*inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

[Metaphysician]

We shall assume a meeting encounter, with neither side surprised nor particularly prepared.

 

Assume all fliers start about a half move up in the air, that the Crowns are each within a half move of at least one of the others, and that the two sides start out about, oh, say, 20" apart.

[Haerandir]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Well, I guess it just goes to show that you can find inspiration in the oddest places...

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Please. God. No.

[OddHat]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Character, Dex, SPD

 

Gravitar, 25, 6

 

Dark Seraph, 23, 6

 

Eclipse, 23, 6

 

Bloodstone, 23, 5

 

Force, 21, 5

 

Phoenix, 20, 6

 

Tremblor, 20, 4

 

Gravitar's Phase 12 action?

[Haerandir]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

At the risk of contributing to the delinquency of a thread, I've taken a few moments to glance at the character writeups. On the surface, this looks like a much tougher fight for Gravitar than the Eurostar scenario. Dark Seraph alone is scary to her, with his 6d6 BOD Drain and his 9d6 Ego Attack. Plus he's a lot tougher than Mentalla, so there's less chance that she can drop him in one or two shots (15 BOD, 70 STUN, 35 PD > 11 BOD, 30 STUN 24 PD). His big weakness is that he has no PD Force Field or Force Wall to interrupt her 9d6 NND.

 

The rest of the Crowns have the same problem Eurostar has of having relatively little in the way of attacks that can hurt her, but they're much harder for her to manipulate (her Flight UAA powers are ineffective against all the Crowns who have Desolid, for instance). Also, Force DOES have a Force Wall, which can be used to protect Dark Seraph from The Big Squeeze. The Crowns are also replete with interference powers, like Darkness, and have good mobility compared to Eurostar (Temblor is the only Crown who doesn't fly, but he does have two different ways of melding with the Earth). Of course, as long as Gravitar can stay at least 8" off the ground, Temblor might as well not even be there.

 

I don't have the level of anal retentiveness to actually map out the fight and try to determine the interactions between the various powers, attacks and defenses in this match, but on a cursory glance, my nod goes to Dark Seraph and his Ooky Friends. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise if someone actually does play it out and discovers something I've missed.

[Haerandir]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Gravitar's Phase 12 action?

 

My first instinct is to have her put her CSLs in OCV, half move up to keep herself out of Temblor's Flash range, push her 18d6 EB, and try to nail Force. He's one of the softest targets on the field, and his presence keeps her from using her 9d6 NND lullaby on the others.

 

This gives her OCV 14 against (assuming he has his levels in DCV) DCV 9, for a 16- chance to hit with 20d6 damage against PD 23, 50 STUN and CON 25. Average roll of 70 on 20d6 nets 47 STUN, and Force stunned for the phase with 3 STUN left. If she gets lucky, she can take him out with this one shot.

 

Anyone see a better plan?

 

(Edit: Forgot range mods. If, instead of moving up, Gravitar half-moves to close with Force, she can get within 5 hexes of him and only take a -2 RMod, reducing her to-hit to 14-)

[Enforcer84]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Run!

[OddHat]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

My first instinct is to have her put her CSLs in OCV, half move up to keep herself out of Temblor's Flash range, push her 18d6 EB, and try to nail Force. He's one of the softest targets on the field, and his presence keeps her from using her 9d6 NND lullaby on the others.

 

This gives her OCV 14 against (assuming he has his levels in DCV) DCV 9, for a 16- chance to hit with 20d6 damage against PD 23, 50 STUN and CON 25. Average roll of 70 on 20d6 nets 47 STUN, and Force stunned for the phase with 3 STUN left. If she gets lucky, she can take him out with this one shot.

 

Anyone see a better plan?

 

(Edit: Forgot range mods. If, instead of moving up, Gravitar half-moves to close with Force, she can get within 5 hexes of him and only take a -2 RMod, reducing her to-hit to 14-)

 

Assume all attack rolls are 11, all damage rolls are 3.5 per die.

 

Any other suggestions, or does Gravitar hit Force on Phase 12?

[Chuckg]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

My contribution to keeping this shorter than the other one will be to stay out of it entirely.

 

Besides, after the last couple of days, I'm tired.

[Haerandir]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Now, now, Enforcer. There's no reason this one has to go south, unless people actively decide to take a position and defend it regardless of the facts or to whether or not people are listening to them. Let's wait for the pain to begin before we start running and screaming, shall we?

 

Another reason Gravitar has to take out Force first: He has Missile Deflection, at Range, vs. all ranged attacks. Meaning that AFTER he's set up his force wall around Dark Seraph and himself, he can sit back and deflect all of her attacks against anyone until he gets bored or blows a roll. Good thing she's got a meaningful CV advantage over him, but even with that, it looks bad for our favorite Mistress of Gravity.

 

Edit: Frankly, I don't there's really any point in trying to game this fight out. The only reason it made any sense to do it in Gravitar vs. Eurostar was because there's a legitimate pass/fail option for each side. Against the Crowns of Krim, there are at least 4 team members she simply HAS to take out, and all of them can stand at least one hit from her best attack without dropping, especially if you mandate average rolls. With average rolls, Dark Seraph takes her down in 2 shots with his ranged BOD Drain, unless she goes all defense with her CSL's, then nobody hits anybody.

[Kirby]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Gravitar's Phase 12 action?

Without having Tactics, I'd think Gravitar's Phase 12 action would pretty much always be her 50 STR TK AoE 11", especially against teams. Gravitar has KS: Superhuman world 14-, with Dark Seraph having Superhuman world 11- *and* KS: Mystic World 13-. I would think that Gravitar would know the Crowns of Krim were the most powerful nefarious team, but not know much about them and their powers (other than being mystical in nature), while Dark Seraph might know Gravitar is a powerful superhuman with gravity powers. I would treat the combat as neither side knows the other's strengths or weaknesses. Gravitar's TK might be enough to pin them all (I think Temblor has 50 STR?), but I didn't read much on them. I know at least one has desolidification + flight, and I think two or more (maybe just one) has Missile Deflection. Can MD be used to deflect the TK?

[Kirby]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

We shall assume a meeting encounter, with neither side surprised nor particularly prepared.

 

Assume all fliers start about a half move up in the air, that the Crowns are each within a half move of at least one of the others, and that the two sides start out about, oh, say, 20" apart.

PS: Did you mean "*inspired my other threads*" or "inspired by other threads*"?

[Haerandir]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Ugh... I promised myself I wouldn't do it, but I've spent the past hour playing out different Gravitar/Krim scenarios, and they all end in defeat for Gravitar. She just doesn't have a plan for the combo of Dark Seraph and Eclipse, who can go both go desolid to avoid all her attacks, match her move for move, and either blind her (Eclipse) or kill her in two shots (Dark Seraph). The presence of Bloodstone and Phoenix as fall-back plans and Force as a spoiler just make it more certain.

 

If you assume 11s for every to-hit roll, she can go all defensive and force a stalemate.

 

Alternatively, she can run the second she sees them. They can't stop her.

 

Or she can stay and die.

 

The Crowns of Krim have every advantage that Eurostar lacks. They have multiple characters who can do damage that bypasses her defenses (Bloodstone and Dark Seraph). Eurostar also has two (Mentalla and Fiacho), but the Crowns' are better in almost every way. The members of the Crowns of Krim who can't hurt her physically still have powers that can hamper her tactically. Apart from Temblor (ignore Temblor, he doesn't exist), every member of the Crowns flies and has ranged attacks that Gravitar has to worry about.

 

Dark Seraph solo is an extremely tough fight for Gravitar, but she could pull it off with some lucky rolls. Add Eclipse and she's almost certain to die. Anyone else (except Temblor) basically just stacks the odds further and further against her.

 

The real killer is Desolidification. She has no plan to get around Desolid. Any time that she spends attacking the non-desolid members of the group is time Dark Seraph can spend killing her. Any time she spends duelling with Dark Seraph is time Phoenix and Eclipse can spend blinding her. Once she's blind, her advantage in combat value is nullified, and she's helpless. Even if she somehow comes up with a plan to deal with all the actual threats on the team, Bloodstone will eventually wear her down with his gimpy (yet broken) 1d6 RKA NND Does Body 0 END Continuous attack.

 

Run, Gravi, run!

[Haerandir]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

PS: Did you mean "*inspired my other threads*" or "inspired by other threads*"?

 

I've been assuming he meant 'by'.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

As the fool who first posited Doctor Destroyer versus Takofanes, I am going to scrupulously mind my own business.

[Kirby]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

As the fool who first posited Doctor Destroyer versus Takofanes' date=' I am going to scrupulously mind my own business. [/quote']

Well, as long as you're not tooting your own horn.

 

(But geez, 173 pages! )

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

...

The Crowns of Krim have every advantage that Eurostar lacks. ...

So, naturally...Crowns vs Euro is next, right?

 

But seriously, folks, am I the only one seeing pushed attacks for an opening just a bit wrong, especially for an overconfident character? Perhaps my vision of pushing is too limited.

[Bloodstone]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

I don't think she could take Dark Seraph one on one, so adding all the other Crowns just makes it even more futile.

 

The Crowns all have power defense, so most of her "best" attacks don't work at all against any of them. Her most damaging Energy Blast only averages 14 STUN after defenses against DS and he has 70 STUN. Her Crushing NND is only slightly more effective on him due to his 50% Resistant Damage Reduction. She does 15.75 stun per attack with it, so it will take her 5 attacks to KO him assuming he takes no recoveries during that time.

 

By contrast, he can easily Drain her dead in just two attacks assuming he can activate his Black Magic (are we letting him apply his Overall levels to the activation roll, cause it's even easier then?). Her only real chance is to use her superior Flight speed to keep out of range and snipe at him, butthen DS just switches to using his Ego attac which suffers no range penalties and also takes her out in just two hits.

 

Add in the Darkness/Flashes, Entangles and NND's of the rest of the Crowns and it's over. Fast.

[Gary]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

The average ego blast from Dark Seraph will Stun Gravitar. She can't take him out in one shot, especially with the rest of the Crowns to help him. This is an easy fight for the team.

[Haerandir]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

But seriously' date=' folks, am I the only one seeing pushed attacks for an opening just a bit wrong, especially for an overconfident character? Perhaps my vision of pushing is too limited.[/quote']

 

Well, I agree, but I was starting from the premise of "find a way that Gravitar COULD win, to see if it's worth playing out". But, as Bloodstone points out, she really can't even take Dark Seraph. I've been toying with writing a little fiction piece in which DS challenges her to single combat and spends a turn Desolid, laughing and taunting her, before he goes solid and starts trading 10 BOD damage to her for 16 STUN damage to him and seeing how long she lasts.

 

(Edit: Indeed, since I was forgetting Force's 25% Damage Reduction, she can't even one-shot him with a Pushed Multiple Power Attack. It really is that desperate for her, even though she probably won't realize it.)

 

If people want to see if Gravitar can take out other published teams, I'd nominate the Ultimates next.

 

As for the Crown matchup, "Nothing to see here, move along."

[name_tamer]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

If people want to see if Gravitar can take out other published teams' date=' I'd nominate the Ultimates next. [/quote']

 

What, no love for the Gravitar vs. GRAB matchup?

[Haerandir]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Sure, we'll tack 'em on to the list. At this rate, we'll have run out of matchups by New Years, though.

[Metaphysician]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Quick question: I can't remember for sure what his CVs are, but thats two *successful* attacks by Dark Seraph with the Body Drain.

 

Is he actually sure of hitting with it enough to dedicate levels to the activation roll??

[Kirby]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

Quick question: I can't remember for sure what his CVs are, but thats two *successful* attacks by Dark Seraph with the Body Drain.

 

Is he actually sure of hitting with it enough to dedicate levels to the activation roll??

Dark Seraph has Base OCV/DCV of 8, +2 Overall levels, +4 w/Black Magic MP.

 

His Ravaging the Soul has a 15- Activation.

[Haerandir]

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

 

The answer is: It depends on how Gravitar's levels are assigned on any given phase. She has a base 8 CV, +2 DCV and +6 with her gravitic powers. This is why she can assign her levels all to defense and force a stalemate (assuming average to-hit rolls).

 

However, if Dark Seraph puts his levels into OCV and just keeps swinging, he'll hit her eventually, and she folds up faster than he does in that race.

 

BTW: The level-assignment thing is one reason why I haven't bothered to game it out phase-by-phase. There's just too many guessing-games involved. Essentially, if both sides assign all their levels to offense, everyone hits with ever attack (on average). If both sides assign all their levels to defense, then no one ever hits (on average, again). If they change their CSL assignments phase-by-phase to react to changing conditions, then it just becomes a game of 6-card monte. Eventually, Gravitar will guess wrong too many times and either take the second Soul Ravaging hit, or get hit by Phoenix's Flash, or Eclipse's Darkness UAA, and the question of how she assigns her levels become much less of an issue, as her CVs are halved.

 

In any case, the answer remains, "The best Gravitar can hope for is a stalemate, and she'll only get that if you guarantee average rolls to hit."