mumbling is for, "You don't need to see our papers... these are not the droids you're looking for... move along." Showing off your flashy light sabre technique [i']Extract the Sardine From the Can[/i] on two of them, then PRE Attacking them, that's how you do it.

 

It's hard to find a 350 point write up of a character that can perform such a maneuver and remain conscious long enough to perform the PRE attack, and have the points left over the jedi tricks multipower.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

There are some okay abuses here, but nothing too dramatic.

 

I like the "Tower".

 

3D6 Entangle

Autofire x10 (+3/4)

Continuous (+1)

0 End (+1)

Personal Immunity (+1/4)

No Range (-1/2)

 

Shoot yourself with it on segment 12. Now you're Entangled, but you can still fire out of it (and move out of it if you want). You've got what is effectively a Force Wall around you that increases by 10 Body each phase. You won't take any Stun until they destroy the Entangle.

 

PI doesn't work that way. It just means you can't shoot yourself with it (which kinda defeats the purpose of the construct). On top of that, you still take STUN through an Entangle. It's DEF+BODY simply add to your defenses until it runs out of BODY.

 

You can, however, forget the PI and just put of a barrier. That way you've still got cover and your full DCV if someone should circumvent the barrier. You also don't have to have an Indirect attack, as you can just use the barrier for partial cover or making Snap Shots. If you feel lucky, you can also build the Entangle Takes No Damage From Specific SFX and pick the SFX of your attack. The big downside if an opponent also has that SFX you've got no cover at all.

[Guest C--]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

PI doesn't work that way. It just means you can't shoot yourself with it (which kinda defeats the purpose of the construct). On top of that' date=' you still take STUN through an Entangle. It's DEF+BODY simply add to your defenses until it runs out of BODY.[/quote']

 

Duh. Of course you can still take Stun. I was trying to post fast and wasn't thinking. However, I'm fairly certain you can still shoot yourself with a PI attack. You just don't get affected by it. I don't have my book handy.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Duh. Of course you can still take Stun. I was trying to post fast and wasn't thinking. However' date=' I'm fairly certain you can still shoot yourself with a PI attack. You just don't get affected by it. I don't have my book handy.[/quote']

 

Well, I suppose you could shoot yourself with it, but the Entangle would just have no effect (not hinder or protect you)

[Guest C--]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Well' date=' I suppose you could shoot yourself with it, but the Entangle would just have no effect (not hinder [i']or[/i] protect you)

 

Except that you'd have a 1 hex hunk of Entangle sitting there (which is the idea). It basically forms a barrier that you choose to stand in the middle of (that's the idea, anyway). Sort of "Personal Immunity as represented by clipping error".

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Except that you'd have a 1 hex hunk of Entangle sitting there (which is the idea). It basically forms a barrier that you choose to stand in the middle of (that's the idea' date=' anyway). Sort of "Personal Immunity as represented by clipping error".[/quote']

 

I see. Then no, you definately don't need Personal Immunity, just Can Only Form Barriers. Just use it twice (one use can over three hex sides, unless the GM allows you to use the rules for spreading) and you're good. The problem is that there is no way around it being a barrier to both you and your opponents, otherwise you could easily put PI on Force Wall for the same effect (and it can move with you).

[TheEmerged]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

RE: Autofire Entangle. I adopted a house rule on this one a long time ago: an Entangle can never have more BODY than it could potentially have from a perfect roll: a 3d6 Entangle for example can never have more than 6 BODY; a 3d6 Entangle with the +d6 adder could go to 8 BODY, or 10 BODY if you have it twice, or 12 BODY if you had it the maximum 3 times.

[laxrulz777]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Thought of another one which seems to be strictly rules-legal:

 

AVLD vs Radar Flash DEF

 

How many people buy Flash DEF for the Radar Sense Group? Most don't even have a Radar Sense at all.

 

I think if I had a player try that I'd either A) veto it outright or tell them that it will only work against someone with at least one radar based sense...

 

Not sure what I'd do against someone who did AVLD touch sense flash defense (millions of tiny needles perhaps)

[Dust Raven]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

RE: Autofire Entangle. I adopted a house rule on this one a long time ago: an Entangle can never have more BODY than it could potentially have from a perfect roll: a 3d6 Entangle for example can never have more than 6 BODY; a 3d6 Entangle with the +d6 adder could go to 8 BODY' date=' or 10 BODY if you have it twice, or 12 BODY if you had it the maximum 3 times.[/quote']

 

Do you still use the larger of the two if the Entangles are different?

 

An interesting idea, in any case, would be to throw a high BODY, low DEF Entangle at someone, then hit them with an Autofire high DEF, low BODY Entangle. The extra Entangles will only add one BODY per hit, but the highest DEF of all Entangles are used as the total DEF of it all. Because the Entangled chracter is at 0 DCV from the first Entangle, the Autofire should have no problem hitting will all shots (or most shots if bought up to x10).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Do you still use the larger of the two if the Entangles are different?

 

An interesting idea, in any case, would be to throw a high BODY, low DEF Entangle at someone, then hit them with an Autofire high DEF, low BODY Entangle. The extra Entangles will only add one BODY per hit, but the highest DEF of all Entangles are used as the total DEF of it all. Because the Entangled chracter is at 0 DCV from the first Entangle, the Autofire should have no problem hitting will all shots (or most shots if bought up to x10).

Either you'd have to be really fast and get them with two hits before they get a Phase, or that first Entangle would have to be big enough to hold them for at least one Phase anyway. If you did it as a Multi-Power attack, they wouldn't be at 0 DCV due to the one Entangle when the other hit. I guess you could do it with a teammate and coordinate the timing of your attacks, though.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

I'm replicating several I've already seen but...

 

N-Ray Vision + Telescopic Sight + NND/AVLD (only effects organic material)(No Range Penalty)(Indirect - away from attacker) = Microwave, the villain who shoots you through buildings from blocks away and boils you from the inside out.

 

Duplication (64 duplicates) + Mind Link (one mind) + a nice gun with scope (12d6 Autofire + 2 Ranged Skill Levels) = Myriad Man, The villain who shoots you... and shoots you... and shoots you... all at the same time. Mind Link allows assured Coordinated Attacks (vs Ego Roll perhaps?) which gives Myriad Man a defender at 1/2 DCV and (assuming the defender is well protected at 30 ED and each Myriad Man only hits once with Autofire) an average of 768 STUN (after defenses). Ouch

 

 

The PYM PULVERIZER:

 

Elemental Cont: Size Manipulation

60 active points Shrinking

60 active points Growth

AE HEX on STR when grown

 

Get real small (.032m)... under the chin of an opponent (you would have a -12 PER roll against so being seen isn't likely)... Then GROW!!!!!! ALL THE WAY!!!!!

 

POW, TO THE MOON!

 

STR = 70 (14d6 HTH) + Growth Momentum (from .032meters to 32meters = + 20d6) for a total of 34d6 AE HEX HTH!

 

I'm embarrassed to admit it but my current character (Dr. Sebastian Castle = Bastion) is based on growth powers and has used this tactic at least twice. Bastion's powers are derived from a complex mechanism of his own creation that manipulates subatomic chromodynamic forces (it’s actually real science). Utilizing the Chromo-Dial, a complex Chromo-Field projector worn around his waist, Bastion is able to manipulate his size and mass from subatomic to gigantic. Yup, that means his powers are also Focus based.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

I had a whopper of an idea earlier while reading one of the EC threads. Someone mentioned that MP's are often dedicated to either offence or movememt. It occured to me that there is a huge potential abuse here..

lets make a character with, say, mystic gauntlets. Make them a MP at the campaign AP limit. Give them a variety of interesting attacks, movement powers and defences. make the offence fixed slots, while the others are variables.

Heres the abusive part.

spend the +5 points to have two of them.

Now, you have 2 identical multis that allow you massive combat flexibility, including the ability to do multi-power attacks with different offensive slots.

This strikes me as just sick.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Ah, yes - the Mandarin approach...

 

 

Multipower of, say, 10 60 point attacks (120 points; OIF Rings = 80 points)

256 of them (+40 points for 8 doublings). Give each one 16 charges (or just make them 0 END for an extra 40 points).

 

Multipower of +20 rPD, +20 rED, +20 rPower Defense, +20 rMental Defense, +20 rSight Flash Defense, +20 rHearing Flash Defense, +20rSmell flash defense, +20 rRadio flash defense, +30 Lack of Weakness, +10/+10 Force Field 0 END (all Ultras; 60/1.5 for OIF rings = 40)

64 of them (6 doublings; 30 points)

 

Extra Limbs - 32 arms (5 points)

 

195 points spent; 155 left for characteristics, skills, movement, etc. Toss some movement powers, and some long-term Aid's, into the Multis for a very low cost, if desired.

 

One Offense ring on each finger. One Defense ring on each thumb.

 

Activate defenses. 7 uses of all but the LoW slot. We'll use that once. That's +210 PD, +210 ED, +140 of each esoteric defense, and -30 to opposong Find Weakness rolls. [but only 105/70 if the attack is AP maybe I should Harden them ]

 

Find opponent. Target. MPA with 25 or 26 of each attack. Don't forget to roll for knockback!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

I think the most abusive concept, however, has to be The Controller. A low-level Psi with the following abilities:

 

1d6 Mind Scan, 0 END (+1/2), 0 END to maintain (+1/2), Cumulative (+1/2), 6 doublings of maximum effect (+1 1/2 - 256 max), Fully Invisible (+1/2), Fully Invisible while accumulating (+1/2), Penetraing 6 times (+1 1/2) for a total of 40 points.

 

1d6 Telepathy, 0 END (+1/2), 0 END to maintain (+1/2), Cumulative (+1/2), 6 doublings of maximum effect (+1 1/2 - 256 max), Fully Invisible (+1/2), Fully Invisible while accumulating (+1/2), Penetraing 6 times (+1 1/2) for a total of 40 points.

 

1d6 Mental Illusions, 0 END (+1/2), 0 END to maintain (+1/2), Cumulative (+1/2), 6 doublings of maximum effect (+1 1/2 - 256 max), Fully Invisible (+1/2), Fully Invisible while accumulating (+1/2), Penetraing 6 times (+1 1/2) for a total of 40 points.

 

1d6 Mind Control, 0 END (+1/2), 0 END to maintain (+1/2), Cumulative (+1/2), 6 doublings of maximum effect (+1 1/2 - 256 max), Fully Invisible (+1/2), Fully Invisible while accumulating (+1/2), Penetraing 6 times (+1 1/2), Telepathic (+1/4) for a total of 41 points.

 

That's 161 points spent. Spend another 39 on Mental Defense (just in case of mental damage auras), and you have 150 left. Or you can just use your base points and have no nasty Disad's for the GM to exploit. I could use an EC or a Multipower, I suppose, but I don't want to be a point-whoring miunchkin here. [And MPA's could come in handy.]

 

Mr. Psychic sits on the beach on a deserted tropical island (buy it as a base - you can sell back some stats to pay for it if you don't want disadvantages) sipping a frosty drink. He'll Mind Scan for his target. Didn't roll a 3? Oh well, try again next phase. At 2 phases per turn, and 5 turns per minute, he should average under half an hour to roll a 3. Once in target, he wants to achieve a full lock taht the target won't remember with -20 to their breakout roll. Start rolling d6's. Achieving the full 256 will take 74 phases on average (call it 8 minutes), or 256 phases (26 minutes) if the target has mental defense so he only gets 1 through at a shot.

 

Now that he has a lock, he can repeat with Telepathy, Mind Control and/or Mental Illusions as desired.

 

If the target gets lucky and breaks the Scan? Start again! Scanning should be easier since you have a more precise location now.

 

Too slow? Buy +10 SPD, only for mental attacks. That drops us down tp about 2 minutes to finish the job. You could boost his Ego as well to increase the chance of success on the attacks made through the Mind Scan.

 

Consider "need not sleep" so you don't have to shut the system down every few hours.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

You can buy two Multipowers for +5 points now?!?!??!?!??!! Okay! THAT is just WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

You can buy two Multipowers for +5 points now?!?!??!?!??!! Okay! THAT is just WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only if its a gadget. The reasoning is that having two of the same gadget isn't all that much more useful than a single one. However, in the case of an extrememly flexible gadget, the logic kinda breaks down, doesn't it?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Only if its a gadget. The reasoning is that having two of the same gadget isn't all that much more useful than a single one. However' date=' in the case of an extrememly flexible gadget, the logic kinda breaks down, doesn't it?[/quote']

No sh**! What a hoot! Defeats the whole drawback to a Multipower with just 5 points!

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

No sh**! What a hoot! Defeats the whole drawback to a Multipower with just 5 points!

Doesn't it tho?

It really almost flattened me when I put it together in my head.

a MAJOR munchkin whole in the system.

[Vondy]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Stick it into your Mental powers MP "Nudge Minds"

 

More and more of my mentalists are built with variable power pools these days...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

More and more of my mentalists are built with variable power pools these days...

Come to think of it, my only, "mentalist," was built with nothing but a little Mental Defense and a really big VPP (not quite cosmic; he still had to take a Phase to switch points).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Okay. I just have to copy it to this thread, because it has such potential. A Trigger based on Precognitive Clairsentience. You could trigger an event whenever events would transpire (such as: turn on Desolidification whenever I would otherwise be hit).

[David Blue]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

Doesn't it tho?

It really almost flattened me when I put it together in my head.

a MAJOR munchkin whole in the system.

When Hero System favours something it tends to do so comprehensively. The implications of what is preferred tend to spread and increase. Killing attacks are favoured over non-killing attacks in all sorts of ways, not just with the STUN lotto. Complicated and obscure attacks are favoured over classic bashing in all sorts of ways.

 

Since gadgets are hugely favoured over inherent powers, this is a logical implication.

 

It's not a "hole". There's not a wall, with this crack in it. Rather it's a swimming pool, sloped all the way along the bottom.

 

This is at the deep end for sure, but if you move away from it slightly, you don't jump back to a level playing field, you just get gradually less benefits. (Your END battery points are still there when you recover from knockout, and you're still getting the Focus limitation.) And if you go even deeper (Independent), there are more benefits, logically because you're complying to a greater extent with Hero System's preference as to what gets to have exalted power and who does not get to have such power.

 

Bravo to AmadanNaBriona for wading into the deep water and finding this gem of gadgetry though. Repped!

[prestidigitator]

Re: Favorite Abuse

 

I had a whopper of an idea earlier while reading one of the EC threads. Someone mentioned that MP's are often dedicated to either offence or movememt. It occured to me that there is a huge potential abuse here..

lets make a character with, say, mystic gauntlets. Make them a MP at the campaign AP limit. Give them a variety of interesting attacks, movement powers and defences. make the offence fixed slots, while the others are variables.

Heres the abusive part.

spend the +5 points to have two of them.

Now, you have 2 identical multis that allow you massive combat flexibility, including the ability to do multi-power attacks with different offensive slots.

This strikes me as just sick.

I have to point out a more devastating example, because I thought it out and just can't keep quiet. If the Active Point limit for the game is 75, buy a Multipower with 16 Powers, each of which is a fixed slot with 75 APs. This MP costs 187 before Limitations. Now buy 16=2^4 of them for +20 points. That's a total of 207 points (a lot less with Limitations), and you get 16 full Powers that you can use all simultaneously. That should be 1200 Active points, and would cost over 600 before Limitations even in a maxed-out EC!