Power Question: Purple Man

[Snake Gandhi]

I've been pondering a bit about how to build this kind of power, and I must admit I'm a bit stumped.

 

For those not in the know, Purple Man is a Marvel character who exudes certain pheromones that make anyone around him do whatever he says.

 

Now, that sounds like an AoE Mind Control, Always On, but not quite. See, the guy has used it one various mentalists (including Jean and Nate Grey IIR) and they where pretty much as vulnerable as anyone else. The only folks who I can recall resisting it are Daredevil and Dr Doom, or folks who are in a sealed environment like Iron Man. So its a Mind Control, Mental Defenses don't seem to affect it at all, though having an extremely high Ego can let you fight it off. The only thing I could think of was maybe a NND Mind Control, but I'm not even sure thats legal.

 

Anyone have any thought?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

First off, you're making assumptions on the builds of the people affected by it. Having mental powers doesn't necessarily mean you've got a high ego. Jean Grey in particular seems to have been pretty frequently messed with by mental powers - Mesmero and Mastermind come to mind, no pun intended. And it's quite likely that Marvel "psychic defenses" don't provide any resistance to chemical/pheromone based mind control.

 

Couple of options - NND to bypass the mental defense. Expensive, and in most cases you'd be better off just buying more dice for the same points.

 

Alternatively, the GM looked at the special effect, and made a ruling that it had a +/- 0 Advantage/Limit of " 'psychic' shielding not set up to handle pheromones, but other ways to avoid it entirely" . So completely sealed? 100% protected. Partially sealed? Partially protected, get some defense.

[Chuckg]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Well, Doom did seem to resist it on a naked EGO, so yeah.

[OddHat]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

It's an NND Mind Control vs Self Contained Breathing or similar immunities to Pheremones. It's expensive, but legal. As it is already a mind control and the defense is as common as Mental Defense in most campaigns, the GM may choose to permit the NND to be a +1/2 "Equally common defense" rather than the full +1.

 

You could use a very high (50+) PRE with "Only vs targets vulnerable to pheremones" and some massive PRE skills, but the NND mind control is the cleanest build.

[McCoy]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

At one time there seemed to be a visual component as well, Daredevil was immune because he couldn't see him, and in a couple of cases it seemed to wear off as soon as he was out of sight.

[CBikle]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

You could also treat it as a huge amount of extra PRE with appropriate limits.

[MitchellS]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Since the pheromones are effectively a drug I'd go with the following build:

 

12d6 Mind Control, based on con: -1, nnd [need not breathe or no smell]: +1

[Force]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Since the pheromones are effectively a drug I'd go with the following build:

 

12d6 Mind Control, based on con: -1, nnd [need not breathe or no smell]: +1

 

I was also thinking this was based on con as well.

 

Good build.

[Blue]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

I was thinking the "based on CON" modifier. That's the standard way to go about a mind controlling drug, which is sort of what pheremones are.

[Beetle]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

I was thinking the "based on CON" modifier. That's the standard way to go about a mind controlling drug' date=' which is sort of what pheremones are.[/quote']That makes sense, except that in the Emperor Doom graphic novel they made a big point about PM's power being resisted by willpower. Cap, Hawkeye and the Wasp were able to be freed because of their willpower, while Tony Stark had trouble overcoming the effects. On the other hand, Wonder Man wasn't bothered by it because he doesn't breathe.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Yeah, its definitely still Ego-based. Its just, if your biology is such that it don't work, it don't work.

[Lethosos]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

I'd find a way to make it first hit through CON; then let everything else come through EGO rolls to resist the effect after being affected.

 

Quick question... if you break free of the pheremones after you're first effected, are you still under the risk of being effected again? That's an important thing to know.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Perhaps it is just coincidence, but I find the timing of this thread and the Avengers: Generation 3 strangely unsettling...

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Perhaps it is just coincidence' date=' but I find the timing of this thread and the Avengers: Generation 3 strangely unsettling... [/quote']

 

Heh. Maybe it'll be the offspring of Purple Man and She-Hulk. Purple skinned brick with massive mind control powers and tattered green pants.

[Lethosos]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

The Incredible Bulk, now with Mentala's Mind Helmet?

 

Ergh... bad idea.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Heh. Maybe it'll be the offspring of Purple Man and She-Hulk. Purple skinned brick with massive mind control powers and tattered green pants.

Horrifying. Simply Horrifying.

[Trained Chicken]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

At one time there seemed to be a visual component as well' date=' Daredevil was immune because he couldn't see him, and in a couple of cases it seemed to wear off as soon as he was out of sight.[/quote']

 

In Purple Man's very first appearance (Daredevil #4), Purple Man couldn't control Daredevil because DD was able to mentally resist his attacks, which he described as a kind of hypnotism. Everyone else was in his thrall as long as they could see him, and for a little while longer.

 

During their climactic battle, Purple Man asked a crowd of people to attack Daredevil, and they were going to- until DD draped a plastic curtain completely over Purple Man, at which time, everyone snapped out of it.

 

It's definitely visual.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Actually I think his powers suffered from a cross-writer "re-interpretation" which is to say somewhere along the way he was just changed without recourse to continuity.

 

The modern Purple Man and his daughter Persuasion, who both have the same power set, have explicitly been stated to control via pheremones.

 

One way to build the Purple Man power that circumvents standard Mental Defenses and affects mentalists pretty well, but bounces against strong willed individuals is as a SUPPRESS vs EGO.

 

People with a NEGATIVE EGO do what they are told.

 

Power Defense would protect against it, which may or may not make sense, depending on how a particular group perceives the use of Power Defense. However as OddHat pointed out NND at the +1/2 Level can be used to circumvent this.

 

 

Something like this:

 

Purple Man Pheremones: Suppress EGO 14d6 (standard effect: 42 points), EGO Only Reduced Vs Purple Man (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Invisible Power Effects, SFX Only (Fully Invisible; +1/2), No Normal Defense ([Equally Common Defense]; Self Contained Breathing, No Sense of Smell, Abnormal Physiology; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (21" Radius; +1) (280 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Cannot Be Used Cumulatively (-1/2); Real Cost: 140

 

 

Expensive, but it was basically his only Power so thats not an impediment. Suppressing 21 EGO would reduce most people to pliable thralls, but individuals like Doom with 21+ EGO can "shrug it off" because they are not reduced to negative EGO, though they are still vulnerable to ancillary effects of having a low EGO vs the Purple Man, such as having to use their PRE to resist PRE Attacks instead of their EGO.

 

If the Purple Man had other Mental Powers to combo with this he'd be unstoppable, but since he doesn't really have anything else to fall back on save for some skills and normal human anatomy, he's up a creek vs people he can't effect.

 

 

EDIT: Note, Daredevils altered sensory organs would likely qualify as appropriately "Abnormal Physiology".

 

 

Also note that I scaled this Power to Suppress 21 EGO so that it would affect all but the strongest willed of normal humans -- typically only some heroes, villains and the occassional significant NPC would have enough willpower to resist it. However in some campaigns -21 EGO may not do the trick. The GM of such a campaign could still use the Power, simply by making a list of the notable people in their setting that should not be affected or be minimally affected due to strong willpower, then looking at their EGO's and scaling the Power to equal but not exceed the lowest EGO on the list.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

One way to build the Purple Man power that circumvents standard Mental Defenses and affects mentalists pretty well, but bounces against strong willed individuals is as a SUPPRESS vs EGO.

 

People with a NEGATIVE EGO do what they are told.

 

Something like this:

 

Purple Man Pheremones: Suppress EGO 14d6 (standard effect: 42 points), EGO Only Reduced Vs Purple Man (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Invisible Power Effects, SFX Only (Fully Invisible; +1/2), No Normal Defense ([Equally Common Defense]; Self Contained Breathing, No Sense of Smell, Abnormal Physiology; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (21" Radius; +1) (280 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Cannot Be Used Cumulatively (-1/2); Real Cost: 140

 

I like this outside the box construct, especially since it seems consistent with how Purple Man's victims recently described the situation in the comics. There are a couple of problem,s however.

 

First, doesn't Ego below zero still allow an Ego roll to act normally (albeit a roll that can't be better than 9-)? PM probably needs to reduce Ego further. Of course, on 350 points, the power can easily be upgraded.

 

Second, it does last for a while out of PM's sight in recent interpretations (as KS notes, the character seems to have been retconned dramatically from his initial appearance). Maybe this needs to be a Drain, rather than a Suppress (or have a Drain component).

 

Third, if we make those changes, immunity becomes much less likely. The easy answer there is to Limit it to targets below a certain Ego so it won't work at all on those characters who should be strong-willed enough to resist it (a very limited pool, so a fairly high Ego).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

They can make EGO Rolls, but they use their current negative EGO. I'd have to check the book to make sure, but I've always adjudicated that as subtracting from the 9- Roll. EGO -10/5 = 9+-2 = 7-. At -30 EGO you would need a 3.

 

-21 EGO takes the average 8 EGO person to -13 which would give them an EGO Roll of 6-. Thats a 10% chance of making a particular EGO Roll. The chance of making 2 consecutively is pretty slim, so its possible for someone to balk at a command, but if it is repeated they will almost certainly fail.

 

A 10 EGO person is better off at -11 with a 7-, which is a 16% chance of success, but still likely to fail repeated commands.

 

The thing to keep in mind here is that this isnt a MENTAL Power, and the EGO Roll isnt a BREAKOUT Roll. Success does not end the effect, it merely resists one command.

 

 

However, increasing the Power to reduce EGO by -27 (2 more dice at standard effect) would certainly be conceivable. People with 8 EGO would have 5- EGO Rolls (~5%) and people with 10 EGO would have 6- EGO Rolls (~10%).

 

 

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As far as Drain vs Suppress, an AoE Suppress works like you want -- when people leave the area they are no longer affected, and when other people enter the area they are automatically affected. Suppress is a Constant Power; applying AoE to it does fun things. Conversely, if the PM is knocked out or staggered the Power shuts off until he can reactivate it.

 

Using Drain would not accomplish what you wan't because even if the Purple Man died, the targets would continue to be affected until the Drain's FADE rate accrued back. Also, to get the AoE working correctly you'd also need to make the Drain Continuous. The benefit of Drain is that it is fire and forget, but the downsides make it ill suited to a Power of this sort.

 

 

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To make it more of an LOS power, the Conforming Modifier could be applied to the AoE, which would make it deform when it encounters walls and such, but also fill space where its total volume allows it to do so. This makes a lot of sense for pheremones, which are airborne, and I probably should have thought of that in the first place. This isnt exactly the same as LOS, but the net effect is that terrain would play a role in getting out of the PM's reach.

 

For instance, if you were on the other side of a closed window looking out at the PM even if you were in the Radius of his power according to the AoE, with conforming you would be safe unless there was an aperature that the effect could flow thru and still reach you. Similarly, if you were able to get around a corner from the PM depending on how the volume of the Conforming AoE is currently displaced, you could get out of his effect.

 

A GM could also rule that the Conforming is somewhat affected by prevailing winds / air flow, according to its SFX. Im not sure if anyone has ever defeated / resisted PM in such a fashion though. Would a character like Storm that can generate wind be able to blow all the pheremone laden air away from themselves?

 

EDIT: This reminds me of a character from the Wild Cards setting that had pheremone powers very similar to the Purple Man. I can't remember his "superhero" name, but he was one of the Four Aces in the 40's. He was encountered years later and it was implied / stated that the prevalence of central air conditioning played havok with his powers when used indoors.

 

I normally don't bother with Conforming because the benefit of using it from a logical perspective is outweighed by the pain of keeping track of it in game (particularly with large AoE's like this one), but in this case its probably warranted.

[Gary]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

You can always do the cheap copout, an area effect Transform with appropriate limitations on who can be affected.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Actually I think his powers suffered from a cross-writer "re-interpretation" which is to say somewhere along the way he was just changed without recourse to continuity.

 

Maybe he had a limitation "only LOS" on it originally to save points, but bought it off over time as he realized more about how his powers worked and bought off the "mental block". (radiation accident)

[Gary]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

You can combine the Ego Suppress with a large Change Environment that gives minuses to Ego Rolls.

 

This way, only people below a certain Ego would need to make rolls, but you can set it so that it'd be virtually impossible for those people to actually make the needed roll.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

You can combine the Ego Suppress with a large Change Environment that gives minuses to Ego Rolls.

 

This way, only people below a certain Ego would need to make rolls, but you can set it so that it'd be virtually impossible for those people to actually make the needed roll.

Too true.

[Snake Gandhi]

Re: Power Question: Purple Man

 

Perhaps it is just coincidence' date=' but I find the timing of this thread and the Avengers: Generation 3 strangely unsettling... [/quote']Don't worry. My only real exposure to Purple Man is Alias, which he is a sick, sadistic bastard in. If he ever showed up in a game of mine it would be for the sole purpose of the players kicking the living **** out of him.