help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

[Lockdown]

ive played with a group that is 14 years of solid champions, it has waxed and waned at times but fairly consistant. The current problem is that since it is fairly free formed as a group, one of the players is around the 1000 point area and the rest of us are in the 350-450 point area. I know the gm has been giving hints on its time to retire the charicter, but its no longer fun when this charicter plays becauase he can take out stuff that would just SMOOSH us as a group?

 

Whats the best way for one player to tell another player that it may be time to put the dog down???? I dont want to be rude... but its just not fun at this time??

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Talking to the other player about retiring the character is really the GMs job.

 

As a player, I'd suggest dealing with it more in-play, emphasizing for the GM how much of a disparity there is. Unless the game was planned that way, you shouldn't be a group of sidekicks.

 

Villains show up? Let Captain Thousand handle them while you watch.

 

Emergency alert? "You handle it Cap, let us know if you get into trouble, we'll be busy in our secret IDs. We appreciate you being powerful enough to allow us to resume our normal lives."

 

If he's not around, don't call him in. Gather the rest of the team and try to deal with it. If you get repeatedly easily beat down without Captain Thousand, maybe the GM will get more of a clue.

 

If he's around, send him to do one thing while everyone else does another. "You go stop the alien fleet Cap, we'll deal with the ones that make it to the surface."

 

Even if he doesn't end up retiring the character, it really should be two seperate campaigns, with you folks making characters closer to Captain Thousand's level doing higher-powered stuff, and that player making a new character to run with the lower-powered group.

[CBikle]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Why didn't the GM just increase the rest of the group's point-levels to the 800-900 pt. range ? Then the disparity wouldn't be as obvious.

[Blue]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

I think what you just said here is what you tell him.

 

"It's just not fun to play when you run that character because he does everything for us. Why not try something new?"

 

Frankly, I can't believe your GM would allow such a power discrepancy.

[Kabluey]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Obviously the best idea is for the GM to handle it. Perhaps by hinting less and just being straightforward about it. At the very least, he should stop giving the guy xp if he hasn't already. After all, the adventures can't really be all that challenging for him, can they?

 

As for what you can do, I guess it just depends on why the guy is still playing the character. If he just gets off on having a 1,000-pt character, there doesn't seem to be much you can do. The GM will just have to convince him to retire the character or risk losing the rest of you due to lack of interest.

 

If he just likes the character a lot, perhaps he could introduce a 350-point version - the Son of Captain Thousand. At the very least, I'd be upfront with him. If he really is a friend, then he should understand - or at least not be so annoyed that he quits the group.

[David Johnston]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

It may be necessary to have one of those Avengers break-up moments. All the other characters resign from the team for various reasons (including "I didn't become a superhero just to hold Captain Thousand's cape"). Then, either Cap gets himself some team-mates who are tougher, or Cap's player gets a clue and makes up a new character or agrees to depower his old one, or the campaign ends and you start talking about what the next one should be.

[wagnern]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

ok, the gm just needs the galatic guardians to recrute captan thousand to help defend reality.

[Blue]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Heh. That works.

 

"Captain Thou, mind if I call ya CK? CK, this little piddly stuff can be handled by the other guys. Come to far off Zen-La with me, where I hear they've got a REAL problem..."

[Ghost Archer]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

My own Ghost Archer is about 1300 points but I never really increased his damage class or defenses from where he was 24 years ago. He's become far more adept at many things but I have always stuck to my own rice bowl. I might be a little stronger, but nowhere near the bricks in my teams. I have never increased my DEX or SPD, so while I am damn fast, speedsters will still outclass me by miles. I am not a mentalist, or a mage, and while I do shapeshift once in a while it is solely for fun, like appearing as a drooling Alien to a couple of mooks driving the getaway van. I am very good as a martial artist, but I have always had those skills they have just become more defined by UMA and NH. My biggest advantage over anyone else is the desolidification. People can't stand it when I can scout ahead and find everything before they even enter a building so unless someone asks me to do it, I never suggest it. I don't overpower other players, OR villains, I am just very good at a lot of things.

 

All that being said one way to handle this problem will require Captain K's self-control. I learned early on to let other people have their spotlight. I never horn in on someone else's battle. I'll go save a normal instead. If someone wants to do what I know I can do better, I let them. How can they learn if they never get a chance? I find I enjoy restraining myself as part of my enjoyment is seeing my friends succeed and have fun doing it.

 

One thing I have to fight against is letting others step back and figure "Ghost Archer's here, let him take care of it." Na, ain't gonna happen. "Drag your rear over there and beat up Grond yourself, I gotta go pull those people out from under the rubble of that building." Then there's the problem players being intimidated by Ghost Archer. Hey, that's a positive PRE if you are on my side, dang it! You aren't supposed to be afraid of me.

 

If your friend's as attached to his character as I am to mine, see if you can get him to lay back a little and play the mentor. Think the JLA figures Batman's here, why should we bother? No, they work with him. Sorry but not all superheroes are created equal.

[David Johnston]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Since Batman is the team wuss letting him handle Mongul doesn't seem like the best approach. One of the problems with power mismatches in RPGs as opposed to comics is that there's no problem with showing a weaker character like Batman blatant favouritism because the other characters don't have players who are going to say things like "But Superman (pre-crisis) has an INT of 50, so how come only Batman gets to roll to notice things?" and insist on taking out Batman's opponent if they've run out of opponents of their own.

[ghost-angel]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

"Hey, dude, you got any other character ideas you want to try out? Because now's a good time to start one up to be comparable to the rest of the group. No really, I insist."

[Boulder]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Um, Infinite Crisus Time. When Superman and other heros were to powerful DC decided to do a little spring cleaning and destroyed there entire universe and started from scratch, which strangely worked! Even thou the money grubers keep bringing it back to pumb money into the DC coffers. As for Mr. Hero, yes, start giving people extra xp so that there hero catch up, you can say that since the senario was so much more difficult your throwing the weeker chacters some extra xp, if he pouts, well tuff

[Vondy]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Its time for him to retire the character. I agree with ghost archer's sentiments in general, but that only works when the player and gamemaster are cognizant of the dynamics in play, and when a negative precedent hasn't already been established. He could completely change his play style today and the players would still have the associations with what came before. Maybe he can play the character in a separate game with somewhat higher point totals. Ideally, the GM should tell him its creating problems and that a new character is in order. If the GM won't, then the other players will need to say something themselves, as a group. Be polite, but be firm. Tell him its no fun to be a group of sidekicks and you want him to try something new.

[gojira]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Reboot the campaign. Move it to a different city, time line, reality, etc. This is a little more work for you, but it gives you a chance to change other things that maybe have been bugging you, and you can fix those too. Increase or decrease the magic level, change the world political sturture a bit. If on evil organization has been prominent in the campaign (Viper), replace with a different one (Demon).

 

You can reuse most of the current campaign, just file the serial numbers off and change the names.

 

You could also switch power levels (go for Dark Champions or Teen Champions), or switch genres (go from Golden Age to Iron Age).

[Chimpira]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

So basically this guy has been playing the same character straight through while others have bailed on the Campaign during the last 14 years? I think I can see why this guy might be a little reticent to retire the character. He might just be thinking that everyone else might bail eventually and he will still need to play his character.

 

How about this. Talk to him. Ask him if he would not mind making another character to try out. He does not need to retire his character but let him go on vacation. He has been duking it out for 14 years, give him a little rest. Bring in a replacement and let's see how everything works out.

 

Another solution would be for the GM to start another campaign. He could still set it in his campaign world but it would be a different group.

 

I know I should be talking about how inconsiderate the player is with his mega hero but honestly, this guy has been there putting his time in for the last 14 years and if he built this character up from 250 (that was the old standard for you newbies) I would feel bad for him to retire the character that he so obviously dearly loves to play.

 

Truth be told it sounds like a GM problem. This guy was obviously powerful before anyone made a character and the GM should have given you more points to start out with to reflect that. Also, as a player you should have immediately pointed this out to the GM. I do not think that you should be given as many points as the guy that has stuck it out but you should easily be in the 500-600 range.

[massey]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Murder his character. In his sleep.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

The long winded response by our esteemed GA brings to mind a simple and elegant point made by an old gamer buddy of mine back in 1990.

 

"Powerful people can afford to be humble."

 

If you didn't get that, if you can make mistakes, or play untactically, and still have a reasonable, if not assured, chance of success then you are likely going to try out a different type of gaming.

 

The chumps, I mean normal powered characters, are trying to do all they can to meet challenges. Often mistakes are going to end up in a game FUBAR. And the Characters and Players know this! They do not have room to act in the way Ghost Archer would. They have to do everything they can do, all the time. Please note that I do not advocate this, I want my PCs to be willing to commit In Game mistakes so that the Game actively moves towards Genre simulation, it is just that most of the time PCs cannot afford to make those mistakes, or take other routes, or not use certain powers.

 

The humorously monikered Captain Thousand might or might not ascribe to the GA way. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that the same character is played over and over and over again. In the same world! Now, attachment is one thing, but I think this goes beyond that. From my personal experience some GM bullying is going on. Meaning that the Player is saying, perhaps subtlely that his 'character' is going to play, or the player is not. Which means that the GM is forced to deal with the uberPC whether he wants to or not. This just smells wrong to me. YMMV.

 

The other issue is the GM, and I suspect the UberPC's Player, insistence that the other players be saddled with inferior character's because he (the UberPC's Player) has 'dutifully and through great trials' worked his way through the power rankings.

 

Utter smelly regurgitated tripe!

 

The game is about enjoyment of all participants. If the other PCs are upset by playing sidekicks to CT then one of two things has to happen. CT gets removed from the campaign, i.e. called to higher planes by the PTBs, or the other players recieve characters of a similar power level. Not 500-600, but 1000 point PCs. Which of course could (would) likely send the GM into spasms which would result, rapidly IMHO, in a rebooting of the world in which no character is above say 500 CP. And of course end the career of CT.

 

Hawksmoor

 

 

 

 

My own Ghost Archer is about 1300 points but I never really increased his damage class or defenses from where he was 24 years ago. He's become far more adept at many things but I have always stuck to my own rice bowl. I might be a little stronger, but nowhere near the bricks in my teams. I have never increased my DEX or SPD, so while I am damn fast, speedsters will still outclass me by miles. I am not a mentalist, or a mage, and while I do shapeshift once in a while it is solely for fun, like appearing as a drooling Alien to a couple of mooks driving the getaway van. I am very good as a martial artist, but I have always had those skills they have just become more defined by UMA and NH. My biggest advantage over anyone else is the desolidification. People can't stand it when I can scout ahead and find everything before they even enter a building so unless someone asks me to do it, I never suggest it. I don't overpower other players, OR villains, I am just very good at a lot of things.

 

All that being said one way to handle this problem will require Captain K's self-control. I learned early on to let other people have their spotlight. I never horn in on someone else's battle. I'll go save a normal instead. If someone wants to do what I know I can do better, I let them. How can they learn if they never get a chance? I find I enjoy restraining myself as part of my enjoyment is seeing my friends succeed and have fun doing it.

 

One thing I have to fight against is letting others step back and figure "Ghost Archer's here, let him take care of it." Na, ain't gonna happen. "Drag your rear over there and beat up Grond yourself, I gotta go pull those people out from under the rubble of that building." Then there's the problem players being intimidated by Ghost Archer. Hey, that's a positive PRE if you are on my side, dang it! You aren't supposed to be afraid of me.

 

If your friend's as attached to his character as I am to mine, see if you can get him to lay back a little and play the mentor. Think the JLA figures Batman's here, why should we bother? No, they work with him. Sorry but not all superheroes are created equal.

[Ghost Archer]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

So basically this guy has been playing the same character straight through while others have bailed on the Campaign during the last 14 years? I think I can see why this guy might be a little reticent to retire the character. He might just be thinking that everyone else might bail eventually and he will still need to play his character.

 

How about this. Talk to him. Ask him if he would not mind making another character to try out. He does not need to retire his character but let him go on vacation. He has been duking it out for 14 years, give him a little rest. Bring in a replacement and let's see how everything works out.

 

Another solution would be for the GM to start another campaign. He could still set it in his campaign world but it would be a different group.

 

I know I should be talking about how inconsiderate the player is with his mega hero but honestly, this guy has been there putting his time in for the last 14 years and if he built this character up from 250 (that was the old standard for you newbies) I would feel bad for him to retire the character that he so obviously dearly loves to play.

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly! I have put a great deal of time and thought into Ghost Archer and have been very lucky for the past six years or so to have a GM that handles Ghost Archer's point level very nicely. One of the first thing we did was add a concurrent team in another city that allows us to play back and forth between them. The second team was sponsored by Ghost Archer but he rarely has anything to do with the daily workings of the group. It gave me opportunities to play other characters and I don't resent it in any way because I know Ghost Archer is still there when I want to play him.

 

I don't understand one thing I see in on these boards . . . why do people, GM's and players, seem to have such a difficulty with a wide variant in point levels? I can run a 350 character in a game with a 700 point character and never seem to have a problem. Isn't that what campaign limits are for? Ghost Archer has about 475 points in Skills, Perks and Talents. Did Captain K put those points into Powers? If the character has an overwhelming level of Powers, like a 30d6 Energy Blast, that becomes a problem. If, however, he is within the campaign limits and only has, say, 15d6, then what's the trouble?

[Chimpira]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

I agree wholeheartedly! I have put a great deal of time and thought into Ghost Archer and have been very lucky for the past six years or so to have a GM that handles Ghost Archer's point level very nicely. One of the first thing we did was add a concurrent team in another city that allows us to play back and forth between them. The second team was sponsored by Ghost Archer but he rarely has anything to do with the daily workings of the group. It gave me opportunities to play other characters and I don't resent it in any way because I know Ghost Archer is still there when I want to play him.

 

I don't understand one thing I see in on these boards . . . why do people, GM's and players, seem to have such a difficulty with a wide variant in point levels? I can run a 350 character in a game with a 700 point character and never seem to have a problem. Isn't that what campaign limits are for? Ghost Archer has about 475 points in Skills, Perks and Talents. Did Captain K put those points into Powers? If the character has an overwhelming level of Powers, like a 30d6 Energy Blast, that becomes a problem. If, however, he is within the campaign limits and only has, say, 15d6, then what's the trouble?

 

A lot of times it is not about how much damage that can be done but what you can do. I have noticed that a lot of players like the limelight and if they can do a skill that someone else has they immediately speak up with "I can do that too." This can cause players to feel that they really have no impact on the game whatsoever.

 

Good players and GM's tend to avoid this. If the other character has a skill they come in for the assist to help the other characters roll but do not take over.

 

Recently I ran into the problem where my character seemed to be overpowered for a game. I got to make a character for a Champions game after GMing for several years. I have never played a Superman type and wanted to give it a try. Although the build has more to do with Captain Marvel than Superman I made my character for 350 with an OIF. Immediately the other characters felt that I overshadowed them, although I had not fought anyone and stuck to making certain that civilians were safe while the other characters did most the fighting. The GM even set an elaborate trap for my character that has not done anything beyond fly around.

 

Fed up. I made a character of comparable powers as everyone else. Although the game was set at 350, I made him for 250 without a single power Limitation. It was character patterned after Luke Cage called Buck Wylde. (Pretty much stolen from Milestone). The GM was then worried that we were going to get our butts served to us at every super fight. And I really wanted to play someone iconic. I brought back my character and then asked the players if I could take a peek at their characters. My eyes widened and I did a bunch of rebuilds, with the GM's approval, on the spot. I am not a fan of the notion of efficient builds or min/maxing but the points were just terriblly misused with very little guidance from our GM. I tweaked their characters so that everyone had their own uniqueness about themselves and fit into what they originally wanted.

 

A lot of times it is the GM that should try and even out the playing field so that every character can feel unique and viable to the game. I have played in games which had been going on for 16 years before I entered the group and was still made to feel as if I had something to contribute. I did not make my character at the same power level as the guy that had been playing for 16 years straight but I was not a beginning build either. The GM handled the game well and although I knew that the oldest player was way out of my league I never felt as if I was just sitting around waiting for him to save the day. I got plenty of spotlight time.

 

So for the game that we have been talking about with Captain K. I think the GM does not bear that in mind. If Captain K built his character up from 250 without the benefit of doing some rebuilds, a person that brings in a character at 500-600 points will be a totally different sort of build. I think that not only does the player have an attachment to his character but the GM has an attachment to that particular game world. I think that stepping away from that, for a little while, might do both of them some good.

[Ghost Archer]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

A lot of times it is not about how much damage that can be done but what you can do. I have noticed that a lot of players like the limelight and if they can do a skill that someone else has they immediately speak up with "I can do that too." This can cause players to feel that they really have no impact on the game whatsoever.

 

A lot of times it is the GM that should try and even out the playing field so that every character can feel unique and viable to the game. I have played in games which had been going on for 16 years before I entered the group and was still made to feel as if I had something to contribute. I did not make my character at the same power level as the guy that had been playing for 16 years straight but I was not a beginning build either. The GM handled the game well and although I knew that the oldest player was way out of my league I never felt as if I was just sitting around waiting for him to save the day. I got plenty of spotlight time.

 

I disagree. In most cases it IS the size of your attack that players have always seemed to be more concerned with than a character stepping on their toes when it comes to computer hacking. No one wants to play with a character that can knock Grond out in one shot and if that happens on a regular basis, they will quickly become very disgruntled. But when Fred speaks German as will as someone else does, or Jessica can pilot the ship better than someone else, they usually don't get nearly as upset. Anyone that has GMed as long as many of us have understands one thing about this and any other game. The first thing players do is start measuring the size of their d**k against others. That never means their SKILLS d**k.

 

As for characters having the same or similar powers and skills . . . I have a huge advantage in this case. I build almost all of characters that are played in my game OR that of my co-GM. This is mainly because I have the books, HD, a website and a bunch of experience with the system. This is also because most of the people that join the game are newies. All the player does is tell me what they want, and this can take hours, but I try to steer them away from powers, especially, and skills that overlap others.

 

As for spotlight time, as I have said before in other threads, that all depends on the player. I will play to them if they contribute. I have been doing this too long to have any desire to force a player into actually joining in and acting as if they have free will. That's why they are here, if THEY don't join in, I am not doing to drag them into the game. I feel a player has the power to assert their rights to play but if they sit back and wait they may have a long wait ahead. My best friend, War Eagle, is probably the worst RPer in history but he will always try his best and I appreciate that and play to him. Others, like the Cat, do nothing but react. You have to have proactive players, not reactive ones.

[David Johnston]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

I think Ghost Archer is right, that in the end powers and stat levels are the real matter of concern in these cases. Guys who have every skill under the sun and contacts up the wazoo aren't going to annoy other players the way the guy who is three times as effective in actual combat as they are will. Most skills, after all, just let you know stuff and the game effect of that is that the entire group listens to the GM give them exposition. As for the remainder, interaction skills, no matter how high they are, suck by comparison with mind control, stealth skills suck by comparison with invisibility, medical skills suck by comparison

with healing and so on.

 

However even if there are campaign limits, that doesn't mean you have to turn to skills. You can just get more powers and that can be almost as annoying. Sure Superior's laser eyes may not be 7any more powerful than Beholder's laser eyes...but they aren't any less powerful either. Everyone has

the same power level so the only reason to regard one's character as something special is if you can do something _different_ from other characters.

 

Now one good response to that problem is to pick something to do which is so bizarre that it won't fit into Superior's Flying/Zapping/Mind Controlling/Supergenius/Speedster/Brick standard niche encroachment. Um...I'm made out of water and I can control any water I touch! I astral project and can pull other people in there with me! I can turn people into gerbils! I can teleport objects at range, so have an anvil before I boomf you away!

 

But that doesn't work for everyone.

[Chimpira]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

I disagree. In most cases it IS the size of your attack that players have always seemed to be more concerned with than a character stepping on their toes when it comes to computer hacking. No one wants to play with a character that can knock Grond out in one shot and if that happens on a regular basis, they will quickly become very disgruntled. But when Fred speaks German as will as someone else does, or Jessica can pilot the ship better than someone else, they usually don't get nearly as upset. Anyone that has GMed as long as many of us have understands one thing about this and any other game. The first thing players do is start measuring the size of their d**k against others. That never means their SKILLS d**k.

 

As for characters having the same or similar powers and skills . . . I have a huge advantage in this case. I build almost all of characters that are played in my game OR that of my co-GM. This is mainly because I have the books, HD, a website and a bunch of experience with the system. This is also because most of the people that join the game are newies. All the player does is tell me what they want, and this can take hours, but I try to steer them away from powers, especially, and skills that overlap others.

 

As for spotlight time, as I have said before in other threads, that all depends on the player. I will play to them if they contribute. I have been doing this too long to have any desire to force a player into actually joining in and acting as if they have free will. That's why they are here, if THEY don't join in, I am not doing to drag them into the game. I feel a player has the power to assert their rights to play but if they sit back and wait they may have a long wait ahead. My best friend, War Eagle, is probably the worst RPer in history but he will always try his best and I appreciate that and play to him. Others, like the Cat, do nothing but react. You have to have proactive players, not reactive ones.

 

I do not disagree with the assessment that having a lot of power does make the other players wince more often than not but I have been fortunate to play in enough games where power does not simply carry the day. It does get old having the character that can do everything that you can do, especially if you are supposed to be the specialist. This goes for powers as well as skills. I just thought that using skills as an example would be easier.

 

For the record I have been GMing for about 19 years and I do understand that having more power does play into the equation but when I think of balance I would be remiss in my duties as a GM to just think along the lines of damage being put out. I put a very important emphasis on skills in my game and I have seen this as a problem as well. Having two people speak German or Hack a computer is not a problem but having someone that can do all the other players skills better than they do and repeatedly saying so can irk the best player.

 

As for people being proactive vs. reactive. I have played with quite a few people that just let things happen and then react to them. Some people play that way and some do not know any better because they are worried about messing up. Usually I like to get a team leader and allow him/her to try to get the players to speak up more, especially if they are not sure of themselves. Recently, I had a new player that told me that she did not originally speak up because her other GM would always tell her that her ideas were stupid. Some people want to speak up but are just worried about it.

 

I am against dragging players into the spotlight but I like to present them the opportunity to take advantage of it when it comes their way. As I told one player " It is not for me to give you reasons to be a hero. If you want to join in, you can, but I am not going to force your character to participate."

 

What I was talking about was not simply participating but having a GM that was able to challenge the players, all on different levels, and allow them the opportunity to seize the spotlight. We had a powerful member in our party but it never felt like the game was dominated by him. We all had our own things going on. One of the best compliments that I ever recieved during Gaming happened in that game. A player turned to me and said, "I have gotten lucky on occassion but your play tonight has been exemplary." I was the weakest member of the party.

[Chimpira]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Most skills' date=' after all, just let you know stuff [/quote']

 

I just find that amusing to no end.

[Lockdown]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

TY everyone... I talked to my buddy and even showed him the thread here... ya see it was his favorite charicter ( and i can understand retiring your favorite is painfull) but now he has a plan for retirement and him and the GM are working it out...

sometimes it helps not to have the gm make the call... but you as the player to see it for yourself. When you can make a call like that, it eases the burden upon the gm AND everyone else...

 

oh BTW hes running for president as his "retirement" campaign, all in secret ID too... heh.. maybe our team now will get police powers recognized by the govt.

 

watch out Hilary Clinton... Hennery s. prestion is making a run for the presidency ( oh btw he is a surfer!!!)

[ghost-angel]

Re: help my friend is overpowered!!!!!

 

Sounds like he's a decent player. And his character will continue to have major influence in the Game World - even if it is off screen.

 

And perhaps the Secret ID can cameo every now and then for him.