Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

[oryanfactor]

I'm just getting back into Hero after years of learning it....never did play a campaign....and had a question.

 

How long should it take to figure out characters? I've been working on a Leprechaun character and am hours into it. Am I overdoing it? What have players found is the most time effieicient way to develop characters?

 

KR

[boomer]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Hero Creator Software.....it's the best. Does all the math for you, you just fill in the blanks. There are also some cool excel versions of character sheets in the downloads section of this website that have all the formula's built in as well. You should try building basic character's first, then move up to more complex one's when you are comfortable. Trust me, I've been playing Hero for alot of years and just recently started building Multiple Power Pool and Variable Power Pool characters.....

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

A leprechaun eh? Sounds like a tough thing to build at the onset. Perhaps a VPP to perform wishes with? Nahh, just make a Brick.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

That question is subjective. Sales pitches aside, having Hero Designer is a big step in time savings, but not much good if you aren't at least passingly familiar with the system.

 

My suggestion? Post to the board, give everyone a rough idea of how many points they have available, roughly hash out where those points SHOULD go, and let them post ideas and concepts. I'm moderately well versed in Irish/Folk/Gaelic lore, Amadan na Briona is rather well versed, and Susano keeps a warehouse of monsters & character write ups. There're plenty of vets here who would be happy to walk you through the design process.

 

After that? Refinement. Anywhere from 10 minutes to 10 days - or longer.

[gojira]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

I think we've done a Leprechaun before, you might try to search and see if it shows up.

 

It all kinda depends. Any NPC that the players will meet once would be a lot different from a 150 point PC for Fantasy Hero, which would be a lot different from a 350 PC for Champions.

 

And then, what do you want Lucky to do? Brick? Theif? Magic User? Mentalist? So many options, so little info...

 

If you post up the info Thia mentions, we'll have a go at it.

[Rapier]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

You are probably overthinking.

 

Narrow it down. Think about powers first.

 

What powers/attributes are you attributing to the character? Write them out in normal words.

 

"He should have the ability to cast illusion."

"He should have invisibility."

"He should be very lucky."

"He should be small."

"He should be agile."

"He should be love to play jokes/pranks on people."

"He should like to laugh."

 

etc.

 

Then start attacking that list. Build them all. Don't pay attention to points. Build the epitome character. Then tackle Characteristics (whats left after your list). Add up all the points. Figure out how many points you've spent over your Max. Pare back the points on the powers. Consider a young leprechaun.

 

That's how I handle character creation. Start with concept, move to powers, then characteristics, math, refigure math, swear a lot, lower the points in the powers.

 

This is also good for character development, keep the 1st draft (before any lowering of power points), this should create a rough map of where the character is going. This will greatly help your GM and you drive the character towards where you see him being.

 

Best of luck, and if you need any more help, please feel free to give a shout.

[Sunday_Gamer]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Character generation by Sunday Gamer.

Real life example, campaign set to begin next week.

Settings: Borderline dark champions but with super heroics 250pt characters.

 

Step1: Hassle GM until he coughs up campaign guidelines for character generation (max defense, max attack, blah blah blah)

 

Concept 1: Nexus, dimensional experiment guinea pig, teleport abilities.

 

Generation length: 8 hours what with all the tweaking post GM consultation.

Final Result: Very Cool character, neat powers, too powerful. Flushed.

 

Concept 2: Dr.Go, Mutant capable of existing in 5 identical instances.

Generation time: 4 hours or so.

Final Result: Also very cool, coordinated attacks are too dangerous, flushed.

 

Concept 3: Crimson Shadow, born again undercover telepath, masquerading as a mystic. (GM has the patriot act forcing all psys to register and join a government run guild.)

 

Generation time: 3 hours or so, and I'm not done yet...

 

That answer your question?

[McCoy]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

What have players found is the most time effieicient way to develop characters?

To think of them purely in terms of mechanics and numbers, not as interesting characters.

 

If you are a role player, it takes time to understand the character's backstory, motivation, and quirks.

 

If you are a "roll' player, one who wants to get to tossing the dice ASAP, I believe there are links to random character generators somewhere.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Talk about subjective!

 

How much time one spends on a character depends on a LOT. It depends on the character concept, the player designing him, the campaign it's for, and how much knowledge the player has of the rules. That last part is actually of the least consequence. I've spent days on a single character before, writing and rewriting various aspects of him until I have it just right, with everything working towards his concept and background and my intentions of how I wish to play him. Also, I've also just whipped up a perfectly playable character in 10 minutes, complete with background and cohesive concept.

[gojira]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

The problem with Hero is, it's so darn flexible, you never know what you're going to get.

 

Red, Leprechaun

 

“Oi, I’m a leprechaun, don’t cha’ know? O, donea be lookin’ at me like that, I’ve lost me powers. Lost ‘um good, moved south to escape the cold, then these goose-steppers took over. Perh’ps if ya bought me a leettel drink, I could remember me magic…?”

 

Red is a leprechaun living in the Vichy controlled Moroccan city of Casablanca. The year is 1941.

 

Character Name:	Red						
Player Name:									

Total Points:		CHA	22					
		PWR	76					
		SKILL	52					
		DISA	75					
GRAND TOTAL			75					

Stat		Pts	A	L	Real	END			
10	STR	0			0	2			
15	DEX	15			15				
8	CON	-4			-4				
10	BOD	0			0				
13	INT	3			3				
10	EGO	0			0				
10	PRE	0			0				
8	COM	-1			-1				

4	PD	2			2				
4	ED	2			2				
3	SPD	5			5				
4	REC	0			0				
16	END	0			0				
19	STUN	0			0				

OCV	5							
DCV	5							
ECV	3							



Pts	Power Desc				A.P.A.	L	n.a.P.A	Base Pts.	END
7	Luck 'o the Irish: Combat Luck. 3 rPD, 3 rED					0.5		10	1
10	Small: +2 DCV,  ranged attacks only							10	1
3	Life Support: immune to effects of alcohol							3	0.3
16	Been 'round the block: +2 skill levels							16	1.6
-2	Stumpy: -1” Running							-2	-0.2

17	Multipower reserve 50 pts., 1 continuing 20 minute charge per day (- 1/2), only when drunk (-1/2), only with gifted alcohol (-1/2), side effect 3d6 stun (-1/2)					2		50	5
1	(m) Magic Sheleighly, +4d6 HtH					2.5		20	2
2	(m) Invisibility, no fringe					2		30	
3	(m) Images, Sight only, -5 to PER roll, 3” radius				0.5	2		30	
1	(m) Flying, 10”					2		20	
1	(m) Force Field, 10 rPD, 10 rED					2		20	

7	+2 SPD,1 continuing 20 minute charge per day (- 1/2), only when drunk (-1/2), only with gifted alcohol (-1/2), side effect 3d6 stun (-1/2)					2		20	
10	+3 Levels Overall, 1 continuing 20 minute charge per day (- 1/2), only when drunk (-1/2), only with gifted alcohol (-1/2), side effect 3d6 stun (-1/2)					2		30	


Pts	Skill Description								
4	I'm still a Leprechaun!: Martial Escape						+15 STR vs. Grab		
4	Artful Dodger: Martial Dodge						+5 DCV, abort		
3	Hit 'em low: Sacrifice Throw						+2 OCV, +1 DCV, target falls, Red falls		
4	Dirty Fighting – Bite: Nerve Strike						-1 OCV, +1 DCV, 2d6 NND		
5	Stealth, 13-								
3	Acting, 11-								
5	Concealment, 12-								
3	Gambling, 11-								
3	PS: Stage Magician, 12-								
5	Sleight of Hand, 13-								
3	KS: Cassablanca, 12-								
2	KS: Faerie, 11-								
3	Streetwise, 11-								
3	Contact: well connected bartender, 12-								
2	Contact: underworld fence, 11-								


Pts	Disadvantage Description								
10	Phys Lim: Takes Extra Knockback: +3” (Infrequent, Greatly)								
15	Gaes: Can't return to Faerie (All the time, minor)								
15	Faerie: must return favors (Uncommon, Total)								
5	Unluck								
15	Physical Lim: 3' tall (all the time, slightly)								
15	Distinctive Feature: 3' tall (Not Concealable, Noticed)				

Red was a leprechaun 30 years ago. He played a prank on the Queen of the Faeries, who was not amused and cursed him to loose his powers, then banished him from the lands of Faerie. Red was initially very determined to restore himself to the Queen’s good graces. Now he’s 54 years old, is no longer immortal, and he has realized that he will probably die in the mortal world.

 

Red is making ends meet by playing a passable stage magician. His natural dexterity (one of the few leprechaun traits still left to him) help his act greatly. He’s a decent showman and a bit of a ham on the stage. Off stage he is frequently depressed, and sometimes surly for no reason.

 

Being a faerie, Red has some distinct traits. He must return any favor quickly, as being in debt is odious to the fae. He won’t ever use his real name for fear of giving someone control over him, “Red” is only a nickname.

 

Red is getting desperate, and will take wild chances if he thinks there may be something that could return him to Faerie. He is also very afraid of dying alone, as he has no real friends, and he may take risks without regard to his life. If a group of PCs befriend him, he may decide he has something to live for after all.

 

Red is very short, 3 feet tall, with bright red but graying hair. He is not really very attractive.

 

Red's powers only work when he is drunk. Worse, he can't buy and drink the alcohol himself. He has to get the alcohol given to him as a gift. This triggers his gift aversion. He'll try to return the favor to the giver as soon as possible, pestering the person constantly until he is given some task. When he loses his drunk, it's an automatic failure of his powers, which causes him 3d6 stun. With his low constitution, this will probably stun him, and of course he only has 19 STUN to start. So the usual scenario when he loses his powers is he promptly faints dead away. Regardless, his powers can't work more than once a day, and he can't get drunk enough to make them last more than about 20 minutes.

 

There are a lot more disadvantages I could heap on Red. He’s poor, and he’s not fond of modern technology. He hates airplanes and covers his ears and shakes his fists at them when they fly overhead. He won’t use telephones, he can’t drive, and he uses candles at home instead of an electric light.

 

Red’s bite maneuver should probably be ½ HKA, NND, with the same normal restrictions as a nerve strike, and the proviso that the GM should make it a bit harder to bite someone than attack them with a normal strike. Plus, once bitten, any one would be doubly on their guard the second time around.

 

Red was put together rather quickly, so there may be a few technical errors on his character sheet. Review closely before use. Red should probably have a few more leprechaun powers in his multipower. Dispell and entangle come to mind, there are probably many others. Red has no pot of gold, but if precognition or a lot of luck were added to his multipower, he could use his gambling skill to win someone a pot of gold rather quickly.

 

Note Red doesn't speak Gaelic. Although he claims to be an Irish leprechaun, any native Gaelic speakers are going to embarass him greatly.

 

Red is a 150 point heroic character, built on 75 points + 75 disads. He's intended for a Pulp campaign.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Isn't that a Minnesotan accent?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Not a bad write-up either. I kinda like the fact that his powers only work when he's drunk, specifically from alcohol that's been given to him.

[atlascott]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

It depends on the character. A simple character, having super strength and resistant to damage, is easily built. A more complicated character can take hours upon hours, especially if you are new(er) to the rules and actually building characters.

 

If there is "a" weakness of the system, this is it, but it is also a strength, once you use the system awhile. For the more casual player, this is the most work they'll ever do for char gen.

 

Case in point, this is the first Fantasy Hero game I have ever run, and I am STILL not finished generating the 'rules' of the game world and tweaks to char gen and combat. I have a thief whose character was basically complete after our first meeting--simple design, skills and perks and char based character. I have a snow elf drow-killer assassin with some spell casting abilities who, even after session 3, is tweaking his character (with my permission, and partially as a result of my not having had all campaign rules strctly defined as of session one)--largely because of the magic system and martial arts and my custom character costs.

 

Hero Designer is ok, but I'd suggest doing it by hand with a good character sheet a few dozen times to get the process down first.

[gojira]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Not a bad write-up either. I kinda like the fact that his powers only work when he's drunk' date=' specifically from alcohol that's been given to him.[/quote']

 

Thanks. I started thinking "Where's the least likely place for a leprechaun?" since we didn't have a genre to go by. The answer came back to me: sitting in Rick Blaine's bar, begging people for drinks because he's lost his powers. The the character just had to come out, it was like being birthed in my brain.

 

It took me a couple of hours to write that up, btw. I use a spreadsheet template for Open Office to do my write ups. Open Office is free, so if you're interested, I'll post the template for ya.

 

I also only have Sidekick, a $7 PDF and rules "lite" version of Hero System. Just so you can see what can be done with the Sidekick version.

[Lucius]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Sometimes it can take DAYS.

 

I could probably create a very simple character in a half an hour; one I intend to play myself, will probably take hours unless I'm taking something that already exists (my own or another's character) and just "tweaking" it.

 

In this case, I suspect if you're getting frustrated, it could be one of two things...

 

Either you're not really quite sure what "A Leprechaun" can do, or

 

You have a long and complicated list of things you think you should be able to do and you're trying to "stat out" every. single. one, trying to make them fit the concept perfectly, and then trying to figure out how to fit it all into whatever point limits you've set yourself.....

 

Like any other creative project, sometimes the thing to do is to set it aside and do something else for a while. Try creating a simpler character, than go back to the leprechaun. That may help.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Have you seen my invisible palindromedary?

[ideasmith]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

If you need the character for a game, it should be done before the game starts.

 

If you are creating the character for fun, keep going as long as it's fun.

[Silbeg]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

If you need the character for a game' date=' it should be done before the game starts.[/quote']

 

However, don't be afraid to tweak the character afterwards, if it doesn't work. Most GMs will allow rewrites of characters after a couple of games, just to make sure that everything worked as well as expected.

 

Also realize that no matter how much time you take, there will always be things that don't quite work right. Don't be afraid to fix those problems, either!

 

As for my current PC, Soundwave, it probably took my about 10 hours of work to get his first complete version done. However, I was never quite satisfied with the powers construct, so I am working on a leaner, less dice intensive version.

 

To sum him up, he is a sonic absorber and redirector. He doesn't actually create his own sonic powers, he stores ambient sonic energy. That being said, the louder the environment, the more powerful he becomes!

 

Now, the first pass used a triggered Aid power to simulate the loud environments, and a Dependency to simulate quiet.

 

I am changing all of that to remove the Aid altogether, and give him several levels, only usable in loud environments. With these, he can hit more often (adding to OCV), or harder (using 2 levels to add +3 STUN). Seems to be a good construct. The Dependency was replaced by a Susceptability to quiet environments that Drains his END Reserve.

[David Johnston]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Hero character design is a long and arduous process unless you stick to a simple concept.

[gojira]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Its not that bad. Red is not a simple concept, and it didn't take me really that long to flesh out.

 

I wrote the quote first, because that was what was really fixing the concept in my mind, and the paragraph right after the quote.

 

Then I fleshed out the characteristics, which was easy because I didn't want a very physical character. I kept them simple, as I could go back and boost them if I had extra points.

 

Next I started writing down powers, with out points, to get an idea of where I was going. I stated out the couple I was sure of, Combat Luck and -1 Running, iirc.

 

Then I added some skills, which I got from just looking at the skill list. His combat skills went first, because I wanted a minimalist set, and he was very unphysical to start, so I wanted to define these. A little thought and flipping back and forth in Sidekick and I had a good set.

 

Then I added more skills, straight from the skill list. Stealth went on first. Its no accident that he's about the same age as Bilbo in The Hobbit. He's basically a theif, or "expert treasure hunter," if you perfer. The next few skill went on, although not his PS yet, I think.

 

I think I wrote some more backstory next because I was starting to get a firmer idea of who he was. I think I fleshed out his multipower, and picked some point levels. The sheleighly went right on, because I knew I wanted a damage bost, and Invisibility went on, again in honor of Bilbo. I think I added Images too, without points, and kinda lamely wrote in Flying also, although I felt it was more of a place holder at the time.

 

I went back up to his other powers, added the skill levels, and added Small too, checking the points to make sure they were still in line with what I wanted.

 

Then I went back, added Stage Magician and sleight of hand, then I resolved to finish the mulipower. I fussed over Images a lot, as I've never used it before, then threw in flight. I added the SPD and overall levels because I wanted to really give him a boost when using his power.

 

Now it was just a matter of finishing up. I worked on Disadvantages next, and found I had too many, so I tidied them up and kept the most important and got the points where I wanted them. Then I went back to finish his skills. I added the contacts, KSs and streetwise. I added FF at the last minute because I wanted him to have better defenses. Now he was overpoints so I had to par back on of his KSs and streetwise too I think.

 

Then I tidied up the spelling, cut and pasted the boiler plate for the lim on his power, added some more back story to flesh him out more, and voila! Not a bad first pass.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Hero character design is a long and arduous process unless you stick to a simple concept.

 

I believe this holds true for every game system, not just Hero.

[pinecone]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

I'm just getting back into Hero after years of learning it....never did play a campaign....and had a question.

 

How long should it take to figure out characters? I've been working on a Leprechaun character and am hours into it. Am I overdoing it? What have players found is the most time effieicient way to develop characters?

 

KR

Differant for every char and everyone...I've taken 5 mins flat, and I've taken days...it just happens man...it's Art!...

[Wiretwister]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

Would Irish Coffee give a bonus to those powers? Like sorta drunk with a caffine boost?

[gojira]

Re: Newbie Question: How Long Should It Take....

 

You mean Red? That's an amusing idea, but I think he's bordering on cheese now for a Pulp campaign. He's got 117 points of rather powerful stuff for less than 39 points.

 

If anything, I'd encourage a GM in a real game to make things as hard on him as possible.