sachmo Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 First post...and I hope it isn't a stupid one. I'm a relative newbie to the Champions universe. I played a few times (twice, actually) many moons ago and enjoyed the game. Recently, I decided to buy the 5th Edition rulebook and see if I could get my band of geeks into some superhero roleplaying. So i bought the 5th Edition Hero rules, and the Champions sourcebook. Today at lunch, I wander into a Wizards of the Coast store and noticed that all non-wizard products are 70% off! Squealing with delight, I peruse the Champions section and I see the Resource Kit and Champions: New Millennium. I page through the New Millennium book, and notice that it is compatable with 5th Edition rules, and so I choose it. Reading the background story has me thirsty for more. The book tells me that this book is the first in a series of 5. The next books will add to the history of the universe, and I get the impression that this book is a compilation of a number of old Champions Universe tales. I decide to follow a link to http://www.herogames.com/fuzion/fuzion.html mentioned in the book to see how much the other books will cost for me to follow this interesting story. Well, it seems I can't find any mention of any follow up books, nor even the one that I own. Does anyone know anything about this book? Do they exist for sale anywhere in the universe (well, besides Ebay?) Are they worth the trouble to track down, or is there a better place to find the history of the Champions Universe? Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Oops...should have bought the Resource Kit instead -- C: NM is an artifact of previous paradigm. In fact IIRC, the '5th ed' compatibility of that product was founded on a different intended '5th ed' -- one that never materialized. Read Chapter 7 of the big black 5th edition rules I hope you have; its the final chapter before the Index and is comprised of 3 pages only. It gives a fairly succint history of the HERO legacy including the near fatal lapse into obscurity from which Steve Long and the DOJ saved it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 /* rolls a "9" for his Enraged check You just got away with one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachmo Posted April 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Oops...should have bought the Resource Kit instead -- C: NM is an artifact of previous paradigm. In fact IIRC, the '5th ed' compatibility of that product was founded on a different intended '5th ed' -- one that never materialized. Read Chapter 7 of the big black 5th edition rules I hope you have; its the final chapter before the Index and is comprised of 3 pages only. It gives a fairly succint history of the HERO legacy including the near fatal lapse into obscurity from which Steve Long and the DOJ saved it.... Thank you so very much. Since everything is 70% off, I may just go back and buy the resource kit, too! I can always use this book for source material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syberdwarf2 Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by sachmo Thank you so very much. Since everything is 70% off, I may just go back and buy the resource kit, too! I can always use this book for source material. I would suggest buying up as much of the new line (anything marked "DOJHERO###" on the spine) as possible, especially considering it's at 70% off (((drooling with envy))))).... That way, even if you want to go back and get the early stuff (assuming they have any of it besides C:NM, even if it's bought at "full price" it's still gonna be a bargain. Old stuff makes for great source material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by TheEmerged /* rolls a "9" for his Enraged check You just got away with one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Eh, there's some interesting stuff out of the New Millenium stuff. However, it's less compatable than 3rd & 4th edition hero. At 70%, buy all the DOJ stuff. Well worth it. If you don't think so, you could always ebay it at a slight markup. hmm, I think there's a WC store in town.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroGM Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Personally I use Bay City Any City book can be generic enough to use and Fuzion isn't THAT hard to bring over to 5th if you have an idea of the rules. Just because something (or someone) isn't popular doesn't mean it can't be a good source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 I like the NM stuff personaly (But will refraim from commenting on that which is known as Fuzion) IIRC that is the only book of the series that got printed, while two others were printed using soley Fuzion at 30% all are probably worth picking up to mine for story ideas Happy gaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 sachmo, Champions: New Millennium was built, I believe, as a bridge between R Talsorian's Interlock system and HERO 4th edition. The characters and setting are interesting, the art is a very different style than HERO 4th edition (and not to everyone's taste), and thankfully, conversion to HERO 4th or 5th edition is easy. If your local WOTC doesn't have Bay City and Alliances, they usually can be found inexpensively on places like eBay. As is typical on eBay, watch for a week or two and look at the price of closed auctions before deciding what to bid on them. Still, Champions, Champions Universe, and Conquerors, Killers & Crooks deliver just as much bang for the buck, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachmo Posted April 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Thanks for all of the input, folks! I'll probably keep the book for source material. I really like the story, and I'm going back to the Wizards store to check out what they have left. I think it's just the resource kit, but for 70%, who's counting? Well, besides my wife? BTW, I'm not sure if all WOTC stores are having the same sale, but the store manager did tell me that they were getting rid of all non-WOTC games and were no longer going to carry them. If that is a chain-wide decision, your local store should have the same deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 It is chain wide. They are also getting rid of Warhammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Wish there was a WOTC store near me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike ? Bit of a board in-joke, I once posted a writeup of myself. One of my disadvantages is Enraged (go 8-, recover 11-) when certain subjects are mentioned. C:NM is one of those subjects; by rolling a "9" I didn't go into EMERGED SMASH! mode The source of this joke is that once, on the old boards, I made a complete jerk of myself on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachmo Posted April 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Dumb question...and I haven't read the book yet so I don't know, but here goes... Why does C:NM make you ENRAGED? Is it the Fuzion rules? That it wasn't finished? Something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 The very concept, especially the setting (I disagree with the above statement that it was "interesting" by a wide margin), the Image-style presentation, the in-my-opinion horrible timing of what I consider to be a weak release... /* rolls a "10" ...and a large number of other issues, but I'd better stop while I'm ahead I'm too close to this issue (and it's not the only one that can set me off) and people are certainly welcome to their opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 The facts as I understand them follows: Fuzion was to be Hero 5th edition, but not only did they scrap the story, they scraped the system then refered to the rules from 4th edition as being essentialy required, it was a huge mistake they took the art and tried to imitate the "hot" comics of the day, namely Image so anyways, in essence they ticked off almost everyone SOMEHOW, so now people have taken there hatred over a part of it (Be it art, story, or the one I loath rules) and extend it to all parts of the project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 ...and some of us hated almost every aspect of it to begin with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cadet Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Wasn't there supposed to be an adventure sourcebook for C:TNM called Champions Worldwide released sometime in the near future, or was that project dropped? I seem to recall seeing an ad for it in one of last year's game magazines. Space Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Originally posted by Space Cadet Wasn't there supposed to be an adventure sourcebook for C:TNM called Champions Worldwide released sometime in the near future,or was that project dropped? Hmm, I think anything about New Millenium can be considered not to be a going concern. I think you can find elements of New Millenium in the current products which is only natural, since some of the authors worked on both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Fuzion was to be Hero 5th edition That's absolutely incorrect. While I suspect that the former owners would have changed my 5E manuscript to make it a lot more like Fuzion, and I know for a fact they were going to put a conversion notes section in the book, the two systems are distinct and would have remained that way. Wasn't there supposed to be an adventure sourcebook for C:TNM called Champions Worldwide released sometime in the near future, or was that project dropped? There was such a book. In fact, it was written; I wrote two parts of it, Tomas Skucas wrote a part, Doug Tabb wrote a part, I forget who else was involved (there were five or six parts, IIRC). But as the company slipped into general malaise and found itself unable to actually get anything published, it fell by the wayside, where it has remained. I may eventually mine my own parts of it for use in something else, but the book as a whole certainly isn't applicable to the CU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Steve has corrected my statement, HOWEVER, I know that many gaming stores BELEIVED it was to be 5th edition (note I am refering to the 1st edition of C:NM here, not the second), now this might have been just bad communication, but at the time the internet was in it's infancy and accurate gaming information was far and inbetween for the consummer. Steve as a designer at the time would have had a better "inside track" than what I knew at the time. To be honest, while I disagree with some things done sense DOJ has taken over, I have to say that I am impressed with the way they have kept communications high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Grrr. Just checked out the WotC store in Portland. Barely anything in the Roleplaying section. All D20. blek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry A! Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by lemming Grrr. Just checked out the WotC store in Portland. Barely anything in the Roleplaying section. All D20. blek. WoTC stores are now only carrying WoTC and select D20 stuff. That's why non-WoTC stuff has been on clearance for the past few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by Jerry A! WoTC stores are now only carrying WoTC and select D20 stuff. That's why non-WoTC stuff has been on clearance for the past few months. That's why I was checking it out to see if there was anything still there on sale. Still some stuff, but nothing to make a trip for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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