Boll Weevil Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 So? Who would win in a fight? Obisidian or Ironclad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad I'll have to give it to Ironclad (thanks to those extra 100 points, which let him purchase Find Weakness). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad I think Ironclad would win out, but its been a long time since I've seen Obsidian's stats so I could be forgetting something crucial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Between the 250-point Obsidian in the BBB, and the 350-point Ironclad in the Champions genre book, I'd have to give it to Ironclad. He's actually a pretty efficiently-designed brick, with good CV in HTH, and his Find Weakness is pretty devastating. Against the 450-plus-point Obsidian in Champions Universe First Edition, I'd say that Ironclad is overmatched. That Obsidian is much stronger and tougher overall than Ironclad, has comparable HTH skill, has Lack of Weakness IIRC, and his Martial Art "Hiadman" makes him tough to hurt and very effective in close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemurion Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad I'd go with Obsidian just because he does not have the forehead ridges. But that's just a personal pet peeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marketeer Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Agree with the "which version of Obsidian?" line of reasoning. The 250-pt. Obsidian suffers from buying a significant chunk of his STR as Growth and Density Increase, so he's not only 100 pts. weaker, he's inefficiently built. The 450-pt. Obsidian still has a big chunk of his points tied down in Growth and Density Increase, but he's still got enough extra points on top of that to make up for the handicap. In terms of sheer fanboyish "who do I prefer?" style, Obsidian all the way, I like the "Brick scientist" schtick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boll Weevil Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Yes sorry, I used the 4th ed CU version and, at some point, converted to 5th. I had forgotten the Big O had paid for Growth and DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad I'd give the win to the 450 point Obsidian but it's not as easy as one would think. Obsidian doesn't have lack of weakness so if Ironclad gets the find weakness roll Obsidian becomes a 3-hit target. Obsidian goes first but they have the same CV with levels. So with the Find Weakness they're both 3-hits to out. It just comes down to luck of rolling and combat maneuvers like Block. If Obsidian misses once and Ironclad doesn't, Ironclad wins. Based on that I'll assume a 400 point Ironclad from the CU Update will probably kick Obsidian's butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad In terms of sheer fanboyish "who do I prefer?" style' date=' Obsidian all the way, I like the "Brick scientist" schtick.[/quote'] Yes, Obsidian is a more rounded character than Ironclad, particularly the more experienced version. I'm also fond of his "noblesse oblige" attitude toward being a hero. And I do like the idea of an entire alien race that's notably superhuman - that concept has largely been excised in the Fifth Edition Champions Universe, I guess to make it more compatible with the Star HERO line. I've also had enough of "alien gladiators" in Champions. We currently have Ironclad, Herculan and Firewing, and past incarnations included Quasar, Myrmidon, the Champ, and the Remover. There's nothing wrong with the concept in itself, but repetition of it over the years has taken the bloom off the rose for me, and I admit that that colors my reaction to Ironclad. Well, that and his ruby slippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Gotta throw my vote in for Obsidian. I liked the character much more than Ironclad ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Obsidian. He'd have Seeker backing him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Obsidian. He'd have Seeker backing him up. Cause everyone needs a weapon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marketeer Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Obsidian. He'd have Seeker backing him up. Seeker's like a STUN Battery... nobody attacks anybody else until Seeker goes down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Seeing as I'd rewrite Obsidian to 350 pt 5th ed revised rules to make it equal. Obsidian. Because he rocks and Ironclad doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Obsidian is made of rock. Ironclad is made of metal. Scissors are made of metal. Rock beats scissors. Therefore, logically, Obsidian beats Ironclad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Seeing as I'd rewrite Obsidian to 350 pt 5th ed revised rules to make it equal. Obsidian. Because he rocks and Ironclad doesn't Ironclad is the 350 point Obsidian, only with different disads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Obsidian is made of rock. Ironclad is made of metal. Scissors are made of metal. Rock beats scissors. Therefore, logically, Obsidian beats Ironclad. That's funny. I'd rep you for it, but no luck today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Manhattan Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Feb 21st, '06 03:59 PM Supreme Serpent Obsidian is made of rock. Ironclad is made of metal. Scissors are made of metal. Rock beats scissors. Therefore, logically, Obsidian beats Ironclad. You have an interesting definition of "Logic". But I agree with you completely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boll Weevil Posted February 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Obsidian is made of rock. Ironclad is made of metal. Scissors are made of metal. Rock beats scissors. Therefore, logically, Obsidian beats Ironclad. Dude, you just blew my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerhouse Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad As noted, the "alien gladiator" thing is MAJORLY old while the alien brick/scientist isn't so much. Also, Obsidian just has a simple but cooler look and he's smart enough to not be overconfident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Going by the writeups, I'm afraid Ironclad would mop the floor with low-end Obsidian, and battle high-end Obsidian to a standstill. Which is a shame since I feel that Obsidian got a better concept, more striking looks, and a cooler name to boot. And I second LL - the concept of a superpowered alien race is a lovely comic book classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad If Ironclad misses his Find Weakness roll, it's all over but the crying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad If Ironclad misses his Find Weakness roll' date=' it's all over but the crying.[/quote'] I'd certainly hope so. There's not too many 450 point characters who can't beat 350 point ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad I did a series of these a while ago Here are the links Power Armor (+ Gargoyle?) http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3964&highlight=Champions Blasters http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4319&highlight=Champions Bricks http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4536&highlight=Champions Mystics http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4815&highlight=Champions Martial Artists http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5040&highlight=Champions Misc http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5244&highlight=Champions Teams http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5841&highlight=Champions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Re: Old vs new: Obsidian vs Ironclad Ironclad is the 350 point Obsidian' date=' only with different disads. [/quote'] And a klingon's head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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