Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

[AliceTheOwl]

I have a magical item that my bad guys are going to be using during the next game session, next Sunday. What it does is, when one person is wearing one set, it trasnfers the damage to the person wearing the other set.

 

So, for instance, the person gets stabbed for 4 BODY, 20 STUN after defenses - this goes to the person wearing the other set.

 

How would you write that up, in Hero terms?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Do both armor wearers suffer the damage taken, or only the one who experiences the "transferal" effect?

[Robyn]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

I have a magical item that my bad guys are going to be using during the next game session, next Sunday. What it does is, when one person is wearing one set, it trasnfers the damage to the person wearing the other set.

 

So, for instance, the person gets stabbed for 4 BODY, 20 STUN after defenses - this goes to the person wearing the other set.

 

After defenses? So, the other person wouldn't get defenses? Sounds like a NND - defense would be "not wearing the armor". (Who had this originally? Some villain who went out into battle taunting the bold hero who came to face him that the hero's beloved was wearing the other set?) Could be abused, but not very easily. (What happens if two people wearing a matched set of armor fight each other, though?) But the NND would be limited in damage, and could easily get too expensive.

 

Don't the Mentalists or Duplicates get some kind of "feedback" Limitation? Maybe that, or something similar to it, as a Naked Disadvantage that goes with the armor: "takes all damage that Twin would", but bought as a power instead, since the damage isn't happening to the original.

 

How would you write that up' date=' in Hero terms?[/quote']

 

Very poorly. After all, I don't have the 5th Edition book to refer to

[Trebuchet]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

How would you write that up' date=' in Hero terms?[/quote']Honestly? I wouldn't bother. I'd just call it a plot device and have it work as described. If you want to be really scrupulous, you might predetermine some game system methods to counter its effects; such as Drain vs magic.

 

Building weird effects like that can be fun, but I never let my inability to construct something within Hero from letting me tell the story I want to present as a GM.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

I agree with Trebuchet.

 

Of course, this does come to mind:

Armor: UBO, Side Effect (Any Damage that penetrates is applied to the Grantor, not the Grantee).

 

 

what happens when the person wearing the set that takes damage gets killed?

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Here's my thought:

 

26: Feedback Armor: Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Usable By Other (+1/4), Ranged (+1/2) (52 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Limited Power Feedback (Owner takes damage hitting the wearer; -1/2)

 

The owner of the power doesn't wear the suit.

 

Or:

 

Susceptibility-damage inflicted upon twin's armor.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

I agree with ghost-angel. A build based on Side Effect.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

I'm sorry I don't really have any better ideas on the build.

I like Ghost-Angel's build, but might argue for Independent.

 

 

Building weird effects like that can be fun' date=' but I never let my inability to construct something within Hero from letting me tell the story I want to present as a GM.[/quote']

 

Thank You. Bravo. I'm getting a brass plaque made of this one. Repped. Go Trebuchet !!!

tired of pointsmongers

[Bloodstone]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Hmm. Let me try something slightly more complex.

 

Seems like this could be built as a large Ego Attack With Does Body that can only target a single, specific person and only up to the amount of damage you just took. This would also require some ability to get a lock on the target, no matter the range or LOS (like Mind Scan).

 

Then you use a Triggered Healing for Body and Stun, which is self only and has decreased reuse duration.

 

Alternatly, you could stat out the armor as something like 10/10 Armor which is what you roll damage against, but then have additional +X Armor that prevents you from really taking the remaining damage, since it's shunted over to the warer of the other set...

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Hmm. I agree that it is a magic item that can be handwaved as a plot device. However when I looked at it originally I wanted to use Missile Deflection (reflects damage) indirect until I realised that this didn't deal with HtH.

 

If it did deal with HtH then it didn't provide any range for the reflection.

 

Now. If I HAD to write it up then I think that I'd be buying a Missile Deflection (reflects damage), indirect, at range. There would be a requirement of two foci (suits of armour).

 

There would be no need to think about the bypassing of damage as I believe each suit of armour would have the same DEF and so damage that passes through one suit would pass through the other and I'd buy enough levels with the reflect to ensure that I could handwave it as automatic rather than having to roll for it.

 

I think I would also have to limit the reflection to ensure that the reflected damage only affected the wearer of the second suit of armour.

 

I guess with this construction you would end up with a range for the effect and if the wearer went beyond that range the damage would no longer be reflected - as such the power would have to be bought with that range strictly in mind.

 

 

Doc

[Dust Raven]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Just to make sure I've got this straight...

 

There are TWO sets of magical armor, each presumably providing some level of defense. The trick is that any damage that get's past the defense of one suit of armor, is applied to the guy wearing the other suit (which is applied to his defenses, minus the armor he's wearing), and none of it is applied at all to the guy wearing the suit of armor that was actually hit (beyond taking into account the armor's defense).

 

Have I got that right?

 

If I have, then I have a question: What happens when only one suit of the armor is being worn?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Just to make sure I've got this straight...

 

There are TWO sets of magical armor, each presumably providing some level of defense. The trick is that any damage that get's past the defense of one suit of armor, is applied to the guy wearing the other suit (which is applied to his defenses, minus the armor he's wearing), and none of it is applied at all to the guy wearing the suit of armor that was actually hit (beyond taking into account the armor's defense).

 

Have I got that right?

 

If I have, then I have a question: What happens when only one suit of the armor is being worn?

 

Good question! Give the man a GM badge...

 

I agree with your reading of the context - two suits - damage transference.

 

My take on the magical item would be that if the second suit was empty then the transference of damage would not happen - thus another limitation on the the power as I wrote it otherwise we have a fantastic invulnerability write around!

 

I would of course ensure that the second suit was suitably cursed so that, once on it could not be taken off until certain obscure conditions had been met (or through the devices of a high powered clerical type!).

 

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Another take might be that damage transferred through the first set - when the second was empty would instead attack the armour thus ruining a fine suit of armour and rendering the first suit useless as more than simple armour.

 

I might even have the first suit fall apart if the second suit was destroyed. Lots of good story potential in both those situations...

 

 

Doc

[ghost-angel]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

I wuold rule if the second suit wasn't warn the magical property isn't active - making the first suit merely armor.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Well, I hate to say it, but the design that most closely models this is the "Invulnerable" version of Desolid.

 

Armor of Transference: Desolidification (affected by Damage Done To Wearer Of Paired Suit of Armor), Only To Protect Against Damage (+0), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (80 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2), OIF (Armor; -1/2), Only Functions While Someone Else Is Wearing Paired Suit Of Armor (-1/2); Real Cost: 32

 

In my campaigns it would also have Independent:

 

Armor of Transference: Desolidification (affected by Damage Done To Wearer Of Paired Suit of Armor), Only To Protect Against Damage (+0), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (80 Active Points); Independent (-2), Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2), OIF (Armor; -1/2), Only Functions While Someone Else Is Wearing Paired Suit Of Armor (-1/2); Real Cost: 18

 

If you want some damage mitigation in there is as well, just add another Power Construct to the focus.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Another thing I've been wondering, though it does not necessarily matters how the item is built in the Hero System, what if the purpose of these suits of armor? Things like this aren't designed, or used, without a defined, often highly specific purpose in mind. Granted, over time and through the passing of hands, a new and likely unintended owner might find some new and creative use for them, I would like to know why they exist in the first place.

 

It it some sort of cursed item that some wicked enchanter thought up, intending one suit of armor for his champion, the other for his champion's challenger, ending up with the challenger defeating himself? Perhaps a wise and crafty wizard figured out a way to force a pair of reluctant allies to work together. Could it have been a fluke, an accident, that caused a pair of armor suits intended for an enchantment to juxtapose their wearers in combat to instead transfer the impacts each took instead?

 

As to the uses, how do these villains use them? Is one hiding in the shadows with a satchel full of healing potions? Has the villain placed one suit of armor on one of the hero's DNPCs? Do the villains even know about this enchantment?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

first thing I thought of was "what if we put a troll in the other suit and kept him locked up in a dungeon..."

 

To many years of D&D talking there

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Armor of Transference: Desolidification (affected by Damage Done To Wearer Of Paired Suit of Armor)' date=' Only To Protect Against Damage (+0), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (80 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2), OIF (Armor; -1/2), Only Functions While Someone Else Is Wearing Paired Suit Of Armor (-1/2); Real Cost: 32[/quote']

 

It's a nice build but does it do the job?

 

I presume this is the second suit of armour - the cursed one? However, the way you have built it the wearer of the armour would be virtually invulnerable to all blows except those directed at the person wearing the paired suit.

 

It's a nice variation on what I thought was being asked for - a Lord could stridfe through the battlefield attracting attacks while his only weakness would be if someone ignored the obvious target and instead attacked one of his minor lackeys.

 

Is that what you were going for? It meets Dust Raven's requirements of why such a paired suit of armour would be built...

 

 

Doc

[Robyn]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Perhaps a wise and crafty wizard figured out a way to force a pair of reluctant allies to work together.

 

This best alludes to the question I've been wondering about - does the armor work both ways, or is one just transmitting and the other just receiving?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

It's a nice build but does it do the job?

 

I presume this is the second suit of armour - the cursed one? However, the way you have built it the wearer of the armour would be virtually invulnerable to all blows except those directed at the person wearing the paired suit.

 

It's a nice variation on what I thought was being asked for - a Lord could stridfe through the battlefield attracting attacks while his only weakness would be if someone ignored the obvious target and instead attacked one of his minor lackeys.

 

Is that what you were going for? It meets Dust Raven's requirements of why such a paired suit of armour would be built...

 

 

Doc

 

Not sure where your confusion lays -- obviously there would be two suits of armor, each with the same build, paired to one another.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Not sure where your confusion lays -- obviously there would be two suits of armor' date=' each with the same build, paired to one another.[/quote']

 

 

My confusion comes from my reading of Alice's request.

 

InAlice's there would be a master suit where the wearer's damage simply gets transferred to a second suit - no reciprocality. The wearer would be effectively immune because the damage done to him would go to the wearer of the cursed suit.

 

In your case the wearer is immune unless someone attacks the paired suit; in my understanding of Alice's request the wearer is immune because the damage is being directed to the paired suit.

 

Is my confusion clearer? As I said - its a variant on what I thought Alice was asking for and an intersting magic item in its own merit.

 

 

Doc

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Lotsa good questions. I'll cover the first page here:

 

Do both armor wearers suffer the damage taken' date=' or only the one who experiences the "transferal" effect?[/quote']

Only the one who's wearing the second set.

 

(Who had this originally? Some villain who went out into battle taunting the bold hero who came to face him that the hero's beloved was wearing the other set?)

Basically, yes. It was created a long time ago by the bad guy, and when the bad guy was defeated, it was put into the hands of the elves, trusting they wouldn't abuse it or give it away. They found some non-evil uses for it, but mostly kept it locked away. Then along comes the current bad guy (or one of his minions, anyway), who stole it from the elves. The party's job is to give it back to the elves.

 

Easier said than done.

 

Honestly? I wouldn't bother. I'd just call it a plot device and have it work as described. If you want to be really scrupulous, you might predetermine some game system methods to counter its effects; such as Drain vs magic.

Y'know, that might just be the way to handle it. I'm not going to be giving this thing to the party, and only one villain will be using it (who, hopefully, will be dead/captured at the end of the next session). Then it'll get locked back up by the elves.

 

what happens when the person wearing the set that takes damage gets killed?

I hadn't thought about it, but I'd imagine it would function as if it were empty - it reverts back to being normal armor.

 

Just to make sure I've got this straight...

 

There are TWO sets of magical armor, each presumably providing some level of defense. The trick is that any damage that get's past the defense of one suit of armor, is applied to the guy wearing the other suit (which is applied to his defenses, minus the armor he's wearing), and none of it is applied at all to the guy wearing the suit of armor that was actually hit (beyond taking into account the armor's defense).

 

Have I got that right?

 

If I have, then I have a question: What happens when only one suit of the armor is being worn?

Yes, more or less. If being used for evil, hostage-taking purposes, the person wearing the second set doesn't have any of their own armor on.

 

When just one set's being worn, it functions just like normal armor.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

Another thing I've been wondering, though it does not necessarily matters how the item is built in the Hero System, what if the purpose of these suits of armor? Things like this aren't designed, or used, without a defined, often highly specific purpose in mind. Granted, over time and through the passing of hands, a new and likely unintended owner might find some new and creative use for them, I would like to know why they exist in the first place.

 

It it some sort of cursed item that some wicked enchanter thought up, intending one suit of armor for his champion, the other for his champion's challenger, ending up with the challenger defeating himself? Perhaps a wise and crafty wizard figured out a way to force a pair of reluctant allies to work together. Could it have been a fluke, an accident, that caused a pair of armor suits intended for an enchantment to juxtapose their wearers in combat to instead transfer the impacts each took instead?

 

As to the uses, how do these villains use them? Is one hiding in the shadows with a satchel full of healing potions? Has the villain placed one suit of armor on one of the hero's DNPCs? Do the villains even know about this enchantment?

Good questions. I vaguely alluded to this in my reply to Robyn, but here's a more expanded version:

 

Once upon a time, there was an Evil, Evil Man, and he had the Fae make him two sets of armor, which would take any damage dealt to him and give it to the lady love of the man hunting him down. He donned this armor and hid the lady love in the dungeon. When he finally started getting hurt from the hero's blows, he laughed and said that the hero had killed his lady love with his own hands. The hero eventually triumphed and took the villain down, but, of course, was too late to save his lady love. He entrusted this armor to the elves, who promised to never use it for evil, and to never give it away.

 

They found that it was pretty handy in training people to work together and in toughening someone up, so they used it for these purposes, but otherwise kept it locked away, as promised.

 

Then one day, a party of three people - a woman with a sword, a knight in heavy armor, and a priest - came to stay in their settlement. The priest held audience with the Court, while the girl with the sword snuck into their treasure room and stole all their magical items. The Knight killed all of the guards between her and the treasure room. Then, they ran off.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

My confusion comes from my reading of Alice's request.

 

InAlice's there would be a master suit where the wearer's damage simply gets transferred to a second suit - no reciprocality. The wearer would be effectively immune because the damage done to him would go to the wearer of the cursed suit.

 

In your case the wearer is immune unless someone attacks the paired suit; in my understanding of Alice's request the wearer is immune because the damage is being directed to the paired suit.

 

Is my confusion clearer? As I said - its a variant on what I thought Alice was asking for and an intersting magic item in its own merit.

 

 

Doc

Ah, right . . . The second person would be getting all of the damage from being attacked, too. It's a one-way connection - the person wearing the second set of armor gets all the damage of both sets.

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: Difficult Build: Armor that tranfers damage

 

The first suit of armor grants the wearer extra STUN and BODY equal to the STUN and BODYx2 of the person wearing the second suit (Built as +40 Body and +60 STUN, IIF Independent, with a -1/2 Limitation).

 

The second suit of armor "grants" the wearer a Susceptibility to the wearer of the first suit taking damage (built as a Major Transform, Triggered by putting the armor on, healed by removing the armor).

 

That's the easiest wasy to model this in game terms.