Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

[Enforcer84]

So, you think Dr. Doom simply has an artistic sensibility that keeps his technology looking "Low End" scifi where as Tony Stark prefers the sleek ultra modern look?

 

I don't know of anyone who would say that Stark's Technology is superior to Doom's; but is sure looks like it.

 

Okay that's it I am off to bed.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

So, you think Dr. Doom simply has an artistic sensibility that keeps his technology looking "Low End" scifi where as Tony Stark prefers the sleek ultra modern look?

 

I don't know of anyone who would say that Stark's Technology is superior to Doom's; but is sure looks like it.

 

Okay that's it I am off to bed.

I'd say technilogically, Doom would have access to higher Tech. But Tony actually impletments higher Tech in his suit than Doom does.

 

In a Suit vs. Suit fight I'd give it to Tony. That's only because I get the feeling that Doom's suit is primarily defensive in nature, it doesn't have anywhere near the offensive capability that Tony's does. I'd also say that defensively Tony's suit is at the same level if not higher than Doom's as well.

 

However, in a Doom vs Iron Man fight I'd give it to Doom. He's gotten too powerful in non-technilogical ways for Tony to be able to take him purely on a Tech vs Tech level.

 

TB

[Manchine]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

Wasnt there a Doom Vs Iron Man Fight already in Comics. Iron Man lost big TIME!

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

Overall, Tony's got better armor, but Doom's got a better gadget pool.

 

They both have had rather insane things over the years, like Doom's molecule expander and Iron Man's pulse-bolts, that get *more* powerful the further away the target is.

[Duke]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

I think that they like to keep Dooms armour looking almost medieval due to the fact that he is a sorcerer. It may look ancient in design but it might have all the bells and whistles. Actually that is something Marvel should probably touch more on is Dooms ability to mix magic and science.

[Hermit]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

So, you think Dr. Doom simply has an artistic sensibility that keeps his technology looking "Low End" scifi where as Tony Stark prefers the sleek ultra modern look?

 

I don't know of anyone who would say that Stark's Technology is superior to Doom's; but is sure looks like it.

 

Okay that's it I am off to bed.

 

I think, in part, it well reflects their personality. Doom's armor stays much the same in appearance perhaps because Doom would never admit or indicate he didn't get it right the first time. He IS Doom, after all. His arrogance is reflected in his unwavering consistency.

 

Tony, on the other hand has always been concious of appearance for public relations reasons (Heck,he switched from the original gray because it scared folks) but even then didn't hesitate to put new toys in a higher priority than appearence if need be. What's more, Iron Man has had to find himself more often than Doom, reinvent himself as it were, so changing his look to match only makes sense.

 

That's just my take on it though

[Kirby]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

Well, Iron Man keeps updating his look, while Doom keeps pretty much the same. Also, Doom came about during the era of "tough machines and every hero needs a Nazi-like villain" back in the day. With Iron Man being a hero, the writers want to keep his armor 'hip'.

 

Another way to think of it is that Doom keeps his armor like Han Solo keeps the Millennium Falcon: It may be the fastest ship in the galaxy, but he doesn't want it to look like it is.

[Hermit]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

 

Another way to think of it is that Doom keeps his armor like Han Solo keeps the Millennium Falcon: It may be the fastest ship in the galaxy, but he doesn't want it to look like it is.

 

"Fool! Doom can do the Kessel Run in 8 parsecs!"

 

[Kirby]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

"Fool! Doom can do the Kessel Run in 8 parsecs!"

 

[SirViss]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

Wasnt there a Doom Vs Iron Man Fight already in Comics. Iron Man lost big TIME!

 

Yes there was. I remember it was when they were both transported back in time to era of King Arthur. And you are right, Iron Man figured that he was way over-powered and did a tactical retreat. Though he might have also retreated because he realised that the enemy that REALLY needed to be defeated for that storyline was Morgana Lefay.

 

Also, when both of them cannibalised their suits to built a one-shot time travel device, I remember Doom thinking "If his lackey has this level of technical knowledge, Stark must be a Genius!", or something in that vein.

[Vorsch]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

Yeah i read that as well, good line. It not easy to get repect from doom.

 

Doom has the weakest armour of practcally any armoured hero, he just comes up with tech items on demand so i go with weak armour and large gadget pool.

 

Iron man is the most powerful armour, but is inflexible.

 

Doom wins by exploiting weaknesses rather than sheer power (constant unchanging )

 

Iron man is after all in thors league. Doom can take the beyonder, iron man cant.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

I was thinking last night after posting this that it might also have to do with their backgrounds.

 

Doom, like most of the other mega villains in the MU, was raised by Gypsies. He was poor and worked his way to the top. Doom is fantastically intelligent and a master of several subjects, including magic, engineering, robotics, physics, genetics, temporal physics, etc. His armor is basically, a Force Field, Blaster, handgun, Physical Enhancement, Life Support and Sensors. He doesn't need more than that and either his asthetic sense or his magical nature has kept him in the same armor (though I am sure the armor's systems are better now than they were when he started) for all these years.

 

Stark on the other hand, rich kid. Born to wealth and always had the best. He is more of a one trick pony (engineering), but is more willing to work with others. He likes the toys that's why he has seven different weapons systems. They are supposed to be flexible, and showy. He changes armors to keep up the cutting edge, or at least the appearance of it.

 

In the end, Doom has always been portrayed as smarter, but he's also even more arrogant. Tony can see flaws in his own work (and judging from his past, even when they aren't present) and constantly works to improve it. Doom doesn not. He is perfect and his track record bears him out. Personally, I think Tony's current armors would be a match if Doom didn't use his magic, gadgetpool, robots, higher intellect, ect. But that's just me (and Vorsch, apparently )

[wcw43921]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

I'd love to see that fight, though.

 

To me, the best fights in comics are between characters with identical or near-identical powers. Bricks vs. Bricks, Martial Artists vs. Martial Artists, Energy Projectors vs. Energy Projectors.

 

Showdown time.

 

Fantastic Four #25--The Hulk vs. The Thing. Imagine a pro wrestling match with better dialogue--

 

"Fool! You're just a muscular freak! But I'm The Hulk!"

 

"I'll remember those words, playmate! They'll look great carved on your tombstone!"

 

Fantastic Four Annual #4--Johnny Storm vs. the original Human Torch. Stripped of his memory and enslaved by the Mad Thinker, the Torch must kill Johnny or be destroyed. The full-page panel with the two of them colliding is Jack "THE KING!" Kirby at his best.

 

I aso remember a Legion Of Super-Heroes story where Lightning Lad fought his brother, Lightning Lord. They were both glowing bright with electrical energy as they slugged it out.

 

I thing Doom would have more surprises in his armor than anyone realizes. But then again--so would Iron Man.

 

It would be one heck of a fight. I nominate George Perez to draw it.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

I'd love to see that fight, though.

 

To me, the best fights in comics are between characters with identical or near-identical powers. Bricks vs. Bricks, Martial Artists vs. Martial Artists, Energy Projectors vs. Energy Projectors.

 

Showdown time.

 

Fantastic Four #25--The Hulk vs. The Thing. Imagine a pro wrestling match with better dialogue--

 

"Fool! You're just a muscular freak! But I'm The Hulk!"

 

"I'll remember those words, playmate! They'll look great carved on your tombstone!"

 

Fantastic Four Annual #4--Johnny Storm vs. the original Human Torch. Stripped of his memory and enslaved by the Mad Thinker, the Torch must kill Johnny or be destroyed. The full-page panel with the two of them colliding is Jack "THE KING!" Kirby at his best.

 

I aso remember a Legion Of Super-Heroes story where Lightning Lad fought his brother, Lightning Lord. They were both glowing bright with electrical energy as they slugged it out.

 

I thing Doom would have more surprises in his armor than anyone realizes. But then again--so would Iron Man.

 

It would be one heck of a fight. I nominate George Perez to draw it.

Good call. Perez would rock.

[CBikle]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

In most comics, when Doom goes head to head with someone, he's usually very prepared and strikes by ambush.

 

I think Iron Man's armor is inherently more powerful and versatile than Doom's (I don't think this was always the case).

 

Stark keeps gradually improving his armor in tons of little ways that make him more formidable. The armor is his main focus, whereas Doom seems to put most of his energies into whatever his latest super-weapon is.

 

In terms of style, Doom's armor has more of a gloomy, dungeonesque medieval-european look (I guess that's a Latveirian thing?).

 

Stark, on the other hand, seems to revel in the whole futuristic-optimist look which makes sense. Iron Man is a perfect tool for Stark's advertising purposes (I know that's not the intent; just a happy coincidence). IM is basically "product placement" that stops bank robberies and saves people from burning buildings.

[Whitewings]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

"Fool! Doom can do the Kessel Run in 8 parsecs!"

 

The script for Star Wars reads:

 

HAN SOLO: "She's the the ship that made the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs."

 

BEN: reacts to this blatant attempt at misinformation

 

So despite what many people think, that line was not an expression of ignorance. It was *supposed* to be meaningless. I won't claim that Lucas has never messed up, but he didn't mess up with that line.

[Chuckg]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

In INFINITY WAR, Doom takes out Adam Warlock -- who is a credible slugging partner for /Thor/ -- in solo combat. And was fresh enough to then turn around and finish off the Magus, after contemptuously frying an incarnation of Kang. And while the weapon he used to do that was an oversized custom job, his armor's defense systems weren't sporting any new add-ons. (Doom had had less than a couple of hours to prep for the mission in question... enough time to go into the arsenal and break out some of the heavy toys, /not/ enough for a full suit rebuild.)

 

In EXCALIBUR (issue # not available), Doom survived a pushed move-through from a fully-powered Captain Britain that left a crater in the landscape comparable to a small asteroid impact. (Which, given that CB had just done that move-through /from low orbit/, isn't exactly unexpected.)

 

Even as far back as, god, the early 70s, Doom's armor let him survive a full-powered cosmic onslaught from the Over-Mind (his first appearance in FANTASTIC FOUR)... who had previously in the same storyline trashed the entire Fantastic Four with contemptuous ease. And by "contemptuous", I mean (edited to enhance pithiness) a two-hit fight -- the Over-Mind hit them, and they hit the floor.

 

And this is before we get into what has to be Doom's greatest durability feat ever -- in SECRET WARS I, a mildly annoyed Galactus blasted Doom through the hull of his ship, which happened to be in orbit around Battleworld at the time. Doom then proceeded to make a screaming out-of-control, sans retro-rockets "flaming comet" atmospheric re-entry from geosynchronous orbit... and land with the usual quasi-nuclear smoking crater such orbital falls would produce.

 

He then got up and walked away from the landing under his own power.

 

Granted that Galactus only hit him with the tiniest pinky-flicking fraction of his full power (although it was still sufficient to breach the unobtainium hullmetal his ship was made out of with Doom's face), granted that Doom's armor was 99% trashed and he was staggering away on his absolute last legs... the fact remains that he not only lived at all, he remained conscious.

 

One of these instances would be a fluke. But all of them that I've named are from different comics, by different writers, spread out over at least three different /decades/. All of them were also unquestionably from Doom himself(*), and not a Doombot. (The presence of Doombots is responsible for most of "Doom's" on-panel losses... many of them are significantly weaker than he is.)

 

Short version -- with Doom's force field up, Iron Man could throw a tactical nuclear weapon at him and not get much of anywhere. This fight's only going one way.

 

 

Addendum -- the weakest feat for a 'genuine Doom' that I can think of is his first "death" at the hands of the exploding Terrax... and that still required the explosion of a terminally overloading and out-of-control wielder of the Power Cosmic, and actually left enough of the armor to still be recognizable (as opposed to the random quarks you'd expect).

 

 

 

(*) The usual way of making sure that a given Doom appearance is not a Doombot is to watch for the use of his sorcerous as well as scientific knowledge -- it's the main thing he has that his robotic duplicates don't. The Secret Wars example also has Doom unmasking during the course of the arc, not to mention the Beyonder dragged Doom there in the first place, and he isn't likely to be fooled by an audio-animatronic. Neither is Kang, Adam Warlock, or the Magus, for that matter.

[SirViss]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

...

Addendum -- the weakest feat for a 'genuine Doom' that I can think of is his first "death" at the hands of the exploding Terrax... and that still required the explosion of a terminally overloading and out-of-control wielder of the Power Cosmic, and actually left enough of the armor to still be recognizable (as opposed to the random quarks you'd expect).

...

 

Wasn't the mask the only thing left after that explosion? I may be getting storylines mixed up.

 

And If I have it right: remember that the mask was eventually reactivated (by Cristophe-Doom?), had its own flight power, and a VERY potent blaster. So not only did the mask survive the Cosmic Blast, but it still had functioning components, that were capable of eluding Mr. Fantastics scans!

[ZootSoot]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

In INFINITY WAR, Doom takes out Adam Warlock -- who is a credible slugging partner for /Thor/ -- in solo combat. And was fresh enough to then turn around and finish off the Magus, after contemptuously frying an incarnation of Kang. And while the weapon he used to do that was an oversized custom job, his armor's defense systems weren't sporting any new add-ons. (Doom had had less than a couple of hours to prep for the mission in question... enough time to go into the arsenal and break out some of the heavy toys, /not/ enough for a full suit rebuild.)

 

In EXCALIBUR (issue # not available), Doom survived a pushed move-through from a fully-powered Captain Britain that left a crater in the landscape comparable to a small asteroid impact. (Which, given that CB had just done that move-through /from low orbit/, isn't exactly unexpected.)

 

Even as far back as, god, the early 70s, Doom's armor let him survive a full-powered cosmic onslaught from the Over-Mind (his first appearance in FANTASTIC FOUR)... who had previously in the same storyline trashed the entire Fantastic Four with contemptuous ease. And by "contemptuous", I mean "one hit, one panel".

 

And this is before we get into what has to be Doom's greatest durability feat ever -- in SECRET WARS I, a mildly annoyed Galactus blasted Doom through the hull of his ship, which happened to be in orbit around Battleworld at the time. Doom then proceeded to make a screaming out-of-control, sans retro-rockets "flaming comet" atmospheric re-entry from geosynchronous orbit... and land with the usual quasi-nuclear smoking crater such orbital falls would produce.

 

He then got up and walked away from the landing under his own power.

 

Granted that Galactus only hit him with the tiniest pinky-flicking fraction of his full power (although it was still sufficient to breach the unobtainium hullmetal his ship was made out of with Doom's face), granted that Doom's armor was 99% trashed and he was staggering away on his absolute last legs... the fact remains that he not only lived at all, he remained conscious.

 

One of these instances would be a fluke. But all of them that I've named are from different comics, by different writers, spread out over at least three different /decades/. All of them were also unquestionably from Doom himself(*), and not a Doombot. (The presence of Doombots is responsible for most of "Doom's" on-panel losses... many of them are significantly weaker than he is.)

 

Short version -- with Doom's force field up, Iron Man could throw a tactical nuclear weapon at him and not get much of anywhere. This fight's only going one way.

 

 

Addendum -- the weakest feat for a 'genuine Doom' that I can think of is his first "death" at the hands of the exploding Terrax... and that still required the explosion of a terminally overloading and out-of-control wielder of the Power Cosmic, and actually left enough of the armor to still be recognizable (as opposed to the random quarks you'd expect).

 

 

 

(*) The usual way of making sure that a given Doom appearance is not a Doombot is to watch for the use of his sorcerous as well as scientific knowledge -- it's the main thing he has that his robotic duplicates don't. The Secret Wars example also has Doom unmasking during the course of the arc, not to mention the Beyonder dragged Doom there in the first place, and he isn't likely to be fooled by an audio-animatronic. Neither is Kang, Adam Warlock, or the Magus, for that matter.

 

 

Yeah, but as awful as the source is (and its beter than anything from any Secret Wars) the original HBTTMU says that Stark's armor is designed to survive a ground zero nuclear strike (it might actually say the same about Doom). When it comes to sheer technical prowess Tony tops anyone; now he doesn't have Reed Richards sheer intellectual power (let alone touch than of Bob Banner) and Vince has his mystic background (though until quite recently that all seemed to be boast rather than reality) but Tony's weapons tech is the best there is in Marvel.

[Chuckg]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

If a handbook is contradicted by what's actually on the page of the comics themselves, and contradicted often enough and by enough different writers that it's not just a sloppy writing fluke, then I would go with the comics -- not the handbook. It's called 'hierarchy of canonicity', and in that hierarchy, compendiums and addenda come in below primary source material.

 

The fact that you (and a lot of other fans) think Secret Wars sucked doesn't change that. It would be like me trying to ignore that Maxwell Lord has mind control powers capable of planting effective post-hypnotic suggestions in Superman... howevermuch I might think OMAC PROJECT blows, the fact remains, it still exists.

[Kirby]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

And now for something completely different:

So despite what many people think' date=' that line was not an expression of ignorance. It was *supposed* to be meaningless. I won't claim that Lucas has never messed up, but he didn't mess up with that line.[/quote']

Ah, yes, because that's been argued here so very often....

[Fox1]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

The fact that you (and a lot of other fans) think Secret Wars sucked doesn't change that.

 

Fame passes, but bad writing is forever.

[Chuckg]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

True, but whether or not the plot makes you want to gouge out your eyes with a dull spoon doesn't really count for these kinds of "Who'd Win?" discussions -- what matters is whether or not the relevant feats from said plot can be fitted into the character's overall career without an excessive amount of inconsistency.

 

Example -- Ka-Zar defeating Thanos in melee combat, an idea so utterly ridiculous that Starlin had to invent the 'variably-powered Thanos doppelgangers' later on in INFINITY ABYSS just to try and /begin/ to get consistency back in the game. OTOH, despite the fact that the writing on INFINITY ABYSS was arguably as lame as Ka-Zar, the feats for Thanos in that one count, because they were both a) for the genuine Thanos and said feats are consistent enough with the general run of Thanos portrayals over the years to be at least halfway believable.

 

Edit -- or to phrase it in a less long-winded way... stories I hate are still equally as canonical as stories that I like. Unfortunately.

[Hermit]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

It was *supposed* to be meaningless.

 

Then that line and my joke have something in common

[TheImperialKhan]

Re: Dr. Doom vs Iron Man

 

In The Iron Manual Stark himself puts Doom on top though not by much. On a scale of 1 to 10 he puts his armor at 9 and Doom's at 10. He also doesn't seem to think that Doom is trying real hard. The quote runs something like: "If Doom really put his mind to it he could create a suit of armor that could rip mine apart as though it were made of aluminum foil."