Agent X Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Read it and weep, Grond fans, Gargantua on page 152-153 of Conquerors, Killers, and Crooks has a strength of 100 at a height of 32". I only bring this up in this flashy way because there are some people on the threads who have said that they are using Grond as a benchmark of the top strength in the Champions Universe and they didn't give me the impression that they knew that wasn't the DOJ take on the CU. Grond only has a 90. There, I just had to get that off my chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Don't forget about Ripper! He might not be stronger all the time, but in little spurts he is stronger than Grond too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith Don't forget about Ripper! He might not be stronger all the time, but in little spurts he is stronger than Grond too. Cool! Grond is not the Second Strongest There IS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X Cool! Grond is not the Second Strongest There IS! Well now technically... • Shirak 100 • Gargantua 100 • Tyrannon 100 (4E) • Ripper 100 (4E) • Grond 90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucleon Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 It's a bit sad indeed. But, Grond still has that extra pair of arms does he? 100 seems a reasonable benchmark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Technically, anybody with a massive VPP like Dr. Destroyer or Takofanes could simply set their pools to be +150 str. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Mmm, not only does he not use deodorant, Grond wades through chemicals and sewage a lot so I'd say , at least to the Olfactory senses, he's still the strongest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Certainly under 4th Edition a STR of 90 was the benchmark. The only characters with more that I'm aware of were Ymir the Frost Giant from the original Champions Universe at 95, and the generic "giant Japanese reptile" from the 4E Bestiary at 115. Contrary to earlier reports (and the implication of the text description of his abilities in Classic Enemies) 4E Ripper's temporary Strength boost as written on his character sheet would raise it to 90 (without Pushing, of course). The original version of Ripper from the Escape from Stronghold adventure did go up to STR 100, which leads me to think that he was scaled back so that Grond would still be the strongest humanoid. Mind you, the new CU sourcebook asserts that Ripper's boost makes him "consistently stronger than Grond." Don't know about anyone else, but I plan to graft much of Darren Watts's fine Hulk writeup onto Grond for my campaign. (So I want a Hulk clone, sue me.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Contrary to earlier reports (and the implication of the text description of his abilities in Classic Enemies) 4E Ripper's temporary Strength boost as written on his character sheet would raise it to 90 (without Pushing, of course). The original version of Ripper from the Escape from Stronghold adventure did go up to STR 100, which leads me to think that he was scaled back so that Grond would still be the strongest humanoid. Mind you, the new CU sourcebook asserts that Ripper's boost makes him "consistently stronger than Grond." Actually, I think we are both wrong. Ripper's STR should be 95 when boosted. Ripper has a base STR of 50, and then 3 levels of Growth (incorrectly listed as 1 level), and then +30 boost. That is a total of 95. With that he is "consistently stronger than Grond." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morningstar Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 "Shirak 100" Who is this guy? Where is he listed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Morningstar "Shirak 100" Who is this guy? Where is he listed? He is from CKC. He is the Lemurian Golem at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith Actually, I think we are both wrong. Ripper's STR should be 95 when boosted. Ripper has a base STR of 50, and then 3 levels of Growth (incorrectly listed as 1 level), and then +30 boost. That is a total of 95. With that he is "consistently stronger than Grond." You know, we're still both wrong. You're right that by the points calculation in Classic Enemies it should be three levels of Growth rather than one, but the book claims that that's already figured into Ripper's Strength listing. Well, let's see: he's got 12 pts. added to the Cost of his STR with the OIF and No Figured Limitations, which should work out to +25 STR for 35 total... 3 levels of Growth for +15 STR, brings the total to 50 which tallies with his character sheet... then the Strength boost is listed as +30, with 4 Charges, OIF and No Figured to bring the cost of the boost to 10 Real Points, that matches the writeup... which gives Ripper a maximum Strength of 80 without Pushing, still less than Grond's 90. Thank heaven for the 5E playtesters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden which gives Ripper a maximum Strength of 80 without Pushing, still less than Grond's 90. Steve is just going to have to fix that then. We cannot have a wimpy Ripper running around in 5th Edition! Thank heaven for the 5E playtesters! I made the mistake because I was sleep deprived. Yeah, that's it. Sleep deprived. I am not a bad playtester. Really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith I made the mistake because I was sleep deprived. Yeah, that's it. Sleep deprived. I am not a bad playtester. Really! Hey, Mon, no criticism of you intended! Quite the opposite, actually: you and your cohorts are a big reason why so few of this type of error creep into 5E books. You can hardly be blamed for misinterpreting the math in the character construction in some 4th Edition products - it's almost proof of chaos theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 You'll see the 5E version of Ripper in VIPER. Trust me, he ain't wimpy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 That settles it. Steve Long posted on "my" thread and he did not dispute my statement. I win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 To paraphrase Rule 3 from 5E 336, "Just because I don't disagree with you doesn't mean I agree." Though in this case, I don't disagree. I've never said Grond was the strongest character, period, in the CU, and he's manifestly not, so it's kinda hard to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamashii2000 Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long To paraphrase Rule 3 from 5E 336, "Just because I don't disagree with you doesn't mean I agree." Though in this case, I don't disagree. I've never said Grond was the strongest character, period, in the CU, and he's manifestly not, so it's kinda hard to argue. But we like argueing... We LIVE for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long To paraphrase Rule 3 from 5E 336, "Just because I don't disagree with you doesn't mean I agree." Though in this case, I don't disagree. I've never said Grond was the strongest character, period, in the CU, and he's manifestly not, so it's kinda hard to argue. Ahah! I'm right anyway. Ahahahahahhahahahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Anyways, have we only sceen just a tip of the iceburg when we see supervillians in the Champions Universe? We only have one Enimies book, and a few villians here and there in Champions, Champions Universe, and Milimum City, with more 'comming soon' in VIPER, and other books. In other words, you people are baseing your information on incomplete information. Not that any information will ever become compleat in the ever changing world of the Champions anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Hey, Mon, no criticism of you intended! Quite the opposite, actually: you and your cohorts are a big reason why so few of this type of error creep into 5E books. I shudder to recall the level of typos in 4th Edition books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by steriaca In other words, you people are baseing your information on incomplete information. I agree, but we have to work with what he have. There will be no new “Enemies†book before 2005 so all we have to mine villains from over the next 18 months are VIPER, UNTIL (might not even have any villains), The Mystic World, DEMON, and Vibora Bay. I am not including the Dark Champions books, as I do not know the true extent of them as of yet - meaning I am not sure if they will be street-level supers or more geared toward James Bond-type stuff. Assuming less than a dozen badguys in each of those books we are probably looking at another 40-50 new villains before a new "Enemies" book is published. I would doubt that more then 2 or 3 of those 50 would be stronger than Grond. My guess would be only Ripper and Tyrannon, and then maybe one more surprise villain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 In my game Grond has a 150 str. He is the strongest. You sorta lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Enforcer84 In my game Grond has a 150 str. He is the strongest. You sorta lose. Now, we both know that is not official. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Enforcer84 In my game Grond has a 150 str. He is the strongest. You sorta lose. CRAP DOn'T TELL STEVE LONG THAT! Herogames can't afford to recall all the books and reissue them with the changed stats for Grondand its to big a deal for them just to Errata it! Its Economic Suicide! PLEASE DON'T MENTION YOUR STAT AGAIN! (insert crappy emoticon. Man I don't like them. They're gayer than my dad thinks I am.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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