Question: Must I model everything I own?

[L. Marcus]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

So since I have everyone's attention...

 

What would I use to model a camera or tape recorder or similar such devices?

. . . How's aboot Eidetic Memory on Charges and a Only Certain Sense Limitation (-1?). Buy the PER Roll to a suitable level, and voilá!

[Robyn]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

I think someone pointed out to me in another thread that Images would be harder to see if the character was more perceptive. It's Shapeshifting that actually alters how something looks.

 

Are these the electronic "instant cameras", or the actual old-fashioned ones that work by film? Those would have a "negative", undeveloped, and accurately modelling them (to reverse the information so it wasn't visible at first, but could be made to yield the desired picture with a blackroom, proper equipment, and Extra Time) would need a few more steps. If you just want to see the picture right away, and possibly later on, the build will be much simpler.

 

I would waive the "Targeting Sense" cost on Shapeshift, since it's only a 2-dimensional surface (for the picture). Of course, that's just what I would do (others might think that charging full price is reasonable).

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

It's not that bad. PSL for Etiquette' date=' only to cancel out DF: Bad Breath.[/quote']

 

I was thinking Images vs the Smell/Taste sense group....

[Lucius]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

I'd buy recording equipment as some form of Edetic Memory, heavily limited, maybe with some kind of advantage to reflect that anyone can "share the memory" by going through your photo album or watching your home movie. I think that's the official answer, actually, although I could be mistaken; perhaps there is no "official" answer to this one.

 

Another thing to keep in mind; if everyone has one, or can easily get one, it's probably not worth points. Part of the point of points is balance, and there is no balance issue if every hero, every villain, and a majority of other characters, has a home, car, internet connection, cell phone, etc.

 

Also, that "special effects" can apply to things that did not cost points. Someone made a reference to having a home as a "special effect" of wealth; remember, if you didn't take either a Perk or Disadvantage related to money, you by default are "middle class" and having a car, home or apartment, etc is a "special effect" of this not very special circumstance.

 

I would suggest that you try to get away with modeling as little as possible at first, especially when it comes to Perks. Instead of the Wealth rules, just say the characters have income according to their skills and background. Instead of buying Contacts, let them have a contact with anyone mentioned in their background (and since they DIDN'T pay points they have less grounds to complain if you say their old sensei or colleague in the FBI or cousin in Congress isn't available to talk to them.) If someone wants the equivalent of the Batcave or Batmobile right away, tell them you want everyone (yourself included) to get familiar with the rules first before bringing in complications like Bases and Vehicles.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The only problem' date=' oh great and mighty palindromedary, is that I might very well be the guy running the thing, and I'm honestly looking for guidelines on what to stat and what to handwave.[/quote']

 

Something I caught on to after I had already posted. But I'm a guy who rides a palindromedary; I'm used to looking foolish.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

I'd buy recording equipment as some form of Edetic Memory' date=' heavily limited, maybe with some kind of advantage to reflect that anyone can "share the memory" by going through your photo album or watching your home movie. I think that's the official answer, actually, although I could be mistaken; perhaps there is no "official" answer to this one.[/quote']I'd call that being an effect of an OAf/IAF Lim.

Something I caught on to after I had already posted. But I'm a guy who rides a palindromedary; I'm used to looking foolish.

Can't make head or tail of things sometimes?

[gojira]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

So the power only does anything when you want to look at the pictures' date=' everything leading up to that moment (announcing that you take a picture, etcetera) is just SFX?[/quote']

 

Sure, why complicate things?

 

Vampires and such that are invisible to photos thus wouldn't have to take Immunity to some odd sort of Retrocognition; building the camera to determine each Set Effect by what the Focus could perceive (and using normal Senses for the camera) would let it interact normally with standard Invisibility.

 

Too complicated. Just build a camera. Vampires have Distinctive Feature: Cannot be photographed (Limited senses, All the time) that interacts with the camera's SFX.

 

. . . How's aboot Eidetic Memory on Charges and a Only Certain Sense Limitation (-1?). Buy the PER Roll to a suitable level' date=' and [i']voilá[/i]!

 

So is it the camera's memory that is Eidetic? Would it have to be an AI then? I prefer Retrocog with OAF (pictures) because it lets anyone see into the past. I can look at pictures of the wild west in the 1850's and see what it was like (B&W and grainy, apparently).

 

Are these the electronic "instant cameras"' date=' or the actual old-fashioned ones that work by film?... yield the desired picture with a blackroom, proper equipment, and Extra Time) would need a few more steps. If you just want to see the picture right away, and possibly later on, the build will be much simpler.[/quote']

 

Kinda like a gadget pool, that can only be changed out in the lab. Yeah see below...

 

Another thing to keep in mind; if everyone has one' date=' or can easily get one, it's probably not worth points. Part of the point of points is balance, and there is no balance issue if every hero, every villain, and a majority of other characters, has a home, car, internet connection, cell phone, etc.[/quote']

 

This I feel is still the real answer. Cameras are too common, just handwave it. Point costing out a camera is maybe a good way to assure yourself that you aren't giving away too many points, but really, if everyone has one, then why does it matter? "You have a camera..." That's all you need.

 

Also, that "special effects" can apply to things that did not cost points. Someone made a reference to having a home as a "special effect" of wealth; remember, if you didn't take either a Perk or Disadvantage related to money, you by default are "middle class" and having a car, home or apartment, etc is a "special effect" of this not very special circumstance.

 

Quoted for truth.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

So is it the camera's memory that is Eidetic? Would it have to be an AI then? I prefer Retrocog with OAF (pictures) because it lets anyone see into the past. I can look at pictures of the wild west in the 1850's and see what it was like (B&W and grainy' date=' apparently).[/quote']. . . I kinda figured the Focus Lim was a given . . . And Eidetic Memory is a bit easier to use, since it already is Retrocog with the proper Lims. The pics, wheter B/W, color or 3d, would be just an SFX.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

I think someone pointed out to me in another thread that Images would be harder to see if the character was more perceptive. It's Shapeshifting that actually alters how something looks.

 

Are these the electronic "instant cameras", or the actual old-fashioned ones that work by film? Those would have a "negative", undeveloped, and accurately modelling them (to reverse the information so it wasn't visible at first, but could be made to yield the desired picture with a blackroom, proper equipment, and Extra Time) would need a few more steps. If you just want to see the picture right away, and possibly later on, the build will be much simpler.

 

I would waive the "Targeting Sense" cost on Shapeshift, since it's only a 2-dimensional surface (for the picture). Of course, that's just what I would do (others might think that charging full price is reasonable).

 

No it wouldn't - creating the image from the negative is simply the Special Effect of Eidetic Memory; perhaps Extra Time; Only To Recall Images to simulate the time in the dark room.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

. . . I kinda figured the Focus Lim was a given . . . And Eidetic Memory is a bit easier to use' date=' since it already is Retrocog with the proper Lims. The pics, wheter B/W, color or 3d, would be just an SFX.[/quote']

 

Actually Eidetic Memory is +5 Skill Levels with INT, Only To Recall Events. Per the build in 5E.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

So since I have everyone's attention...

 

What would I use to model a camera or tape recorder or similar such devices?

 

Unless there is something about your camera that is special or unique (in a game-mechanical way), I wouldn't both modelling it at all.

 

GM fiat, "Poof, you have a camera"

 

JD

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

A dozen posts debating how to game-stat a simple camera. I know it's not the intention, but we're kind of reinforcing Wolfgar's original point.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

. . . We know -- we shouldn't, but we wanna!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

A dozen posts debating how to game-stat a simple camera. I know it's not the intention' date=' but we're kind of reinforcing Wolfgar's original point. [/quote']

 

heh. Actually it brings to light two points:

 

1) If it's common, and Joe Normal can get it; who cares.

2) If it's not common, the GM and Players need to decide which model best simulates what they want.

[Robyn]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

Vampires have Distinctive Feature: Cannot be photographed (Limited senses' date=' All the time) that interacts with the camera's SFX.[/quote']

 

The power can be built in HERO, though, and would provide frequent advantages for the villainously inclined. Letting them have it for a Disadvantage seems like the vampire isn't being built properly.

 

I'm all for letting Disadvantages/Limitations occasionally be helpful*, and Perks/Advantages occasionally be unfortunate, but would you really let a player take "DF: cannot wear normal clothing because it passes right through them" without taking some sort of Desolid [edit: or Stretching, Armor-Piercing, whatever] to reflect their ability to reach through fabric, just because the SFX of Armor that another character paid points for is "cloth" and that interacts with the DF for an inability to block hand attacks?

 

*5ER, interestingly, is in agreement with me

 

So is it the camera's memory that is Eidetic? Would it have to be an AI then? I prefer Retrocog with OAF (pictures) because it lets anyone see into the past. I can look at pictures of the wild west in the 1850's and see what it was like (B&W and grainy' date=' apparently).[/quote']

 

You caught me sipping as I read that . . . thankfully only water, but still:

 

No it wouldn't - creating the image from the negative is simply the Special Effect of Eidetic Memory; perhaps Extra Time; Only To Recall Images to simulate the time in the dark room.

 

The negatives being a backup (the visible, or positive print, a duplicate) doesn't need to be modelled, then?

 

GM fiat' date=' "Poof, you have a camera"[/quote']

 

Snarky player, "What does it do?"

 

A dozen posts debating how to game-stat a simple camera. I know it's not the intention' date=' but we're kind of reinforcing Wolfgar's original point. [/quote']

 

Quoted for truth

[ghost-angel]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

The negatives being a backup (the visible, or positive print, a duplicate) doesn't need to be modelled, then?

 

 

 

Snarky player, "What does it do?"

 

1) Nope, not seperately. It just comes down to dramatic and common sense - if you make a print, the print exists until the print is lost or destroyed. Simple as that.

 

 

2) Condescending GM: "Act like a camera."

[Wolfgar]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

I feel I should explain that part of the reasoning for the camera was I was actually trying my hand at modeling all the equipment in Metal Gear Solid 3 as sort of an intellectual exercise, and the camera had me kind of stumped. I'm really not that nit-picky. Close, but not that nit-picky.

 

And I didn't really have a point, I was just seeking clarification and guidance.

 

A vampire not showing up on cameras seems to me to be a trait of the vampire's not the camera's, whether you choose to make it a Disad or a Power.

[gojira]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

The power can be built in HERO' date=' though, and would provide frequent advantages for the villainously inclined. Letting them have it for a [i']Disadvantage[/i] seems like the vampire isn't being built properly.

 

Based on the number of times it seems to do a vampire in, I thought it would be disadvantage. As soon as someone realizes you're completely invisible in a photo, they're after you non-stop with pointy objects. Often fatal.

 

For a player, I can see making it a -0 Disadvantage if it's required by the GM, or dropping it altogether so the player won't get harrassed everytime someone notices what he really is (Angel, Spike, ...). But in general, it's one of the leading causes of vampire demise, right after blood-sucking and bad accents.

 

I feel I should explain that part of the reasoning for the camera was I was actually trying my hand at modeling all the equipment in Metal Gear Solid 3 as sort of an intellectual exercise' date=' and the camera had me kind of stumped. I'm really not that nit-picky. Close, but not that nit-picky.[/quote']

 

This is great. As an excersise, cameras are a fun build.

 

Even so, I would probably still make Snake Solid's camera a plot device. He gets in and takes photos. After the mission, the GM talks to Sake as his mission director "Snake, Intelligence analysed those photos you took, and they found something all right. Here's your next mission..."

 

(Note I've never played MGS, so I'm not sure how the actual game play works.)

 

Sam Fischer, the Xbox sneaky guy, has a more interesting power. He has remote cameras that let him see the positions of guards and other places on a level map. That I would definately require as a power. Clairvoyance, IIF (camera), must place camera first (-1/2 or so). Maybe range and Radio preception as well, but that might work as part of the IIF too. As a player, I might try to weasle out of the IIF. I wouldn't want guards to have even a chance to spot them.

[secretID]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

So since I have everyone's attention...

 

What would I use to model a camera or tape recorder or similar such devices?

 

From the Nighthawk writeup in Champions:

Mini-Camera: Eidetic Memory; OAF (-1), visual images only (-1/2)

Mini-Recorder: Eidetic Memory; OAF (-1), sound only (-1/2)

 

2 CPs each, by my math.

 

You might want to put clip charges on the camera, and fuel charges on the recorder.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

Sure' date=' why complicate things?[/quote']Because it's fun!

[TaxiMan]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

I GM a group that was too cheap (ok, and too inexperienced) to buy a base. I had them meet in an abandoned warehouse, and described in detail how

 

the roof leaked

they had to sit on the cold / wet concrete floor

normal guards would walk by all the time

it stank (by the wharf)

they had nothing of use there; no TV, no radio, no food

 

It sucked for them (in game, not out of game - out of game must be fun, or there's no point). I explained that a 0-pt base had disadvantages that made up for the advantage of being able to meet and talk in private. They got a base soon.

 

All that because I was trying to show a new group of players what they could spend experience points on, besides starting some kind of superpower growth spurt. Did about the same thing with skills ("You don't have ? Oh, roll 3d6, see if you get a natural 3.")

[Wolfgar]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

I've actually given some thought to using something similar Money Perk as a way of modeling how posh/spartan a base was in general. For stuff like training rooms, labs, holding cells, security, etcetera, I would have them bought sperately, but just to have the place be really cozy or really uncomfortable could be bought as the Money perk variation.

 

The Perk bought with the base's points, not the character's points.

[Wolfgar]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

This is great. As an excersise, cameras are a fun build.

 

Even so, I would probably still make Snake Solid's camera a plot device. He gets in and takes photos. After the mission, the GM talks to Sake as his mission director "Snake, Intelligence analysed those photos you took, and they found something all right. Here's your next mission..."

 

It has a zoom feature, so I tend to use it as a substitute for binoculars.

 

It's a great game line, although much easier than the Sam Fischer games.

[Robyn]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

Based on the number of times it seems to do a vampire in' date=' I thought it would be disadvantage.[/quote']

 

For the number of times it could be used advantageously, though, shouldn't it be taken as a power?

 

Museum Guard: "Someone came during the night and stole everything, sir, but there's nothing on the security cameras, so we have no idea who it was."

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

For the number of times it could be used advantageously, though, shouldn't it be taken as a power?

 

Museum Guard: "Someone came during the night and stole everything, sir, but there's nothing on the security cameras, so we have no idea who it was."

 

I suppose that would be the way to go, if you had a vampire that was that concerned with material gain. I'd still make them take it as a Disad, in addition, however.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Question: Must I model everything I own?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Desmarais

GM fiat, "Poof, you have a camera"

 

 

Snarky player, "What does it do?"

 

Equally snarky GM, "It takes pictures"

 

Hey, I just noticed - This was my 1000th game post.