Batman vs Midnighter

[Niles]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

As for this matchup' date=' Midnighter does NOT fight like a person, he fights like a computer. There should be no body language cues besides those physics dictates[/quote']

Most of any skilled fighter's body language cues are dictated by physics. As for the supposed utility of his tactical computer, interpreting sensory inputs and manuvering a body in a physics ruled 3 dimensional space are things computers are really bad at. Midnighter always benifitted from a large dollop of writers wank. he's dangerous but he's nowhere near invincible.

 

That said he is still stronger and tougher than Batman, that was enough for Bane the first time.

[Niles]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Aside from Midnighter's super abilities' date=' isn't this match basically like Kasparov vs. Deep Blue?[/quote']

 

For a computer playing grandmaster level chess is signifigantly easier than bipedal locomotion.

[Twilight]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Most of any skilled fighter's body language cues are dictated by physics. As for the supposed utility of his tactical computer, interpreting sensory inputs and manuvering a body in a physics ruled 3 dimensional space are things computers are really bad at. Midnighter always benifitted from a large dollop of writers wank. he's dangerous but he's nowhere near invincible.

 

That said he is still stronger and tougher than Batman, that was enough for Bane the first time.

 

No, being stronger and tougher and fighting Batman after he was worn out fighting his entire Rogues Gallery over the course of several days was enough for Bane the first time. Stronger and tougher is not enough by itself.

[TheRealVector]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

The only thing I need to know is that my character Vector could wipe the floor with Midnighter!

[Vondy]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

And who comes up with the names for these guys, anyways?

[Haerandir]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Warren Ellis, I think.

[Vigil]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

As much as I hate to admit this...and I really, really, really, really hate to admit this, I think Midnighter would annihilate Bats before Bats even had a chance to comprehend what was happening, nonetheless react to it.

 

Remember, and I think this has been stated elsewhere in this thread, Midnighter seems capable of at least Quicklsilver level acceleration and bursts of speed and his agility and reflexes seem to be superior to Spidey's so, plausibly, Bats wouldn't stand a chance. And since Bats would, presumably, be perceived as a "villain" by Midnighter I don't think there'd be enough left of Bats for a rematch after the first half second or so. Bats would be dead before he even perceived what hit him.

 

Basically, Midnighter is like Deathstroke jacked up on super-steroids then combined with Deathlok for good measure. And we've all seen Deathstroke clean Bats clock on several occassions so there's really no way to deny that Midnighter would annihilate Bats in no time at all.

 

And I really hate that, too, and utterly despise the Authority but that's, overwhelmingly, the only plausible outcome. And that sucks.

 

Vigil

[Balabanto]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

I normally don't post on these things, but....

 

I think Midnighter's superhuman abilities are, unfortunately, based on your ability to see your opponent.

 

If I am Batman, and I see this guy show up, I use the most powerful ability I have to take him down.

 

I fight dirty.

 

Cape over head. Kidney punch. Done. Or. Three pounds of force to break a kneecap. This guy's killed thousands of people. That gets around. No walk. No combat.

 

 

If I am Midnighter, I try to get Batman's arsenal of special weapons away from him so he doesn't have a chance to throw a cape over my head, or blow me up with gas grenades, etc. Remember, Midnighter's special abilities make him vulnerable to a lot of batman's flash grenades, smoke grenades, and other nasty "futility belt" paphernelia.

 

So that's the story. Whoever has the best plan and the ability to execute it wins. These two guys are all about the terrain. That's it.

[OzMike]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

I think pie could take them both.

[assault]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Batman napalms Midnighter from the Batplane, and says "I normally dislike taking human life, but this guy was a real d*ck".

 

The Golden Age Batman would have used machine guns, but I figured the Iron Age version would have napalm.

[Tarek]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

The Authority is basically a meaner, nastier, uglier version of the JLA. Think "Normal people with superpowers and a vindictive/megalomaniacal streak." They rely on their powers to bring them through trouble, and rarely take the time to think.

 

That said, one of the Superman comics had Superman vs. a thinly disguised Authority.

 

Superman won, because he used his brains.

[assault]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

I wrote:

Batman napalms Midnighter from the Batplane' date='[/quote']

 

This is thread drift, of course, but I've been struck recently about how big a role the Batplane has played in Batman's career at various points. It seems to have been his big equaliser in a lot of situations. That's interesting, of course, since people usually think of him as the "vigilante on the rooftop".

 

In a lot of the early Justice League cases, he seems to actually be "the guy in the jet"! I guess that's fair enough: he can fly at supersonic speeds, and blow people up with missiles!

 

When he actually fought on the ground, he usually seemed to use Judo, so his lack of actual damage dealing power wasn't generally a major factor. And even then he was often the guy in the background thinking while the other folks engaged in the mindless violence.

 

So he wasn't, originally, the omnipotent Bat-God. Rather, he was quite sensibly doing what a non-powered character should be doing in his situation: either using technology (the Batplane) to narrow the gap, or else being the one doing the background work.

 

I think my next Bat-type character will spend a whole bunch of points on a spiffy vehicle...

 

And yes, in the Golden Age, he did actually deal with some of his opponents by machine gunning them from the air...

[space wolf]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

first i would like to point out that a straight one on one with midnigher would not happen, why? because batman doesnt fight fair...fair isnt in his vocab, he will use anything and everything he possibly can to win (asside from guns and lethal force of course) and while midnighter doesnt have that restriction, he also doesnt have an arsenal around his waste, or a plane or car waiting to be called. I believe someone mentioned batman defeating amazo...he only stalled amazo until the batmobile could arrive and fired missiles at him. I have no doubt that bats could get away....then again, I'm a bat fan, so Im biased.

[GestaltBennie]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Deciding with my head, Midnighter. He's like Batman crossed with Slade crossed with Wolverine.

 

Deciding with my heart, Bats.

[Susano]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

I will admit that initially, under Warren Ellis, The Authority were interesting characters with interesting powers and abilities and a pretty decent motivation -- to make the world a better place. It was post Ellis that I grew pretty disgusted with the comic and the politics. So, all jokes aside, in a straight up fight? Midnighter. In a fight where Batman can plan ahead? Bats.

 

But Captain America beats them both, 'cause he's, well, Captain America -- the guy Korvac ranked as more dangerous than Thor!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Firelord Rulez!!

[Susano]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Ergo, Spider-man would totally own Midnighter.

 

 

Wait... Midnighter versus Taskmaster...

 

[Vigil]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Yeah Cap!

 

He'd wipe the floor with Bats then tean Midnighter that there's certain things a "tactics engine" is completely useless at, that is, beating a foe that simply won't be beaten. Cap always finds a way to win, regardless of the odds and that's why...

 

Cap Rules!

[OzMike]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Seeing as this thread is called Batman vs Midnighter I thought I'd digress but remain loosely on thread topic...

 

Admittedly Midnighter has not been written well, not nearly as well as Batman. However, the character is still young and there are some pretty dire Batman stories out there in the 60-odd years of comic book history. I don't think the character is that bad, as far as characters go. And seeing as he is meant to be a Batman analogy and the thread is about the two versus each other ...

 

What does Batman have that Midnighter doesn't, and does Midnighter need to fix him?

 

(and "a bullet" isn't really the answer I had in mind to the second, even though it is tempting...)

[Susano]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

What does Batman have that Midnighter doesn't' date=' and does Midnighter need to fix him?[/quote']

 

Brains. Batman is far, far smarter than Midnighter and is much like James Bond, at times, he's an expert on everything. One major question is, does Midnighter have anything to fall back on when the battle-computer in his head gets the Blue-Screen-Of-Death? He must have some sort of martial training and combat skills, or computer or no, he wouldn't be able to fight the way he does. The one thing Bats has going for him is Midnighter's overconfidence. IIRC, Midnighter is really, really dependent on his computer, not that he is helpless without it, but that he is so used to what it can do for him, he doesn't both with stealth and what not anymore. So it's possible bats could use that to lure Midnighter into an area crawling with traps and take him out.

[gojira]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

Batman napalms Midnighter from the Batplane, and says "I normally dislike taking human life, but this guy was a real d*ck".

 

The Golden Age Batman would have used machine guns, but I figured the Iron Age version would have napalm.

 

Mmmm, I love the smell of Bat-napalm in the mornin'.

 

 

 

Round 1: Midnighter kills Batman in 3.657 seconds.

 

Round 2: Midnighter spends five years hiding in caves in Central Asia as the entire Justice League is after his butt in a very big way. Finally, J'onn tracks him down and Supes, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and Zatanna take him down in a quick and perfectly planned strike.

 

Round 3: Zatanna prevails on Dr. Strange to bring Batman back from the dead.

 

Batman: "I knew that would happen."

[freakboy6117]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

i have a new take on this midnighter I'm pretty sure any given member of planetary could take him down and I'm including drummer.

Ambrose chases probability manipulation powers would pretty much ruin his fight wares day and without that hes reduced to low cunning which doesn't leaves him much against a well trained tactician

 

Jakita Wagner is super fast super strong and super tough he would be able to hurt her and she could probably just speed blitz him into a pile of mush though she would probably enjoy playing with him till she found out he was gay and lose interest.

 

drummer would just mess with all the bio-mechanical enhancements in midnighters brain till he passed out or was driven insane by alien porn

 

Elijah snow is the only one I'm not sure about and I'm pretty sure he's fought something at least as scary as midnighter in his career.

 

batman on the other hand could seduce jakita ( and anyway he spars with wonder woman so he knows how to manage against similarly physically competent foes)

earn the respect of Elijah with his detective skills(and if not he's fought ice powered villains before and his has power armour)

scare the ever-loving stuffing out of drummer and you don't need much else

 

which just leaves Ambrose chase batman's tactical ability has given him an edge even against people who can selectively alter physics or at least the minds perception of them.

[OddHat]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

 

What does Batman have that Midnighter doesn't, and does Midnighter need to fix him?

 

A purpose.

 

The key to the Batman character is his obsession with his parents deaths. When written well, Batman takes that obsession and turns it into something positive, dedicating himself to creating a world where no child will again go through what he went through. That he does this through direct action is an artifact of the genre, though it could also be interpreted as the violent side of his driving obsession, a violence that he holds in check.

 

In the end, by personal choice, Batman is fighting for something beyond himself.

 

Midnighter never really had that.

 

Under Ellis, we never really learn why Midnighter decided to join the program and become a cyborg. We don’t see much of his motivation, other than his love for Apollo and his very personal joy in violence. He may be part of a group trying to make a better world, but on a personal level he seems to be fighting because he likes to fight. There’s nothing heroic in that.

 

After Ellis, the Authority, along with Midnighter, became parody characters intended to take the piss out of Superheroes, and the sadism rose to the surface. At this point the character really can't be redeemed.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

 

A purpose.

 

The key to the Batman character is his obsession with his parents deaths. When written well, Batman takes that obsession and turns it into something positive, dedicating himself to creating a world where no child will again go through what he went through. That he does this through direct action is an artifact of the genre, though it could also be interpreted as the violent side of his driving obsession, a violence that he holds in check.

 

In the end, by personal choice, Batman is fighting for something beyond himself.

 

Midnighter never really had that.

 

Under Ellis, we never really learn why Midnighter decided to join the program and become a cyborg. We don’t see much of his motivation, other than his love for Apollo and his very personal joy in violence. He may be part of a group trying to make a better world, but on a personal level he seems to be fighting because he likes to fight. There’s nothing heroic in that.

 

After Ellis, the Authority, along with Midnighter, became parody characters intended to take the piss out of Superheroes, and the sadism rose to the surface. At this point the character really can't be redeemed.

 

Excellent!