keithcurtis Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) They actually had her do this once in Firefly, and it was scary. jg That's why I referenced continuity. She has demonstrated such ability before. I would be able to buy into it even with melee weapons if they were more reasonably sized. That axe was huge. But as I said, it really doesn't bother me that much. It certainly didn't ruin the movie. Keith "At least she wasn't moving in bullet time" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Keith "And Firefly doesn't even have rayguns" Curts Heart of Gold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Heart of Gold He said rayguns plural. Only one laser pistol was shown in that episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) That's ok. He misspelled his own name too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Fair point. Psychic enhancements or not, the idea that someone River's size & build can punch a Reaver in the face and actually hurt him, let alone knock him down, does call for a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. At least Gina Torres (Zoe) has some muscles on her. OTOH from a dramatic standpoint I'll still take that cliche over its predecessor, the Weak Woman Who Needs A Man To Protect Her. oh hell yeah! two of my all time favorite movies unfortunately include one of the worst examples, and an almost as bad example. The Princess Bride LadyHawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Look' date=' it's really, really simple. River bought +5 Damage Classes with her martial arts.[/quote'] I was thinking 6 levels, though depending on how the Reavers were written up, 5 might be fine. most of her attacks would not have been +4d6 manuevers, iirc. I see her as about an 8 str. I could see going down to 6, but then she wouldn't likely have been able to hide on ceilings and such. so 7.5 dice with the no damage added 9.5 with the +2 dice attacks 11.5 with an offensive +4d6 attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Great pics. Summer Glau is attractive, but Cynthia Rothrock would kick her ***. I don't find Summer particularly attractive. In fact, the least attractive woman on the ship. now Cynthia.... ROWRRRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) What about the bar scene where she beats up an entire room filled with thugs who probably get in lots of fights. Also in that scene she takes down Jayne with ease' date=' a man trained and well-experienced and easily twice her mass. (Of course IIRC she hit him in a very vulnerable spot, so maybe it could happen)[/quote'] I wouldn't quite say she took him down with ease... Though she took him, he did better than anyone else against her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) River should have huge levels of combat skill to represent her ability to read the minds of everyone around her instinctively. Plus danger sense, find weakness and combat luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) River should have huge levels of combat skill to represent her ability to read the minds of everyone around her instinctively. Plus danger sense, find weakness and combat luck. Don't forget Defense Maneuver I-IV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant for Hire Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) One of the reasons I liked Xena was that Lucy Lawless actually looked more like what I would imagine a warrior woman would look like. As a woman I knew described them "wide, child-bearing shoulders". She looked like her punch would carry some power behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) One of the reasons I liked Xena was that Lucy Lawless actually looked more like what I would imagine a warrior woman would look like. As a woman I knew described them "wide' date=' child-bearing shoulders". She looked like her punch would carry some power behind it.[/quote'] And most of her damage was accomplished with a sword. ^ v ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkenfresh Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) He said rayguns plural. Only one laser pistol was shown in that episode. Did anyone else laugh when the light flashed saying it was out of batteries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) That's ok. He misspelled his own name too... Sigh. I want smarter fingers. Seriously, it's like being the manager of a department of chimps. Type, you damn dirty apes! Keith "Corrected 5 typos in this post alone. I counted" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Sigh. I want smarter fingers. Seriously, it's like being the manager of a department of chimps. Type, you damn dirty apes! Keith "Corrected 5 typos in this post alone. I counted" Curtis I'm SO glad to know I'm not the only one. I am guaranteed to have half a dozen typos. Many I don't even correct, not because they don't bug me, but because I connect to a remote computer from my desk in order to do posts, and there's a delay of a few seconds between when I type something and when it appears on screen. After a while it's not even worth the effort to back up five words to correct something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) I'm SO glad to know I'm not the only one. I am guaranteed to have half a dozen typos. Many I don't even correct' date=' not because they don't bug me, but because I connect to a remote computer from my desk in order to do posts, and there's a delay of a few seconds between when I type something and when it appears on screen. After a while it's not even worth the effort to back up five words to correct something.[/quote'] I'm lucky. OS X browsers allow me to select "Check spelling as you type" and then underline questionable words. A right-click then brings up various suggestions, allowing me to correct errors as I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) I trained in Aiki with a thin waifish woman. When she went to the parent dojo in Japan (Iwama), her admission group was filled with muscular, well-trained men - if they hadn't been well-trained they wouldn't have been there. She kicked their butts - and everybody else's - being graded first in her class. A high level of skill is quite capable of trumping musscle mass. That's kind of the point of soft martial arts. One of the top aikidoka in the UK - Tony Sargeant - came to our dojo to train with Saito-sensei from Iwama. He's a really big guy and enormously strong. When he met Saito, Saito said "This man is the strongest on the mat. I feel sorry for him because if does not lose this strength he will never learn Aikido." Adrian - the waifish woman - threw him around pretty easily too. Scary woman Oh yeah - she also broke my nose Cheers, Mark Sorry, but Aikido ain't fighting. Aikido requires one person to cooperate with the other. There is no way that you could fight someone using Aikido the way it is currently practiced. Aikido is not intended to be used a combat form. It is a way, a path to spiritual growth. All the martial spirit and the spirit of competition--for lack of a better term--has been purposefully excised. It's more like dancing than fighting. I'm sorry, but people in real fights are not going to run up to you and feed you attacks on set vectors and then comply when you try to throw them. The reason the senior instructor said that the guy had to lose his strength to learn was this: If he used his strength and resisted, the techniques would not work smoothly and the art of the movements would be lost. Now something like old school Jujutsu or Aikijutsu is another story. Those guys meant business. They were trying to kill each other on the battlefield. They were striking viciously at vulnerable points, then applying throwing and/or pinning techniques as a prelude to breaking something off, striking another vulnerable point, strangling you to death, slitting your throat with your own sword, or some combination of the above. I took judo for several years, and I would rather use that in a fight than Aikido. At least I could use unsafe techniques to dump someone on their head or break an arm. I could also do so serious damage to someone's neck or windpipe by "cheating." At least in Judo, you have randori and competitions wher you are going against someone who is resisting and trying to get you at the same time. Now, you could disrupt most techniques in Judo with a well-timed kick, knee to the lower back or groin, or a sharp blow to the kidneys, so that's not saying much. All that being said, I would still rather just fight dirty. Hell, boxing ain't really fighting, but I would still rather use that with the appropriate bad attitude than Aikido, or Tai Chi, or even Judo. OK, rant mode off. I liked Serenity, but I took the River fight scenes as entertaining science fantasy. I believe that is what they were intended to be, nothing more. EDIT: Tried to organize my thoughts a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Sorry' date=' but Aikido ain't fighting. Aikido requires one person to cooperate with the other. There is no way that you could fight someone using Aikido the way it is currently practiced. Aikido is not intended to be used a combat form. It is a way, a path to spiritual growth. All the martial spirit and the spirit of competition--for lack of a better term--has been purposefully excised. It's more like dancing than fighting. I'm sorry, but people in real fights are not going to run up to you and feed you attacks on set vectors and then comply when you try to throw them.[/quote'] You've obviously never met hard-style Aiki Many martial arts forms - including hard style karate schools - also aim at using physical forms to promote spiritual growth - that's not unique to internal styles of martial arts. So no, it's not a competive art - too many of the techniques revolve around dislocation and bone-breaking for any competive element to be feasible. But for many schools, Aiki-jutsu is an inseperable part of Aiki-do. Certainly our school taught the difference between balance training maneuvers and self defence maneuvers, and we trained with (fake) broken bottles as well as knives and swords. But anyone who cannot react to an unexpected attack or an unusual approach would be considered a poor aikidoka. The reason the senior instructor said that the guy had to lose his strength to learn was this: If he used his strength and resisted' date=' the techniques would not work smoothly and the art of the movements would be lost. [/quote'] No, it wasn't. The Uke is *supposed* to resist - otherwise you end up with sloppy, pointless technique (and yes I know there are fluffy schools that do that). Obviously you don't resist to the point where you get injured, but we were certainly encouraged to accept as much pain as possible before signalling to end a technique and to simply break free if the technique was poor. I recall having my face slapped (hard!) in front of the whole class for applying a technique the teacher could easily escape from. The teacher's point - and I've met and trained with him and his own pupils, so I have had this point repeatedly explained - is that strong people often rely on their strength to overcome deficiencies in their technique. But it is in the perfection of technique that spritual growth is also found - in Japanese culture that's true of the tea ceremony or lacquer-making as much as martial arts. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) You've obviously never met hard-style Aiki Many martial arts forms - including hard style karate schools - also aim at using physical forms to promote spiritual growth - that's not unique to internal styles of martial arts. So no, it's not a competive art - too many of the techniques revolve around dislocation and bone-breaking for any competive element to be feasible. But for many schools, Aiki-jutsu is an inseperable part of Aiki-do. Certainly our school taught the difference between balance training maneuvers and self defence maneuvers, and we trained with (fake) broken bottles as well as knives and swords. But anyone who cannot react to an unexpected attack or an unusual approach would be considered a poor aikidoka. No, it wasn't. The Uke is *supposed* to resist - otherwise you end up with sloppy, pointless technique (and yes I know there are fluffy schools that do that). Obviously you don't resist to the point where you get injured, but we were certainly encouraged to accept as much pain as possible before signalling to end a technique and to simply break free if the technique was poor. I recall having my face slapped (hard!) in front of the whole class for applying a technique the teacher could easily escape from. The teacher's point - and I've met and trained with him and his own pupils, so I have had this point repeatedly explained - is that strong people often rely on their strength to overcome deficiencies in their technique. But it is in the perfection of technique that spritual growth is also found - in Japanese culture that's true of the tea ceremony or lacquer-making as much as martial arts. cheers, Mark Makes sense. I wouldn't mind seeing a training session at harder style school like you are describing. The three schools I looked at out here were very "soft." There was also an Aikijutsu school out here, but I didn't see the training as being that much different. I had a similar thought when I checked out a Hapkido place, so it's not just Aikido that gave me that impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Yeah, there are a lot of so-called martial arts schools out there, regardless of style, that are little more than aerobic dance studios. Not that there’s necessarily anything wrong with that, if you’re just in it for fitness, self-confidence, etc. But they really oughta call them something else so people don’t walk out with the illusion that they can handle themselves in a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Yeah' date=' there are a lot of so-called martial arts schools out there, regardless of style, that are little more than aerobic dance studios. Not that there’s necessarily anything wrong with that, if you’re just in it for fitness, self-confidence, etc. But they really oughta call them something else so people don’t walk out with the illusion that they can handle themselves in a fight.[/quote'] Allegedly the whole idea behind martial arts is to develop enough physical confidence so as not to try to get in a fight. If you really wanna learn how to fight, the main "dojo" would be the local biker bar. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Allegedly the whole idea behind martial arts is to develop enough physical confidence so as not to try to get in a fight. If you really wanna learn how to fight, the main "dojo" would be the local biker bar. JG High school works, too. Anyhow, I have found that dirty fighting is the most effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) Makes sense. I wouldn't mind seeing a training session at harder style school like you are describing. The three schools I looked at out here were very "soft." There was also an Aikijutsu school out here' date=' but I didn't see the training as being that much different. I had a similar thought when I checked out a Hapkido place, so it's not just Aikido that gave me that impression.[/quote'] Fair enough. The style I trained in was fairly old fashioned/Japanese and is still associated with the parent dojo in Iwama. One of the teachers from there, an american called David Alexander (aka "the man with no wrists") taught at our dojo for a while, but is now back on the west coast somewhere (California, I think). If you are interested, google him and you may be able to find an Iwama school in your area. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) High school works, too. Anyhow, I have found that dirty fighting is the most effective. If you're not cheating, you're not trying. If you're not winning, you're not cheating enough. --My favorite martial arts teacher of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Re: Some thoughts on River Tam (Firefly) High school works, too. Anyhow, I have found that dirty fighting is the most effective. "And now, Grasshopper, you must master the secret of the Purple Nurple..." JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.