Irksome players

[Fenixcrest]

As a GM, what sort of players do you find irksome? Not intolerably awful- there's plenty of threads for that. Just... kind of annoying.

There's one guy in my current group who plays a low-strength, high agility, crowd-control sort of character. Physically, he's kind of useless except for feats of agility. So, whenever the party fights something huge and nigh-invincible (iron golems, and the like), he basically gets all pissy and threatens to go take a nap, or something.

The thing that's annoying is that I leave behind subtle clues for him in these situations. For example, in the case of the iron golem, I made note that the thing was hollow. It took like 20 Turns of the party, determined to kill this thing even though they could have just left through the door (which was smaller than the golem), and this guy whining the whole time, before he figured out that he could try targeting his 3" radius plant-based Entangle inside the golem's hollow body. Due to the time frame involved, the party member who had the treasure being guarded by the golem has reached her healing cap for at least the next month, and I had to endure more then forty vinyard's worth of whine from the guy in question.

x_x

Like, he figures it out, but first he complains forever about being useless, when some creative application can do awesome things.

 

How about you guys?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Irksome players

 

I like to "read back" to the players in such cases. "Nordrick heroically whines about his inability to harm the golem, and the unfairness of life in general."

 

I did have a GM run a long-term campaign once where the master villain (in a fantasy game sense) was empowered by despair. Whenever the players whined, complained about "impossible tasks", etc., he'd add a bit more power to the villain, as he fed off the heroes' failing morale and will to succeed. Put a villain like that in place, and make sure the heroes find out about this little quirk some time into the game.

 

For added cruelty, you could create a villain who gets some of your XP every time you whine, as he feeds off your despair. If one xp per session drained off, is it for not RP'ing your heroic character heroically, for the bad guy's mechanics or a combination or both? Of course, that's pretty extreme, and the death spiral sets in when the player starts whining about his reduced xp...

[Manic Typist]

Re: Irksome players

 

For example' date=' in the case of the iron golem, I made note that the thing was hollow. It took like 20 Turns of the party, determined to kill this thing even though they could have just left through the door (which was smaller than the golem), and this guy whining the whole time, before he figured out that he could try targeting his 3" radius plant-based Entangle inside the golem's hollow body. [/quote']

 

I'm sorry, but what would this do? I'm on cold meds.

 

I'll post an annoyance I know later.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Irksome players

 

I'm sorry, but what would this do? I'm on cold meds.

 

I'll post an annoyance I know later.

 

In that situation, the 3" radius sudden, explosive plant growth basically destroyed the golem, which was hollow, from the inside.

I allowed this because it was a cool idea, and the golem was hollow. A solid golem of the same type, on the other hand, would have just been caught in the entangle.

Also, the party was hell-bent on defeating this thing, even though they had almost no chance of piercing its defences.

[Outsider]

Re: Irksome players

 

Players who insist on extensive 'solo' time when we're in a group game. A little is OK, but I've known guys who arrange to unnecessarily seperate themselves from the rest of the players and then get agitated when I just tell them "Yes, it takes all afternoon, but you find the perfect pair of shoes." (or whatever) rather than role-playing their interaction with every shoe merchant (or whatever) in the mall.

 

Players who 'hold their characters hostage' are another irksome bunch. They either evince an over-attachment to their character ahead of time, or have previously established a reputation for throwing a royal tizzy if their character ever gets smooshed, then proceed to repeatedly take insanely stupid risks/do insanely stupid things.

 

Players who refuse to make characters according to the GM's prospectus for the game. A classic example from my past (I was neither GM nor the player who did it) : The GM declares that we are going to be playing squad of hard-bitten mercenaries in modern Africa, so one of the players makes a character with a total commitment code vs killing. The same guy in another game made a ninja, when the GM specifically said "NO NINJAS". I'm pretty sure he was trying to sabotage the games that he didnt like without just coming out and saying he didnt like them.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Irksome players

 

"I charge into combat"

 

sum total of their planning, M.O., and strategy.

[Outsider]

Re: Irksome players

 

That would be a variety of 'holding their characer hostage'.

 

 

GM : "You look into the valley and see the encampment of a host of orcs. At least 1000 of them. They havent spotted you."

 

Player : "I charge into combat."

 

GM : "!"

 

GM : "Make your Tactics skill roll at, oh, +10 (+1 per power of 2 that the orcs outnumber you)"

 

Player : [rolls dice] I make it by 14!

 

GM : "OK, your vast experience on the battlefield tells you that one man, even you, attacking that many orcs would be comitting suicide."

 

Player : "Uh...I charge into Combat!"

 

GM : ":("

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Irksome players

 

I have an interesting one ... he'll play a rock stupid character, say something in-character that's rock stupid or make a rock-stupid suggestion, then when people, in-character, say it's a bad idea and debate it, he'll get very defensive and huffy.

 

Example: The PCs were attempting to scope out a building (a large inn) for a break-in, which means being, you know, subtle and sneaky was the order of the day. In broad freakin' daylight, his character busts out a rope and grapple and starts scaling the walls and peeking in the windows ... no invisibility, no nothing.

 

Of course, the other characters (CHARACTERS) take him to task over it, including one who had been nicknamed 'Sir Lee Bastard' because of his grouchy attitude. The player gets offended, stands up, and huffs off outside for half an hour, grumphing and venting at another player who had stepped outside because she'd gotten a headache.

 

Then, he comes back in, does the 'I have an idea ... no, wait' thing, and goes into a self-pitying little 'No, you'll just think it's a stupid idea', having taken the fact that he was told he screwed up as a personal attack.

 

He does the same thing when running, if his NPCs start to act irrationally or obnoxiously and we respond appropriately.

 

Sheesh.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Irksome players

 

Also' date=' the party was hell-bent on defeating this thing, even though they had almost no chance of piercing its defences.[/quote']

 

 

Actually, players who assume that every obstacle can be overcome by bringing brute force to bear are among the most annoying of the bunch. "The GM would never put anything in that we couldn't beat."

 

A close second would be the players whose solution always involves a game mechanic (some spell, super-power, whatever), and never considers a common sense solution involving use of brainpower and actions anyone could carry out.

[Frenchman]

Re: Irksome players

 

Players who insist on extensive 'solo' time when we're in a group game. A little is OK, but I've known guys who arrange to unnecessarily seperate themselves from the rest of the players and then get agitated when I just tell them "Yes, it takes all afternoon, but you find the perfect pair of shoes." (or whatever) rather than role-playing their interaction with every shoe merchant (or whatever) in the mall.

 

Players who 'hold their characters hostage' are another irksome bunch. They either evince an over-attachment to their character ahead of time, or have previously established a reputation for throwing a royal tizzy if their character ever gets smooshed, then proceed to repeatedly take insanely stupid risks/do insanely stupid things.

 

Players who refuse to make characters according to the GM's prospectus for the game. A classic example from my past (I was neither GM nor the player who did it) : The GM declares that we are going to be playing squad of hard-bitten mercenaries in modern Africa, so one of the players makes a character with a total commitment code vs killing. The same guy in another game made a ninja, when the GM specifically said "NO NINJAS". I'm pretty sure he was trying to sabotage the games that he didnt like without just coming out and saying he didnt like them.

Wow, you managed to hit 1/2 of my most hated, hated things that players do. Relating to players who like/demand (or just run away from the party) solo time, I hate gms who pander to them. In my group one of the GMs does this, especially with a certain player (who actually is guilty of all of these things), sometimes for the entire gaming session. One group that I introduced this GM to actually kicked him out of the group for doing this for six hours!

Kicked. Out. The. GM.

Other things I vituperatively despise:

5- Players who show up late or not at all, leave early, or take frequent and/or long breaks (for whatever reason). Especially if they do so without warning or at retarded times - like last week when the stoners INSISTED on not taking their smoke break while the rest of use went for coffee, or while I had to go drop off a paper at school (an event I told them was going to occur at 11-12:00 at 5 minute intervals since we started gaming), but waited until I got back from my 30-minute sojourn to go outside and suppress brain cells.

6- Players who argue about rules/descions with the GM (or me, if I'm not GMing), in spite of the fact that they don't even own the book, let alone read it - Yes, I am our groups official Rules Lawyer - I'm having my gf make me a card. Even though I revel in toeing the line with the system rules, and those which I willingly and happily add to our home rules list, I don't argue with the GM

as long as he doesn't pull that crap he did last time

"It's NND, so you take all the damage"

"But I have the defense from my spell"

"I never said you could buy LS with your spells!"

"You built the damned spell, you freakin stoner!"

"Oh, I didn't know that...so heres a 4d6 KA instead. 18 Body and 72 stun. AP. Good thing your defenses are hardened, huh?"

"No, actually they aren't"

"Oops, I thought they were. Oh well. Good thing you're the tank, then, and you can take it."

"I am at -24 stun and 2 body away from dying. From one hit. Kinda like the last battle where I got my arm chopped off, huh?"

"Not my fault you're character can't take a hit"

"Not my fault you won't let me have more than 6 points of resistant defense"

"Well, I just want to be able to hurt you once in a while, so I have to pull stuff like this."

"I Hate you."

(continuing where I left off...)

I also stop any rules debate after 5 minutes or someone looks it up in the book. Period. Some people just won't let it go and will argue for hours - unless its in their characters favor to stop arguing. People who play with me are mystified when I point out rules which are detrimental to my character in the situation at hand.

 

arg...must write paper...

 

Anyways, speaking of not letting it go...

 

Do you think I'm a hateful person? I don't feel that I am, unless I'm thinking about David.

 

 

[Curufea]

Re: Irksome players

 

I find players that lack motivation irksome. I like my players to have ideas about what their characters want in life, where they are going, what goals they want to achieve etc to be ideal players.

The first hint I get that a player is going to be irksome is if they spend more time on crunching numbers than talking to me about backstory.

Worse yet is if they don't write any backstory at all.

[input.jack]

Re: Irksome players

 

Conversely, (and Im not saying unmotivated Players arent a problem, they are) I realluy dislike it when the GM gives the Players NO idea of where they are supposed to go or what they are supposed to do, unless "spining your wheels" is the point of the game.

 

Ive been in games where my character went out on patrol (superhero game), checked with contacts, and got NOTHING from the GM about what was going on, and then got chewed out by NPC's for "letting that villain get away with it" when I had NO IDEA what was happening.

 

No clues.

 

No fortuitous happenstance of being in the right place at the right time.

 

Apparently since I didnt specifically =state= that I was going by the Airport, I missed the "plot" and then got chewed out for it.

 

I dont game with him anymore.

[Susano]

Re: Irksome players

 

"I charge into combat"

 

sum total of their planning, M.O., and strategy.

 

"That was your plan? 'Get 'em?'"

[Curufea]

Re: Irksome players

 

Some plans only work if everyone is using the same script...

 

(and you can quote me on that)

[Mr. R]

Re: Irksome players

 

Her is mine from the point of view of a player.

 

The "I MUST KNOW ALL THAT IS GOING ON WITH EVERBODY ELSE" player. This was in Palladium Fantasy ans said person had a Mind Mage (psionic type) with enough power points to fuel alot of power. He started doing the following:

 

GM: can i talk to you in the other room (code for this is for your PC only)

 

Me: sure

 

IMKA: I listen in telepathically (which means he can sit in on the conversation)

 

 

Gm let him get away with it first few times but the players got him to break it. We took turn asking the GM for a talk in the back room, he would follow and we would say Hello and go back to the table. When he complained of how would we know he was listening in, we responded how would he know when to listen in, or did he have to telepathy on everyone 24/7 ( totally impossible ).

 

Later he got worse and in my opinion caused the break up of the group cause we couldn't deal with his attitudes. He tried to GM a game but it fell through after one session when we found out that good= stupid and the CE orc with IQ of 8 was a tactical and strategic genius simply cause he was evil.

 

Jerome

 

Sorry for venting.

[Robyn]

Re: Irksome players

 

The first hint I get that a player is going to be irksome is if they spend more time on crunching numbers than talking to me about backstory.

 

Spending more time on number crunching than backstory doesn't necessarily mean we're going to be irksome, it may just mean we suck at math

 

"Two . . . five . . . carry the one . . . " :beads of sweat breaking out on forehead:

[MordeanGrey]

Re: Irksome players

 

Curufea hit the nail on the head!

 

I find players that lack motivation irksome. I like my players to have ideas about what their characters want in life, where they are going, what goals they want to achieve etc to be ideal players.

The first hint I get that a player is going to be irksome is if they spend more time on crunching numbers than talking to me about backstory.

Worse yet is if they don't write any backstory at all.

 

When I run a game I want the characters to participate in the story. The best plot can be made better by interesting characters.

 

I don't care if you want to play an idiot — the typical drooling, sloped-forehead killer. Just give him some personality so he's more than just a big guy who spent too many points on combat skills.

 

Make your "normal" appearing character something different. Give him a dark secret, a higher goal, etc. It can be anything.

 

Players who give some thought to their character's history and motivations get more enjoyment out of any game.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Irksome players

 

Her is mine from the point of view of a player.

 

The "I MUST KNOW ALL THAT IS GOING ON WITH EVERBODY ELSE" player. This was in Palladium Fantasy ans said person had a Mind Mage (psionic type) with enough power points to fuel alot of power.

 

Yeah that could be really annoying. And on the flipside...

 

I often run games with no secrets, no player vs plaver conflict. Anything that is said is said in front of the group as a whole - even "solo scenes" (saves having to recap to the other players). Then you get the player who wants all that secretive behind the scenes stuff, and it just really is annoying.

The only time I've even seen "player and GM together alone" stuff is when the player ended up doing something nasty to the group, so I don't allow it.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Irksome players

 

"I charge into combat"

 

sum total of their planning, M.O., and strategy.

 

 

I can be that player. Not all the time, but often I game because I want to relax rather than work up strategy or figure out puzzles. That is why I bought said skills for the character, so that I, as a player, don't have to do them.

 

There are time when I really want the character to be challenged, but don't want the player challenged at all. Not all the time, but some of it.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Irksome players

 

Curufea hit the nail on the head!

 

When I run a game I want the characters to participate in the story. The best plot can be made better by interesting characters.

 

Thirded. I agree with this compeltely.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Irksome players

 

 

"I charge into combat"

 

sum total of their planning, M.O., and strategy.

 

I don't mind this if it's the CHARACTER who does it. For example, my Pulp HERO character has the Psych Lim 'Impatient and Impulsive' or something to that effect, so yes, he's going to shoot first, ask questions never.

 

Now, it's slightly different when a certain player constantly plays the same character, with that MO, in every game, regardless of game world, power level, genre, background, race (for fantasy games), powers, abilities, or whatever.

[Basil]

Re: Irksome players

 

Some of the above have (IMO) gone well beyond irksome, into pure PITA. So, some lesser problems.

 

The Fiddler: aka "Mr. Twitch." This is the guy that cannot stop moving.Tapping the table, arranging his dice, straightening his character sheets, etc., etc., etc. This guy just has to be doing something. If there's nothing to do at the table, he gets up (without warning, much less clearing it with the GM) and walks around aimlessly.

 

Similar is Hummerbird: He doesn't twitch, he hums. Badly or well, appropriate songs, inappropriate, or random. It doesn't matter, he just has to be making noise.

 

Similar to the last two are The Singer, Drummer Boy, and [/b]The Rattler[/b] (you know, the guy who's always picking up his dice and rattling them in his hand, or rolling them and noting down the number---"No, that's not for the game, I'm just seeing which dice are lucky.")

 

Motormouth: This guy just has to be talking all the time. About the game or not, it's all one to him. The worst thing is, even though his mouth is going, so are his ears. He's at least average in how much attention he's paying to the game, and often one of the most "with it" players at the table. The fact he's interfering with everyone else's attention to the game doesn't occur to him. If called to task, he says "Hey, if it's a problem, don't listen to me." There are ways to cause that to occur, involving the fine products of Scotch Tape and Elmer's Glue corporations....

 

WhereRWe? and his companion WhatRWeDoing?: These guys never knows what's up---even though they are paying attention.

 

Nose-in-book: This guy's always studying the rule book. Not to debate a point with the GM (that's another type, and a real PITA, not merely irksome), but just so he can spout off minutia at the drop of a hat.

 

First time reader: Might be mistaken for the last, but this guy's different---he's had the rulebook for a while, but has never read it until the first time he sits down to game. If he'd put the book down and let people explain as the game goes along, it wouldn't be so bad. But nooooo, he's got to read it now so he can join in! Of course, since he's reading, he's not joining in. He will read diligently until the end to the session, then put the book aside and not read a word of it---until the next session.

 

I'm Hungry: This guy's always got to be noshing, and if there's nothing to nosh, he tries to arrange a "snack run" to go to the store and get some more food. Insists he's not hungry enough for pizza (or other meal-like stuff you could have delivered), so he just has to have a pause long enough to go down the street.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Irksome players

 

I hate the "me too" player. This is irksome from GM and player point of view.

 

When the players encounter a situation and the first few players try something creative then me too looks to see what has been successful and copies - whether or not that would be in keeping with the character.

 

While that is OK to an extent (it still rankles with me) that attitude is extracted to the roleplay sides of the game as well. One player decides that he will join a society and Me too joins as well. One player decides to go brawling and Me too tags along.

 

 

Doc

[Egyptoid]

Re: Irksome players

 

how about guy that gets visibly miffed when his character takes damage?

 

(more than 10 stun, and any body)

[input.jack]

Re: Irksome players

 

Along the lines of the "Me Too" Player is the "Im There Too" Player. This Player has to be in on every conversation, regardless of where its taking place.

 

Example: Im running a superhero game. One player has a super martial-artist character named "Starfist". Another is playing a character who is an *ahem* homage to Superman, named "Ultraman". (Great character though. Thick Tennessee accent and manages to be both heroic as you could ever want, and homespun funny. Like Will Rogers with superpowers). The third player has a character named "Panther".

 

Several of the characters are engaged in conversation in the teams main lobby. panther, of course, is in on the conversation, amking comments and giving suggestions.

 

UM's player says to me "Im gonna tap Starfist on the shoulder and lead her upstairs to the monitor room, so's we can have a private conversation".

 

I nod, and the two players distance themselves from the other players a bit, so that their conversation in private doesnt have to be carried out across the conversation in the main lobby. Im more or less in the middle of things, as is appropriate for the GM.

 

So, Starfist and Ultraman begin discussing some private information relating to the case, but as they are old-time members of the team, and some of the newer members (including Panther) havent really earned their stripes yet, they decided to keep some information back from them/

 

Lo and behold, in the middle of Ultraman and Starfist's conversation, Panther chimes in.

 

I call a halt to both conversations, and explain (again) to Panthers player that shes in the main lobby, not in the upstairs monitor room, and cant hear what UM and Starfist are saying through the closed door.

 

Ultraman's player raises a Spockian eyebrow, leeeeeeeans in closer to Panthers player, and says,

 

"Just who do you think you are? ME??"