Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

[Metaphysician]

This thread has two purposes:

 

1. To locate plot holes within the Champions Universe

 

2. To figure out if there is any reasonable way to explain them

 

Two things I would prefer not to see:

 

-Basic genre complaints ( ie, why people are wearing costumes, etc ), that don't involve more explicit contradiction of established facts

 

-Power level issues and "Why hasn't ____ taken over" questions. For the purposes of this thread, we shall assume that the unstatted major superheroes are sufficient to keep the megabads from blowing up the planet.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

I admit that I haven't read all the information provided by the CU books for relavent plot holes (not sayin' there aren't any, but if they're not glaring I apparently missed 'em).

 

Do you have something specific to address? Something to start us off? Or are you just fishing. And I don't mean that as negatively as it sounds...merely curious as to the origin of the question(s).

[Metaphysician]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

Off the top of my head, there's the question of "Why isn't telepathic interrogation standard for all captured VIPER agents, thus forcing all Nests to adopt the described antitelepathy precautions??"

 

I can answer this one myself, though: "Because there aren't enough sanctioned telepaths of sufficient power to go around." IOW, most of the time all you could get for scanning the average VIPER agent is a normal or heroic normal with Telepathy 6d6, not enough to get much useful without extensive interrogation.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

Aah. I gotcha. You're not looking for explicit gaps in CU history or content, but rather more realistic and/or rational explanations for issues/plot devices that might not have been addressed, or adequately so.

 

That's gonna be hard for me to address, myself, cuz I tend to mentally add rationales very similar to the one you provided above automatically upon reading, even if I never actually come out and say it (mainly because it might not come up in-game). It's just something I do as a matter of course.

 

Still, it might be fun to see what people come up with. I'll see if I can think of any. If nothing else it'd be good mental exercise.

[Hermit]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

I would think that the US government, when Captain Patriot presented himself for duty in WW2, was quick to capitalize on making he and other masked volunteers as colorful or distinctive as they could as an attempt to boost morale. This would start a trend towards costumes being the norm for super humans even to this day.

[Darren Watts]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

I would think that the US government' date=' when Captain Patriot presented himself for duty in WW2, was quick to capitalize on making he and other masked volunteers as colorful or distinctive as they could as an attempt to boost morale. This would start a trend towards costumes being the norm for super humans even to this day.[/quote']

 

That's exactly what I've been writing in GAC, Hermit. In fact, when the DOJ splits after Pearl Harbor, several of the Homefront Heroes change their costumes to appear more patriotic and distinctive. (Dr. Twilight is particularly not fond of his new one, and after changing several times in 1942 goes back to his trenchcoat and suit, hang what the soldiers say.) dw

[Metaphysician]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

Aah. I gotcha. You're not looking for explicit gaps in CU history or content, but rather more realistic and/or rational explanations for issues/plot devices that might not have been addressed, or adequately so.

 

That's gonna be hard for me to address, myself, cuz I tend to mentally add rationales very similar to the one you provided above automatically upon reading, even if I never actually come out and say it (mainly because it might not come up in-game). It's just something I do as a matter of course.

 

Still, it might be fun to see what people come up with. I'll see if I can think of any. If nothing else it'd be good mental exercise.

 

Well, if you can think of any explicit gaps, pointing out those is good, too.

[Hermit]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

That's exactly what I've been writing in GAC' date=' Hermit. In fact, when the DOJ splits after Pearl Harbor, several of the Homefront Heroes change their costumes to appear more patriotic and distinctive. (Dr. Twilight is particularly not fond of his new one, and after changing several times in 1942 goes back to his trenchcoat and suit, hang what the soldiers say.) dw[/quote']

 

Very cool, glad to see I was on the right track!

 

And Dr. Twilight seems cranky

[steriaca]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

The answer to "Why Hasen't Doctor Destroyer Took Over Yet?" question.

 

One answer is "He realy dosen't want to take over the world, he realy is board, and springs evil plots to keep his mind fresh". I mean, he is over 80, prime age for mental derangments which cause memory and intelagent loss. That is, unless he keeps him mind active.

 

Another answer is "Subversive conflicts with others with simuler goles". VIPER, Menton, even The Warlord are playing a cold war with each other so thay THAY will be the one who would control the world. And Doctor Destroyer has to play this game.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

*sigh*

 

If you *really* want to argue it. . .

 

The reason the second option especially is a *really, really bad choice*, is because it means heroes are meaningless, and the only reason thing keeping the earth free is more bad guys.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

*sigh*

 

If you *really* want to argue it. . .

 

The reason the second option especially is a *really, really bad choice*, is because it means heroes are meaningless, and the only reason thing keeping the earth free is more bad guys.

 

yeah,

 

that's far too close to the truth to really enjoy playing....

[Enforcer84]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

Very cool, glad to see I was on the right track!

 

And Dr. Twilight seems cranky

You'd be cranky too!

If you know you had superpowers, n'stuff...

I got nothin'.

 

 

 

As to the costume thing. I also think that the brilliantly colored or dark and intimidating costumes help you create a dynamic persona. Thereby making it easier to protect your personal life.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

As to the costume thing. I also think that the brilliantly colored or dark and intimidating costumes help you create a dynamic persona. Thereby making it easier to protect your personal life.

In other words, people are more likely to clearly remember the costume, and not the face or voice?

 

Sounds reasonable...

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

*sigh*

 

If you *really* want to argue it. . .

 

The reason the second option especially is a *really, really bad choice*, is because it means heroes are meaningless, and the only reason thing keeping the earth free is more bad guys.

 

Not so much.

 

1) Heroes tip the scale. The villains could quite possibly beat each other to the punch and win if you weren't there.

 

2) Who says you have to accept the Status Quo in game? The PCs would be real heroes if they fixed the little problem, yes?

 

 

Winning because you're powerful enough to kick their *** is okay. Winning against the odds because you have to? Heroic.

[Peregrine]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

Plot hole: Why doesn't the US military use Cyberline? Cost is less of an issue than with PRIMUS; the Special Operations Command (and assigned units) have a budget at least as large as PRIMUS if not larger. Rarity of Cyberline compatibility is a variable issue depending on the rarity level set; it'd be hard to set a rarity level that gives you the number of Avengers PRIMUS appears to have while justifying no military supersoldiers.

 

Plugged: In the law authorizing PRIMUS, there was a provision granting PRIMUS a legal monopoly on the technology they use (Cyberline, blasters, etc.). While presented as a way to enforce additional penalties against those who might steal PRIMUS tech, as well as authorizing full government classification of the relevant data, it also had the unstated effect of prohibiting any other branch of the US Government from using it - including the military. This was not an udesirable outcome for many members of Congress who were miffed at the size of the military budgets, etc. of that era (mid-1980s).

[OddHat]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

In other words, people are more likely to clearly remember the costume, and not the face or voice?

 

Sounds reasonable...

 

Yup. There a few popular (and possibly true) net-anecdotes about this. I think that most people have a hell of a time recognizing famous people on the street, out of context. I spotted Tricia Heffler (sp?) walking out of the dealer's room at GenCon, in her sweat shirt and jeans and without make-up. She looked a bit familiar, and attractive, but I didn't think much about it or realize who she was until I saw her later signing autographs, with a sign identifying her. I've had similar exeriences with people from my gym, students, people from work, etc.

 

If Captain Future always wears a bright red spandex suit and half mask, his glowing force-field shining around him, well, that's a very memorable image. Even if your quiet co-worker Bill Smith is also a tall, athletic guy, you're not likely to make the connection, at least not until you sit down with photographs of both of them and look carefully. Lois and Jimmy should have connected Superman to Clark as soon as they talked to Supes for five minutes; OTOH, a guy who casually knows Clark from the office might watch Superman flying by quickly on TV for years and not make the connection until someone pointed it out.

 

A pair of glasses vs spandex is not enough of a disguise in my games to hide your identity by itself, but it's not a bad start.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

My main issue is that none of the magicians or the scientists out there have figured out the development of supertech is dependent on magical forces, or for that matter, superpowers in general. My own feeling is that there would be at least one or two people who would make the connection.

[Wormhole]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

Off the top of my head, there's the question of "Why isn't telepathic interrogation standard for all captured VIPER agents, thus forcing all Nests to adopt the described antitelepathy precautions??"

 

I can answer this one myself, though: "Because there aren't enough sanctioned telepaths of sufficient power to go around." IOW, most of the time all you could get for scanning the average VIPER agent is a normal or heroic normal with Telepathy 6d6, not enough to get much useful without extensive interrogation.

Also the concept of Need To Know Informationâ„¢ obviously comes into play here. A telepathic sift of a rank and file VIPER mook's mind isn't usually worth the time since it's highly unlikely to yield any relivant infromation you don't already have (note that I said highly unlikely since there's an outside chance that a bottom-runger might have overheard something important and simply chose to keep his or her mouth shut so as not to get in trouble, but logically this should be a rarity). Even elites and officers are only going to have as much 411 as the Supreme Serpent and the other big wigs deem them worthy of having (and that assumes they don't make a run for it or commit suicide the moment they see things going south). Besides, who's to say a particularly incompetent agent wasn't loaded up with misinformation by his boss(es) and sent out for the express purpose of getting captured?

[MitchellS]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

My main issue is that none of the magicians or the scientists out there have figured out the development of supertech is dependent on magical forces' date=' or for that matter, superpowers in general. My own feeling is that there would be at least one or two people who would make the connection.[/quote']

I would imagine there are several people who have figured that out; most definately the Archmage would know this. But it's not something anyone would want to be common knowledge [even in mystic circles] due to the fact that you might have some crazy anarchist mystic who will try to hold the mystical energy for ransom, or worse yet attempt top cork it.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

If Captain Future always wears a bright red spandex suit and half mask, his glowing force-field shining around him, well, that's a very memorable image. Even if your quiet co-worker Bill Smith is also a tall, athletic guy, you're not likely to make the connection, at least not until you sit down with photographs of both of them and look carefully. Lois and Jimmy should have connected Superman to Clark as soon as they talked to Supes for five minutes; OTOH, a guy who casually knows Clark from the office might watch Superman flying by quickly on TV for years and not make the connection until someone pointed it out.

The main problem these days is that there would be a ton of people, starting with the Federal government on down who would want to know who the overpowered vigilante in spandex really is. They'd start taking high resolution photographs and then using computer processing to digitally peel back the mask and work out what they look like underneath.

 

I agree for the casual person on the street, sure, that isn't going to be an issue, but against the government, that's a whole different story. Especially as the government knows that if a certain class of paranormal threat shows up, Captain Stupendous is going to show up. Expect one high flying helicopter overhead with a telescopic camera tracking his progress after the battle (assuming they're a flyer, people on car/foot if CS doesn't fly). Even better for them if the villain draws blood so they can get a sample.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

Also the concept of Need To Know Informationâ„¢ obviously comes into play here. A telepathic sift of a rank and file VIPER mook's mind isn't usually worth the time since it's highly unlikely to yield any relivant infromation you don't already have (note that I said highly unlikely since there's an outside chance that a bottom-runger might have overheard something important and simply chose to keep his or her mouth shut so as not to get in trouble' date=' but logically this should be a rarity). Even elites and officers are only going to have as much 411 as the Supreme Serpent and the other big wigs deem them worthy of having (and that assumes they don't make a run for it or commit suicide the moment they see things going south). Besides, who's to say a particularly incompetent agent wasn't loaded up with misinformation by his boss(es) and sent out for the express purpose of getting captured?[/quote']

 

Oh, this is certainly true to an extent; its just the default level of NTK restriction is less than if you expected every captured agent to be fully mindvacuumed. For one thing, serious measures would be taken to ensure that as few agents as possible actually know where the Nest *is*.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

The main problem these days is that there would be a ton of people, starting with the Federal government on down who would want to know who the overpowered vigilante in spandex really is. They'd start taking high resolution photographs and then using computer processing to digitally peel back the mask and work out what they look like underneath.

 

I agree for the casual person on the street, sure, that isn't going to be an issue, but against the government, that's a whole different story. Especially as the government knows that if a certain class of paranormal threat shows up, Captain Stupendous is going to show up. Expect one high flying helicopter overhead with a telescopic camera tracking his progress after the battle (assuming they're a flyer, people on car/foot if CS doesn't fly). Even better for them if the villain draws blood so they can get a sample.

 

Of course, do we actually have any information that DOSPA *doesn't* do this??

[OddHat]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

Of course' date=' do we actually have any information that DOSPA *doesn't* do this?? [/quote']

 

Exactly. Considering how Superhuman Registration works in the CU, I'd expect that the government figures out the "secret" identities of most high profile Supers within a few months of their first public appearance, unless those Supers take pains not to be photographed in both their civillian and heroic identities. Even then, it's probably only a matter of time. On the other hand, government agencies should know that heavy hande recruitment techniques have the potential to turn into PR nightmares, as well as carrying a real risk of driving "heroes" further underground. I'd expect them to sit on that information unless the Super in question appeared to be a danger to the public, or until they could find a practical use for it.

[Powerhouse]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

"most definately the Archmage would know this."

 

Except that he's free-floating atoms in the wastes of Russia.

 

I guess we'll have to ask Witchfire in a decade or so.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

 

Exactly. Considering how Superhuman Registration works in the CU' date=' I'd expect that the government figures out the "secret" identities of most high profile Supers within a few months of their first public appearance, unless those Supers take pains not to be photographed in both their civillian and heroic identities. Even then, it's probably only a matter of time. On the other hand, government agencies should know that heavy hande recruitment techniques have the potential to turn into PR nightmares, as well as carrying a real risk of driving "heroes" further underground. I'd expect them to sit on that information unless the Super in question appeared to be a danger to the public, or until they could find a practical use for it.[/quote']

Actually, the PR nightmare comes in when someone cracks the database containing these secret identities and offers to auction it off to the highest bidder....