Jhamin Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 I just have to get this off my chest. Rant ON! Alot of folk talk about Crisis and Zero Hour as the two moments when DC changed its direction. Many have issues with both events. That's fine, the opinion has alot going for it. I just need to point out that Crisis on Infinate Earths was published 20 years ago! It was the age of New Coke, Ronald Regan's 2nd term, Michael Jackson was still Black, Cell Phones cost 50c/Min, Champions 1st edition was a new and edgy game where you didn't roll for stats, and Teen Wolf was coming soon to theatres near you! Stop yer wineing about Crisis! It happened. It happened before most of the cast of Sky High was born! If you haven't liked comics since then, you haven't liked comics for 2/5 of the modern era! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Great post - and a great counterpoint to some other threads. Lessee...comics started in about 1938 or so, right? It's 2005 now and Crisis was 1985. 67 years of comics, 20 post-Crisis and 47 pre-Crisis. So if you dislike everything post-Crisis, you dislike about 30% of all comics history. Of course, that's not the whole story. Most people on these boards aren't in their '70's, and you'd have to be to have read those old 1938 comics when they were new. I'm 39, and I first read comics when I was 6 (and Crisis would sure have blown me away then!). That's 33 years, 20 of which are post-Crisis, so I'd have to dislike over 60% of comics I've been around to see at their original publication. [it's pretty amazing how excited we get about coloured pictures and word balloons, isn't it?] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! I liked CoIE. I was getting a headache trying to decide who was from Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-84, etc. I miss Barry but he makes enough come-backs to keep me happy, and Wally is good too. I like the humanization of the characters which took place right after that. Unfortunately a lot of that is all gone now due to always creating newer, tough foes rather then making older foes more interesting. I can respect a company that decides to shake the pillars of heaven every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! I don't think anyone's whining about Crisis per se (or Zero Hour). I think some of the older guys are whining about how how lame comic book writers are today. Just awful, putrid scum. I admit Editorial is supposed to do be keeping an eye on things, but the editors seem to be lame too. You know your reading material is lame when a main character dies, his power is used for villainy, and another character with the same name as the first steps in to use that power for good. I'm not talking about Firestorm either. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! The writers involved in ID Crisis and the various miniseries spun off from it, are actually pretty good. The problem is that the basic premises are all dopey and most seem to cast mainstream characters in roles they're ill-suited for (especially Batman). Also, I don't really get what OMAC Project was supposed to do. It seems to piss off older readers , but is WAYYY too continuity-heavy and spread out over too many titles to attract new readers (usually big changes like this are designed for just this purpose. In theory). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! I admit Editorial is supposed to do be keeping an eye on things, but the editors seem to be lame too. Normally I'd agree, but DC is doing something a little different. DC has given Geoff Johns sweeping editorial powers to make all this stuff mesh with the "One Year Later" event that's tied into Infinite Crisis. Grant Morrisson has the same deal, but to a lesser degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! You know, I was born around the time of crisis, I grew up in the time of grim and gritty. The stuff that was pre crisis looked silly and kind of dumb to me, ofcourse, often, anything that's before your time seems to look stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! You know' date=' I was born around the time of crisis, I grew up in the time of grim and gritty. The stuff that was pre crisis looked silly and kind of dumb to me, ofcourse, often, anything that's before your time seems to look stupid.[/quote'] Oh sure, make me feel old. I was at University. Actually, I think some of DC's very best stuff came out in the 5 years immediately following Crisis, when DC was offering the biggest names in the industry a immense amount of creative control over revisioning their universe. Just compare the entirety of Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman to the fantastic work done by George Perez, for instance. DC just sucked up all the talent for about half a decade. It was a great period to be a DC fan. My only Crisis lament has been the loss of some really good characters and teams. Infinity, Inc. was basically killed by Crisis. Keith "On the other hand, I haven't seen 'my' Batman in 20 years" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Normally I'd agree' date=' but DC is doing something a little different. DC has given Geoff Johns sweeping editorial powers to make all this stuff mesh with the "One Year Later" event that's tied into Infinite Crisis. Grant Morrisson has the same deal, but to a lesser degree.[/quote'] AS an example of policy at the moment I believe they told the guy writing Manhunter to kill all the other manhunters using Mark Shaw as Dumas, his arch enemy from his series by Ostander and Yale. Sounds lame to me. They're killing characters left and right, essentially ripping up everything that has happened between 85 and now. I hope the pay off is worth it by the time they are done. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! My only Crisis lament has been the loss of some really good characters and teams. Infinity, Inc. was basically killed by Crisis. Keith "On the other hand, I haven't seen 'my' Batman in 20 years" Curtis All of the E-2 heroes got treated like trash. I don't understand why. It's like someone said "Dump on anything related to the JSA." CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! My only Crisis lament has been the loss of some really good characters and teams. Infinity, Inc. was basically killed by Crisis. Keith "On the other hand, I haven't seen 'my' Batman in 20 years" Curtis All of the E-2 heroes got treated like trash. I don't understand why. It's like someone said "Dump on anything related to the JSA." CES yeah, but that's really been repaired in newer years, hell, the JSA team has had made some of the best comics in this decade. Plus, Starman, starman kicked ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! yeah' date=' but that's really been repaired in newer years, hell, the JSA team has had made some of the best comics in this decade. Plus, Starman, starman kicked ****.[/quote'] I kind of liked the new Jsa but Len S. and Mike P.'s was ten times better, maybe a hundred times better, and they didn't even tell the guys it was cancelled until it was. I hated Starman. Robinson could have done so much better with that book. Everybody else liked it, but I didn't. It was retcon on top of retcon on top of retcon. Even the hero was a retcon. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knight Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! I see the problem as time and crowding. Time passes slower in the real world than it does in comics... You can't have comics stay new and fresh when in their timeline they are just reaching the first Gulf War.. (YES.. I know that this is not true... it is only being used as an example) Events such as Crisis and such are an unfortunate necessity. The other issue is that of Crowding. With all the comics and heroes out there.. the streets are getting awfully crowded. So there again... the editors, writers, artists and janitors have to step in and "clean up". Killing off characters is one way to clean up. I prefer this to the "time and space converge and they never existed" method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Isn't some of the ranting to do with the upcoming Infinite Crisis as opposed to the Crisis on Infinite Earths ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Desmarais Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Oh sure, make me feel old. I was at University. Actually, I think some of DC's very best stuff came out in the 5 years immediately following Crisis, when DC was offering the biggest names in the industry a immense amount of creative control over revisioning their universe. Just compare the entirety of Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman to the fantastic work done by George Perez, for instance. DC just sucked up all the talent for about half a decade. It was a great period to be a DC fan. My only Crisis lament has been the loss of some really good characters and teams. Infinity, Inc. was basically killed by Crisis. Some of it was good - some of it wasn't. I enjoyed Perez's Wonder Woman stories, but disliked the change in premise that made her a much more recent entry into the super hero field than Superman and Batman (I prefer the idea that she is part of their generation). John Byrne's Superman reboot was horrendous in more ways than I can list - except for having the Kents still be alive (that part I liked). Actually, I think my problem is that while there were a lot of good creative folks flocking to DC in the Crisis aftermath, DC was floundering editortially. Writers were being given free reign to make changes to characters with no thought to the ramifications throughout all of DC's continuity. Of course, I'm also an old fart who fondly remembers (and misses) Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-3, Earth-4, Earth-5, Earth-6, Earth-12, Earth-A, Earth-B, Earth-C, Alternate Earth-C, Earth-D, Earth-E, Earth-K, Earth-S, Earth-X, Earth-Q, & Earth-Prime - so my opinions are automatically suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Also' date=' I don't really get what OMAC Project was supposed to do. It seems to piss off older readers , but is WAYYY too continuity-heavy and spread out over too many titles to attract new readers (usually big changes like this are designed for just this purpose. In theory).[/quote'] Without reading Infinite Crisis, it's all speculation, but I see much of the purpose of OMAC project is to build the rift DC wants between the Big Three. Wonder Woman killing Max Lord, Batman being responsibile, ultimately, for the whole mess, and Supes nearly killing Batman all look to be contributors to that process. Oh, and Keith - I was in university too, so I feel your pain (I suspect it's bursitis ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Ok, when did we all go European and start saying "in university" and "at university?" I was at college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Universities are made of colleges. Going to college is so so so community college! Before anyone jumps on me I spent the first of my 6 years at college at OCCC (I remember when it was SOCJC or Sock-Jock!) and Rose State College in OK! Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Yes. I went to college for 3 years and then university for 3 years. Keith "Actually, my university was made up of schools" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Of course' date=' I'm also an old fart who fondly remembers (and misses) Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-3, Earth-4, Earth-5, Earth-6, Earth-12, Earth-A, Earth-B, Earth-C, Alternate Earth-C, Earth-D, Earth-E, Earth-K, Earth-S, Earth-X, Earth-Q, & Earth-Prime - so my opinions are automatically suspect. You forgot Earth-Z, 'Zoo Crew Earth'. Hay, maybe they can bring that back, but make it all edgy and dark so all the new fans wll buy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Yeah, Alley Kat Abra gets raped by her magic Wanda, Pig Iron punches a hole clean through an enemy, and Rubberduck gets into porno. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Some of it was good - some of it wasn't. I enjoyed Perez's Wonder Woman stories, but disliked the change in premise that made her a much more recent entry into the super hero field than Superman and Batman (I prefer the idea that she is part of their generation). John Byrne's Superman reboot was horrendous in more ways than I can list - except for having the Kents still be alive (that part I liked). Actually, I think my problem is that while there were a lot of good creative folks flocking to DC in the Crisis aftermath, DC was floundering editortially. Writers were being given free reign to make changes to characters with no thought to the ramifications throughout all of DC's continuity. Of course, I'm also an old fart who fondly remembers (and misses) Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-3, Earth-4, Earth-5, Earth-6, Earth-12, Earth-A, Earth-B, Earth-C, Alternate Earth-C, Earth-D, Earth-E, Earth-K, Earth-S, Earth-X, Earth-Q, & Earth-Prime - so my opinions are automatically suspect. Bravo, bravo, bravo!!! I generally dislike "me, too!" posts, but I'm going to commit that sin myself in this case because I think John has done an excellent job of capturing my feelings on the subject! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! You forgot Earth-Z, 'Zoo Crew Earth'. Hay, maybe they can bring that back... Yes!!! ...but make it all edgy and dark so all the new fans wll buy it! Er... Yeah' date=' Alley Kat Abra gets raped by her magic Wanda, Pig Iron punches a hole clean through an enemy, and Rubberduck gets into porno.[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Desmarais Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! You forgot Earth-Z, 'Zoo Crew Earth'. Hay, maybe they can bring that back, but make it all edgy and dark so all the new fans wll buy it! Captain Carrot and His Amzing Zoo Crew were from, Earth-C. (Alternate Earth-C, or Earth-C minus, was the home of the JLA - Justa Lotta Animals). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Re: Rant - Quit yer whinin' about Crisis! Captain Carrot and His Amzing Zoo Crew were from' date=' Earth-C. (Alternate Earth-C, or Earth-C minus, was the home of the JLA - Justa Lotta Animals).[/quote'] Called Earth-C minus because, IIRC, it was "minus" "our heroes"...i.e. Captain Carrot and the rest of the regulars of the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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