Batman vs Midnighter

[Blue]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

I forgot Batman is the equal of a a goverment angency, sorry i appologise,superior to a goverment agency.

 

Just cos he owns a mega corp dosent mean he can do what he wants technically. As most write ups have it he does all his science work himself, i mean to say who do you contract out for BAT gadgets?

 

Team Achilles just exemplifies why super wouldnt even bother existing, oh you exist we can kill you. wow there super

 

and everone else is a target, oh but wait its run by normals, menton takes over...or whoever.

I always found it funny that there weren't a bunch of scientists sitting around out there, watching the news, and saying, "Hey, the turbo on that car looks alot like the one I developed at Wayne" and "That Batarang he uses reminds me a lot of the metal we developed at Wayne."

 

Any of thousands of his employees should have had a few good guesses at who Batman was.

[Phil]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

I always found it funny that there weren't a bunch of scientists sitting around out there, watching the news, and saying, "Hey, the turbo on that car looks alot like the one I developed at Wayne" and "That Batarang he uses reminds me a lot of the metal we developed at Wayne."

 

Depends who the author is, but there's still that 'theory' that batman has never actually been photographed. A claim which frankly seems ridiculous given how high profile he has been through the years, but then all of DCs long-running heroes suffer a little bit from choose-your-own-continuity.

[Wanderer]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

If the power levels of their respective boyfriends enter into the equation' date=' I have to give it to Midnighter.[/quote']

 

Well, if Apollo enters the equation Bats would be handed the fragments of his ass no matter how much prep time and contingency planes he gets. No kryptonite here... if this however brings a general JLA vs. Authority brawl... dunno. So many variables (including the precise rooster of the JLA). Since Apollo vs. Supes and Hawksmoor vs. WW probably neutralize each other, it hangs on whether either Flash & GL or Engineer and Doctor get to place the decisive blow (especially Flash and the Doctor: both have the potential to shift the balance decisively). Also if, and which incarnation of, Jenny enters the fray (Jenny Quantum is automatic victory for Authority, unless JLA gets some equivalent powerhouse like Cap. Marvel). The first truly satisfying outcome of JLA vs. Authority: Plastic Man gets head ripped in the first turn, Aquaman gets the hook up his @$$.

[Markdoc]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

OTOH: I liked the initial run of Authority' date=' which was up until Jenny Spark died. Then the whole "we can make a better world" concept was replaced with "we can do what ever we want." [/quote']

 

Yep - it's worth noting that that was when the original creative team bailed, basically saying, "OK, we're done with this storyline now". Since then it's been all downhill (and on a luge, yet).

 

cheers, Mark

[Eyendasky80]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Yep - it's worth noting that that was when the original creative team bailed, basically saying, "OK, we're done with this storyline now". Since then it's been all downhill (and on a luge, yet).

 

cheers, Mark

 

Brubaker's doing a nice job, it's the first time in four or five years I've bothered to buy the book.

[casualplayer]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Brubaker's doing a nice job' date=' it's the first time in four or five years I've bothered to buy the book.[/quote']

 

And even Brubaker couldn't think of a way to redeem the Doctor after Millar fubar-ed him. Millar turned Jeroen into the character that you couldn't remember why you would want in your game.

[Broblawsky]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

The first truly satisfying outcome of JLA vs. Authority: Plastic Man gets head ripped in the first turn' date=' Aquaman gets the hook up his @$$.[/quote']

 

In a fight between, say, Midnighter or Hawksmoore and Aquaman, I'm damn well betting on the guy who can lift a city block, run 200 mph, and is bulletproof.

 

And Plastic Man is flat-out immortal and transmutation-proof, incidentally. No one on the Authority can actually do anything permanent to him.

 

Frankly, except for the Doctor, everyone on the JLA is a lot more powerful than the Authority.

[Iuz the Evil]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

In a fight between' date=' say, Midnighter or Hawksmoore and Aquaman, I'm damn well betting on the guy who can lift a city block, run 200 mph, and is bulletproof. [/quote']

 

I'd bet on him too, but Hawksmoore is way stronger than you make him out to be in proximity to urban areas... oh, you mean Aquaman? Really?

 

Um... ok then. YMMV I guess.

[KA.]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

I have not read any Batman in years, and the only "Authority" I have read was actually Stormwatch, so I do not in any way consider myself having an expert opinion in this matter.

 

That being said, the "My combat computer can blah blah blah . . ." sounds like a Special Effect to me, not a Power.

 

My question is, What is on the Character Sheet?

 

+6 SPD vs. Mooks?

10 Overall Combat Levels?

 

I mean if Midnighter's GM (well, Writer) wants to say "He is the God of Combat and wins every fight because I say so!" that is fine, but if he is entering the 'game' then he has to be built on points like every other character.

 

If the argument is: Midnighter is built on 1000 points and Batman is built on 500 points, and since they have basically the same build, except Batman 'wasted' a bunch of points on Skills, Contacts, etc., then I guess the fight goes to Midnighter.

 

But you don't get to win just by having an SFX of "Infallible Combat Computer".

 

You may as well build a 100 point NPC Superhero with the SFX of "My Power Automatically kills Midnighter no matter what he does."

 

KA.

[Beastial]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Having read Authority for pretty much the whole run (I'm not much of a critic, I just like Large Scale Violence, which the Authority has provided me in spades), and having read quite a bit of Bat-lore, I formally proclaim myself uber-Authority over this thread.

 

Pun intended.

 

I'm afraid Batman's life would be brutally cut short. The fight would last as long as Midnighter wanted it to last, and would end with Bats dead. The Authority is very much a "take no prisoners" organization. And things would stay that way for at least an issue or two... until someone managed to ressurect Bats, then he'd do the whole "prep for battle" thing and fight midnighter in a slightly-less-lopsided battle ending with Midnighter in a super-prison somewhere... until he decided to say "something clever... like 'door'".

 

A previous poster mentioned the battle where Midnighter butchered a thinly-veiled copy of the X-Men. That thin veil was a gender-swap and some different costumes. That's it. Funny stuff. In that battle, mightnighter caved Colossus-chick's head in with a single blow (with a staff)... establishing his STR in the "way the heck up there" range. 50 at least, with plenty of MA DC's piled on to boot. This was not an HKA, but it still one-shotted a brick.

 

And I'm still waiting for The Engineer to give Midnighter and Apollo (both cyborgs acording to a panel in their origin story back in the stormwatch days) a Mega Upgrade... any tech built prior to "place each atom where I want" really doesn't hold a candle to anything built afterward. Go check out "The Diamond Age" by Neil Stephenson (an actual book!) for some ideas on what The Engineer ought to be capable of. Machines that can fit through your pores can do pretty much anything they want to your insides, for good or ill.

 

If we're looking for someone interesting for Midnighter to fight, I'd recommend Spider-man. Both have superhuman reflexes and strength. Both have "unconventional methods" for avoiding attacks (spider sense vs combat computer). I think S-M would eventually fall simply because Midnighter isn't reluctant to spill blood, while Spider-man would work within ethical limits... on the other hand, Spidey recently got an upgrade of his own, so perhaps things would be in his favor.

 

 

Of course the deciding factor is simply who's book the fight took place in. Home field advantage and all that.

[Phil]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Having read Authority for pretty much the whole run (I'm not much of a critic' date=' I just like Large Scale Violence, which the Authority has provided me in spades), and having read quite a bit of Bat-lore, I formally proclaim myself uber-Authority over this thread.[/quote']

My credentials read similarly and my conclusion is the same. Agreement of two - doesnt that mean we can shut this thread down now?

 

Dont think Spidey has sufficient CSLs to handle Midnighter, but Midnighter - like Bats and, within the Authority, Hawksmoor - can seem to have quite wildly differing power levels.

[nexus]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

As much as I like Batman and overall, dislike Midnighter, this would be a battle Batman "couldn't" win without writer fiat in a major way. Maybe against the Stormwwatch Midnighter, but not The Authority version who, like all the other characters is Godlike bordering on ridiculous.

[Phil]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

As much as I like Batman and overall' date=' dislike Midnighter, this would be a battle Batman "couldn't" win without writer fiat in a major way. Maybe against the Stormwwatch Midnighter, but not The Authority version who, like all the other characters is Godlike bordering on ridiculous.[/quote']

 

To some extent the problem is caused, I think, by Apollo. He began as so much more powerful than the rest of the Authority, there was a kind of escalation to bring everyone closer to his level. (Well, OK, the most powerful is The Doctor, but his extreme weakness to presence attacks, drug addiction frequently leading to incapacitation and general wimpiness gave the writers plenty of scope to write him out of any given conflict).

 

The tri-stat game has actually made a pretty good fist of making the Authority characters points-balanced with each other. Except for Swift of course, who by their exalted standards, er, sucks! (in other words, she's a perfectly reasonable and not over-powered superhero character, the only one of the Authority who could comfortably slide into mainstream DC and Marvel without any major ructions)

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

As much as I like Batman and overall' date=' dislike Midnighter, this would be a battle Batman "couldn't" win without writer fiat in a major way. Maybe against the Stormwwatch Midnighter, but not The Authority version who, like all the other characters is Godlike bordering on ridiculous.[/quote']

 

Uhm...

 

If you're using the version of the Midnighter from the Authority, you HAVE to use BatGod, since that's the relative equivalent (i.e. what you get when you put the character on a high powered team).

 

Yeah.

[dalton]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

[

 

A previous poster mentioned the battle where Midnighter butchered a thinly-veiled copy of the X-Men. That thin veil was a gender-swap and some different costumes. That's it. Funny stuff. In that battle, mightnighter caved Colossus-chick's head in with a single blow (with a staff)... establishing his STR in the "way the heck up there" range. 50 at least, with plenty of MA DC's piled on to boot. This was not an HKA, but it still one-shotted a brick.

 

 

The majority of the Authority enemies are thinly-veiled copy of others super-hero or super-villain.

In other issues they had killed the legion of super-heroes and all the marvel and dc supervillain without sweat.

But this is just the author that say: My hero are better than yours... ha ha ha. Not that the hero/villain parodied is so easy to kill.

I don't consider their victory against the gender-switched x-men, the americans ( the copy of the avengers) as an indicatation of the outcome in any battle against the original, just the writer power trip.

[Blue]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

You may as well build a 100 point NPC Superhero with the SFX of "My Power Automatically kills Midnighter no matter what he does."

Heeeeyyy.... "Power Automatically Defeats Dr. Destroyer". I like it.

 

To the Munchkin-Cave!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Heeeeyyy.... "Power Automatically Defeats Dr. Destroyer". I like it.

 

To the Munchkin-Cave!

 

Hmm...how much for a VPP that can only take "Power Automatically defeates" powers?

[shaunclinton]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Speaking from the point of view of someone who's read everything featuring Midnighter, and who has read the Bat-titles and JLA for the past 15 years a few things seem wrong here to me.

 

First up, JLA Batman has to be used here, as he's the character Midnighter is based on, and thus the one that is suitable for a fight.

 

Secondly, the Authority isn't as powerful as some people make them out to be here. Especially not Midnighter, who can't do much damage to any real bricks. The X-men rip offs don't really count as they suffer from the total-lack-of-resistant defences that all Authority villains have (or are we to believe Teuton [and thus, presumably, Apollo] could be killed by a drill/nailgun/whatever it was to the back of the head?) Midnighter could not hurt Superman, Jonn or Wonder Woman without Kryptonite, Matches or... well, whatever you use!!! In a straight JLA/Authority fight the JLA win most times, excepting creative actions on the part of The Doctor and The Engineer. And of course, Jenny Quantum!

 

Third. Midnighter isn't completely infallible, nor invincible. His enhancements cannot read minds, that's a fact. He is fast, but does not possess much in the way of Speedster abilities. He is strong, but despite his strength's seeming changeability, it never reaches brick like levels.

 

Fourth. Batman's utiltiy belt contains a lot of useful gear for this scenario. Midnighter is certainly a master of up close and personal fighting, but batarangs, nerve gas and the like go a long way towards evening the odds.

 

I reckon that in the initial encounter Batman takes a bit of a punishing beating, but escapes with his life (for those wondering how, I'm sure a guy who can hide from Superman won't have any problems with Midnighter) plans a bit and returns to defeat Midnighter using ranged attacks and/or by disabling his enhancements. I'm no doubt sure if there was a third contest Midnighter would somehow swing it and so on ad infinitum.

[nexus]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

In a Batman comic:

 

Batman would take a horrible beating from the Midnighter, manage to escape and recuperate while studying Midnighter's actions (probably acting as a very bloody vigilante). There would be some "Am I better than him?" Angst in there somewhere (Granted, Midnighter does actually deal the deranged psychopaths plaguing the city in a more pernenant fashion...). He would devise (yank out of his butt) something to overwhelm the combat computer (basically "cheating") and emerge victorious (Send Midnighter to the revolving door prison to show up again later).

 

 

In The Authority. Midnighter would punch a thinly disguised Batman clone in the head. His head would then explode in a shower of gore. Midnighter would make some plucky comment before or after. Of course this "Batman" would be a brutal racist stooge that beats up on the "Helpless poor", minorities, woman, student protestors and jaywalkers so we'd all get a good laugh out his humiliating and effortless defeat. The rest of the JLA clon- "homages" would shortly follow of course.

 

[Rick R Mortis]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

In The Authority. Midnighter would punch a thinly disguised Batman clone in the head. His head would then explode in a shower of gore. Midnighter would make some plucky comment before or after. Of course this "Batman" would be a brutal racist stooge that beats up on the "Helpless poor", minorities, woman, student protestors and jaywalkers so we'd all get a good laugh out his humiliating and effortless defeat. The rest of the JLA clon- "homages" would shortly follow of course.

 

 

..and this is why, if I ever do run a serious superhero game, I will have a villain team who are thinly vield versions of the Authroity. True, they're probably gonna be one-off villains, but...

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Wait, if all Authority villains are so alike (and all die so fast) then where does the tension required for drama arise in combat? Or are the fight scenes just sort of there, with the 'real action' happening on another level (i.e., social commentary/criticism, satire, whatever)?

[nexus]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Wait' date=' if all Authority villains are so alike (and all die so fast) then where does the tension required for drama arise in combat? Or are the fight scenes just sort of there, with the 'real action' happening on another level (i.e., social commentary/criticism, satire, whatever)?[/quote']

 

Pretty much. The Authority themselves are very rarely portrayed as being in any danger in their fights. They tend to crush their opposition almost effortlessly. Bystanders die by the droves though, so there is the life saving aspect to add some dramatic tension.

 

There's also political tension and some would say moral (though I see the moral issues as being pretty much as white washed as they are in the Silver Age just in a different direction).

 

To be fair there have been a few villians that were powerful enough to challenge such as Seth and the evil ex Doctor. But most of their battles are complete butt whupping along the lines of what would happen if the Justice League fought Static Shock's rogue's gallery.

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Midnighter will most likely have Precognitive Aim type ability listed from UNTIL Superpowers database which would give him a +6 to his OCV and Precog Dodge giving him a +8 OCV. He would also possess super strength, and lightning reflexes. CSL of 8 points and nearly all martial arts.

 

Would he have Def. Manuevers?

 

Bat-god (if that's the version we'd use): would have max human potential in nearly everything (so 20s). A Variable Power Pool utility belt that can only be changed outside of combat (i.e. between encounters/scenes) with several set items. However, if he's allowed to have all his gadgets, that negates the VPP and allows him each gadget as a power. He'd have an 8 CSL and most martial arts. Batman would have Def. Maneuver of at least 2.

 

Batman has demonstrated to use Acid capsules, lasers, explosives, batarangs (double as knives), Kyrptonian Tech integrated with Apokolptian stuff and his own business designs. He bluffed Darkseid--he can most likely bluff Midnighter's computer.

 

If it was straight up stats fight...I'd go with Midnighter.

 

However, Batman cheats and uses his entire environment on Midnighter to get the win. Batman doesn't fight straight face to face.

[NeoSamurai]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

forgot to add:

 

Slade would whoop both of them.

[Susano]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

forgot to add:

 

Slade would whoop both of them.

 

So would Son Goku.