TheEmerged Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant for Hire Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Er Hermit... When Hermit said 'flesh them out' he didn't mean that... At least I hope he didn't... Could have been worse. Could have been Obsidian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 AAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUGH its Butt sex man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug McCrae Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Originally posted by GestaltBennie A good superhero team should have a healthy dose of dynamism and soap opera. ... Great stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Agenda Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 On the Champions race thing, that idea for making Nighthawk or Defender a minority would be a cool twist, maybe if we got a better look at them there could be a suprise inside . I like Kinetic, if they had actually put him in the Champions I wouldn't have opened my pie-hole on the subject. I looked at NM Quantum closely and while she could certainly have dyed it blonde, it looks like wavy soft hair to me, not straightened. Plus she just doesn't look like she has African features. I'll take the 30% estimate on blonde dye-jobs for black women in the 90s as exaggeration for effect. Maybe someday the artist will grace us with a clarification, but it's not so important I can't be content to let it remain a mystery (except to Starlord, of course) until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Minor observation: many black people in North America have naturally straight hair. I never thought that the NM Quantum was anything other than black with a hair-color preference, partly because her predecessor in the 4E Champions was black, and partly because her skin color on the cover is so obviously the dark brown tone universally used for black people in comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadorn Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Originally posted by TheEmerged RE: Nighthawk. Speaking for myself and no one else -- I just can't get passed the Birdie Baseball Cap. For some reason it takes away any chance I have of taking him seriously, my brain always mentally adds a beer can on each side and a tube into his mouth. I love the costume of Nighthawk. A Batman-type. Ironclad. Of the 4 "new" Champions, he's the one that has grown on me. Interesting note, he isn't appearing much in the artwork. I don't like Ironclad. Defender is nice to see back, though. Soltaire was great. The other 4th Edition were o.k., except Obsidian. I really liked Obsidian. I liked Rose from 3rd Edition. Hated Giant from third edition; who want's their powers to be taken away every battle? Giant had all his powers in an OAF. Hmmmmmm, if he was my rival I would spend lots of points in Martial Grab. LOL Many other characters were good in the HERO supplements. Too many to mention here. Generally, Hero Games did a good job with many of their villians and heros, I think, but I could think of a few that needed a redesign. Some just had too many wasted points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Originally posted by Doctor Agenda On the Champions race thing, that idea for making Nighthawk or Defender a minority would be a cool twist, maybe if we got a better look at them there could be a suprise inside . I like Kinetic, if they had actually put him in the Champions I wouldn't have opened my pie-hole on the subject. I looked at NM Quantum closely and while she could certainly have dyed it blonde, it looks like wavy soft hair to me, not straightened. Plus she just doesn't look like she has African features. I'll take the 30% estimate on blonde dye-jobs for black women in the 90s as exaggeration for effect. Maybe someday the artist will grace us with a clarification, but it's not so important I can't be content to let it remain a mystery (except to Starlord, of course) until then. I don't like switching ethnicities on established characters. It's jarring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Agenda Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Jarring is a good word for it. From other comments I can only conclude that the copies that were sent to my city must have been printed differently, because all I can make out on Quantum's skin is a light tan, nothing like the dark brown used (I hear universally) for black people in comics, especially if its so obvious. Definitely not a Luke Cage, Misty Knight, Bob Foster, or T'challa skin tone. I've been known to read a comic or two and am familiar with the commonly used coloring. Since my opinion on NM's Quantum was apparently based on a badly-colored batch of the product I withdraw it, since I don't think anyone could mistake what's on mine for dark brown. I am aware of the exceptions to the rules...black people can have very light skin, naturally straight hair, eye colors besides brown. White people can have black kinky hair and dark tans or swarthy complexions. There is a lot of variation and a continuum between the various races. Many people are not easily recognizable as a member of a particular race. Thanks to everyone who took the trouble to inform me about these things, I can understand why someone might assume I don't know. The thing about comic book characters is they look the way they do on purpose. Unless the printer messes them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Besides her obvious African-American appearance on the cover, I base my statement on one of my black friends commenting at the time that she was his favorite of the 'new' Champions. His comment? "She's a good role model. I think it's great that they make a strong-minded black woman the leader of the new team." To me (and him) it's as obvious as the fact that Thor carries a hammer. However, she's a character in a superhero game. I certainly won't argue that any such character is always open to interpretation, not to mention they are just offered as examples and anything about their origin or appearance can freely be modified or changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Originally posted by Doctor Agenda The thing about comic book characters is they look the way they do on purpose. Unless the printer messes them up. Actually, this might not be far off. I seem to recall different looking covers for the NM rules. One WAS of a significantly lighter shade, I believe. Perhaps someone can clarify this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Agenda Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Thanks, Starlord, it certainly sounds like the cover art is the source of my confusion. I did run it by my girlfriend, who should know, and she thought Quantum was a white woman, or, and I quote: "light enough to pass". It was an honest mistake on my part, sorry to have led the thread so far off-track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Re: curious Originally posted by Hermit Anyone else find themselves wishing we had a bit of Fiction staring the 5th Ed champs so we could get to know them better? Except for maybe the Showdown with SAS, I don't think it's going to happen... but you never know. Actually I suggest just this when the Champions universe was in the being thought of stage. IMHO the current characters feel cold. The CNM versions had more heart due to the fiction in all of the books. I especially liked the bios that were written in character. They really made the characters feel real to me. In CNM allies they took villians that I always thought of as lack luster and through the biographys made them living characters. I guess that shows that 1st person narritive is much more powerful than 3rd person narrative. tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Thanks Tasha, nice to have someone agree with me I'd almost reccomend some short fiction in the Champion's Universe as part of the DH, but I don't think that's feasable. Unless it was very good, I don't think it would sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 CNM left me cold. 1st Person Narrative just isn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X CNM left me cold. 1st Person Narrative just isn't enough. The series as a whole really made me want to run it. It really brought me back into gaming after not doing it for 4 years after a messy game group breakup. I ran a game that brought together people who hadn't played any form of hero for that whole time. They loved the new setting so well they suprised me by demanding that I run it using Fuzion. We ended up bending Fuzion some so that we could build more complex characters. It was fun. The book that made me fall in love with CNM was Alliances. That was the book that brought it all together for me. Villians that were just so much cardboard in 1-4 ed Hero were suddenly brought into 3 dimensions. I could understand their motivations, I could see how the characters thought. You are right 1st person narrative isn't enough, there has to be good material there as well. The funny thing about CNM is that it seems that Marvel has caught up to it with it's Untimate series. The whole Reinterpret all of the characters, Blow up something that is a fixture of the game world. Have many heroes and villains that you don't like be in the blast. If you need them to come back write a good backstory about how they escaped the disaster. When I finally run again, I will probably use CNM. With the "official" Champions campaign city being Detroit, I just don't see being comfortable running a game in a place that I have no real context. Running in the Bay Area, gives me home field advantage. I understand how the Bay Area works. I also enjoyed many of the characters in CNM. I kind of found Team Defender somewhat annoying, but still a real inventive concept. It was also jarring having him be such a novice after being used to him being competent in 4th ed. I liked Quantum from that book more as well she felt more 3D with a better background. BTW the Comics inside of CNM (1ed Hardbound limited ED) make it quite clear that she is African-American. She may be blonde, but her skin is dark. Behemoth was a neat brick/metamorph. The kind of person who is always fighting their nature to do the right thing. Solitare. Not a girl anymore, but a competent woman. And no silly widget kludgy focus excuse. Seeker: now more gritty and not a punching bag. Looks really tough. What the 4th ed Seeker should have been from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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