Ancient Cultures

[DEFCON Clown]

I'm creating a fantasy world from scratch. Besides Elves, Dwarves, and Humans, all the races are my own creation. I've decided to base each race's culture and society off an ancient culture.

 

Here are the discriptions of the races I need help picking a culture for:

 

Elves: ????

Standard elves, although there is tremendous variation in appearence. So there are no drow elves, or forrest elves, or sea elves, just elves.

 

Cabral: ????

The Cabral are a type of beastmen. Human looking from the shoulder's down they have the heads of goats.

 

Slann: ????

Think Frogloks in appearance. Their favorite places to live are swamps, they have very few settlements outside of the swamps and away from the coast.

 

 

Jurag: ????

Short and made of stone. They are descended from rock golems that became free.

 

Goblins: ????

Small, green, and mechanicaly inclined. None of the races are by default evil. The Goblins live primarily in elborate tunnels or self made caves, although more and more are living in above ground cities.

 

Calebin: ????

A race of humaniods that are naturally predisposed to sorcery. They make much of family and family connections are very important.

 

Undead: ????

Think intelligent zombies. They can only digest meat, normally not a problem since they have extensive herds of livestock. When there is a plague or famine and the livestock diwndle they sometimes attack other kingdoms and take either their livestock for food or eat the citizen's of the conquered kingdom.

 

The civilizations that are already taken are:

Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, Medieval England, Ancient Japan, Celtic, Ancient Hawaii.

 

Any suggestions would be helpful and if you need or want more information about the races please ask.

[Curufea]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

Anglo Saxon, Norman, Gothic German, Roman, Australian Aboriginal (Koori), Persian, Pict, Italian Rennaisance, Medieval Chinese, Samurai Japan.

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

Which would you suggest for each race?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

For the elves, if by "standard" you mean the forest-loving, bow-wielding Tolkienesque elves, I recommend the more sophisticated American eastern woodland cultures, like the Iroquois and the Huron. Mixture of hunting and agriculture for subsistence, flexible and egalitarian near-democracy in government, strongly perceived connection to the spirits of the land and its creatures.

 

The only thing I can come up with for the Slann are the aboriginal peoples of Florida such as the Seminole, who lived among the extensive swamps of that region.

 

For the Calebin I'm going to suggest the Finns. Their national mythic epic, the Kaleva, is rife with various examples of magic and wonder-working, and its greatest heroes and villains are strong in magic. Interestingly, the Finns had a reputation among their Scandinavian neighbors for being sorcerors.

 

For the Jurag I recommend the Andean cultures of South America such as the Incas. Predominantly mountain-dwelling, masters of precision stoneworking often on a huge scale. The Incas in particular were very efficient and organized, and their roads, irrigation systems and terrace farms are among the finest from the pre-industrial world.

 

I'll have to give the others more thought and get back to you.

[Curufea]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

Undead I would suggest Koori - which is tribal and nomadic, which suits their nature.

 

Calebin, I'd go medieval China so you can have Wuxia.

 

Slann I'd have Aztec, even though I didn't mention it - just because that's what they are in Warhammer. I can't see how a non-mountainous terrain would stop them from having an Aztec culture.

 

Jurag, Persian. The name lends itself. Plus they can actually claim a regiment of Immortals

 

Cabral, Samurai Japan - just because beastmen make good samurai in the Usagi Yojimbo style

 

Elves, Norman. There's something very French about Elves

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

Besides Wikipedia do any of you know a good site for reading up on the various ancient cultures?

[Curufea]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

ORB - http://www.the-orb.net/

http://www.ancientpersia.com/

http://www.indians.org/welker/aztec.htm

[Old Man]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

Elves: Just for grins, I'm going to go with Aztec/Mayan culture here. Including the human sacrifice and other nastiness. People stay way far away from the Elves! Just replace the pyramids with Blood Oaks.

 

Cabral: Beastmen seem to lend themselves to a shamanistic and reclusive type of culture, like Minoan. Or Pacific Northwest Native American.

 

Slann: First thing that jumps to mind is Marsh Arabs, but it might be more fun to do a stereotypical Appalachian/Bayou backwater-America culture based around extended families and oral tradition.

 

Jurag: I see these as taking their newfound freedom to an extreme, having essentially no political structure past the village or warband. Like the Mongolians, but without the nomadism.

 

Goblins: Vietnamese. Highly socialist and strongly emphasizing the people over the individual.

 

Calebin: Well, I used bayou already. Australian Aboriginal? Nomadic tribes of these wandering about?

 

Undead: A civilization built around herding livestock... Biblical Middle Eastern, maybe, or Plains Indian. (Plains Native American, I mean.)

[Kristopher]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

Two suggestions for the undead:

 

1) Use the Aztec culture of raiding and conquest, seeking to capture their foes instead of killing them, but not because they're looking for sacrifices...

 

2) A peaceful culture that focuses on introspection and learning -- they have a long time and not much to do -- about which there are many untrue gruesome stories.

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

Thanks everyone for their suggestions! This is one of the reasons I love the HEROboards so much, post a request for help and you get a ton of good ideas from nearly everyone.

 

I have to say some of the ideas you all have suggested I've pretty much decided to use I like them that much.

The idea of having the elves being based on the Aztecs makess me cackle with evil glee, and I love the idea of the Jurag being based on the Incas, I also like the idea to base the Calebin on the Chinese.

[Lucius]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

I can see the Undead as a sort of "subculture" among the living...

 

but a whole independent tribe of them with their own culture?

 

How?

 

Who are these people and where did they come from? Why is their diet strictly carnivorous?

 

 

Or maybe what I should ask is, what the heck does "undead" mean in this context?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that once again I am running ou

[Curufea]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

There is an entire nation of undead in The Scar by China Meiville. They are only hinted at, but their culture sounds very intriguing.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

I'm actually very interested in what you come up with for the undead as I have one in Kamarathin as well. The original stock were the the Malvans (Terran Empire, using the race, not the culture), great big ritual turned most of the nation into undead the few that survived and didn't flee ended up forming a "sister" nation that is dedicated to wiping out the "abominations".

[Cancer]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

"Ancient Hawaiians" are Polynesian a/k/a Maori culture. Great warrior tradition with strong navigation. I don't think they had writing, but they do have a strong speaker/storyteller tradition also.

 

It's very tempting to make the Slann be this culture because of the similarity of physical circumstances (islands/coasts) but I can think of reasons to the contrary, too, never mind that you say it's "taken". Failing that, I'd suggest the Native Americans of the Caribbean, but I know little about those, other than at least one tribe had a rep for being nasty cannibals.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

"Ancient Hawaiians" are Polynesian a/k/a Maori culture. Great warrior tradition with strong navigation. I don't think they had writing, but they do have a strong speaker/storyteller tradition also.

 

It's very tempting to make the Slann be this culture because of the similarity of physical circumstances (islands/coasts) but I can think of reasons to the contrary, too, never mind that you say it's "taken". Failing that, I'd suggest the Native Americans of the Caribbean, but I know little about those, other than at least one tribe had a rep for being nasty cannibals.

 

That'd probably be the Carib "indians"...I know they were considered cannibals (supposedly we get the root word for "Cannibal" from their native tounge, FYI), but that depiction is somewhat contriversial.

 

The Arawak were the other indiginous Carribeans, but from what I've read the distinctions are somewhat arbritray... basically, the friendlies were considered Arawak, and the hostiles Carib... in truth there was a lot of cross over between the various subgroups

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

I can see the Undead as a sort of "subculture" among the living...

 

but a whole independent tribe of them with their own culture?

 

How?

 

Who are these people and where did they come from? Why is their diet strictly carnivorous?

 

 

Or maybe what I should ask is, what the heck does "undead" mean in this context?

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that once again I am running ou

 

There was a Great War some four-five hundred years ago, the war was fought between all the kingdoms and all the peoples of land. There was no victor when the war was over. No one had one the day. The people had lost their will to fight so the war just stopped. It had lasted more then a hundred years and everyone had to rebuild.

 

They first appeared three months after the war ended. A great throng of them appeared on the horizon. They swarmed over the city of Thutmose, devouring every animal, every person, the city was left abandon, and to this day remains uninhabited. They left Thutmose and moved on towards the next closest city. At Heliopolis the throng was turned back by the soldiers and wizards of the Ahren. They destroyed many of the throng before the rest escaped.

 

It was years before any of the creatures of the throng were seen again. A small caravan approached Heliopolis one day, more then ten years later. The travelers were taken to the priests at their request. The travelers were of the throng that had killed the people of Thutmose and attacked Heliopolis. They had come to make peace with the Ahren. They brought many valuable gifts with them to appease the anger of the Ahren. Among the gifts they brought were: gold, azurite, rubies, stone of obsidian, pearls larger then a man's fist, books of magic, and slaves of many races.

 

When the priests took the travelers before the pharaoh and the travelers had presented their gifts the pharaoh's anger was removed and he declared a feast be prepared. Then the pharaoh was told the story of the travelers and their kind.

 

They had awoken in the middle of a battlefield. They had awoken without memory, without language, without explanation. They were intelligent but had no way to communicate. At first they were afraid and would not leave the battlefield, the broken swords, crushed shields, mangled corpses, and broken chariots were familiar to them, comforting. Outside of this, their valley, they were frightened of the strangeness of the land. Even they changing of the skies frightened them.

 

They stayed with each other and began to try and communicate. Many days after they had awoken, after they had begun to feel braver and after they had begun to communicate with each other, they felt something new and strange. It was hunger.

 

The hunger eventually led them to devour the corpses around them. Soon not a morsel of meat remained on any of the bodies of the dead that littered the ground. When the hunger came again they were forced to leave their valley to find food. They ate anyone and anything they came across.

 

Then they discovered the strangest and most frightening thing they had yet, more frightening the lightning in the sky, more frightening then when the moon had disappeared and then returned, more frightening then this ground that was not solid, that shifted in the wind, and burned under the sun.

 

It was a city. Not that they knew what a city was, they didn't even know that what they had found was a city. By this time they were braver then they had been in the beginning. So they approached the city, to find out what it was. When they got close they say things, people moving about and making noises at each other.

They were not hungry then and so did not want to eat these people. They wanted to meet them and learn from them that obviously knew so much. But when they approached the city they were attacked. This frightened them but they also felt something new. Anger.

 

Filled with this anger they killed everyone and everything in the city. It took many days and when they were finished the hunger was upon them once again. So they consumed all the people and all the animals that they had killed. They tried to learn from the city but they could not, so they left. They discovered a road and followed it. It was a long journey and when they found another city the hunger was once again with them. Remembering how easy it was to take the last city, and remembering how plentiful the food had been they attacked this new city.

 

The soldiers of the city defeated them and by those that made lightning and fire. They fled. The fled to the first city, where they hid for days until soldiers from the second city appeared on the horizon. Then they fled all the way back to the place where they had begun.

 

They remained there for years. In that time they made great strides forward. They built a city of their own, they developed their own language and invented a written form, they made weapons, and they began raising livestock for food so they would not have to venture forth and be attacked again.

 

Eventually they were able to read the writing on the objects they had taken from the city they had first found. Some of the writtings told stories, some told of the gods, and others told of the people who had built the city. The people who had built the city where called the Ahren and they had a mighty empire with many soldiers and many wizards.

They knew that they must appease these Ahren or they would find them and destroy them in revenge. So a caravan was sent forth to make peace with the Ahren.

 

 

 

 

That is the origins of the Undead. The only way they can reproduce (and they just discovered this) is to get the body of someone recently dead (and intact) and have their priests perform a ritual to raise the dead body into undead life.

 

 

I could make up some reason why they can only eat meat but the real reason I have them only able to eat meat is so that I have a somewhat plausible reason to have them, occassionaly, attack cities and eat the inhabitants.

[War Cry]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

There was a Great War some four-five hundred years ago, the war was fought between all the kingdoms and all the peoples of land. There was no victor when the war was over. No one had one the day. The people had lost their will to fight so the war just stopped. It had lasted more then a hundred years and everyone had to rebuild.

 

They first appeared three months after the war ended. A great throng of them appeared on the horizon. They swarmed over the city of Thutmose, devouring every animal, every person, the city was left abandon, and to this day remains uninhabited. They left Thutmose and moved on towards the next closest city. At Heliopolis the throng was turned back by the soldiers and wizards of the Ahren. They destroyed many of the throng before the rest escaped.

 

It was years before any of the creatures of the throng were seen again. A small caravan approached Heliopolis one day, more then ten years later. The travelers were taken to the priests at their request. The travelers were of the throng that had killed the people of Thutmose and attacked Heliopolis. They had come to make peace with the Ahren. They brought many valuable gifts with them to appease the anger of the Ahren. Among the gifts they brought were: gold, azurite, rubies, stone of obsidian, pearls larger then a man's fist, books of magic, and slaves of many races.

 

When the priests took the travelers before the pharaoh and the travelers had presented their gifts the pharaoh's anger was removed and he declared a feast be prepared. Then the pharaoh was told the story of the travelers and their kind.

 

They had awoken in the middle of a battlefield. They had awoken without memory, without language, without explanation. They were intelligent but had no way to communicate. At first they were afraid and would not leave the battlefield, the broken swords, crushed shields, mangled corpses, and broken chariots were familiar to them, comforting. Outside of this, their valley, they were frightened of the strangeness of the land. Even they changing of the skies frightened them.

 

They stayed with each other and began to try and communicate. Many days after they had awoken, after they had begun to feel braver and after they had begun to communicate with each other, they felt something new and strange. It was hunger.

 

The hunger eventually led them to devour the corpses around them. Soon not a morsel of meat remained on any of the bodies of the dead that littered the ground. When the hunger came again they were forced to leave their valley to find food. They ate anyone and anything they came across.

 

Then they discovered the strangest and most frightening thing they had yet, more frightening the lightning in the sky, more frightening then when the moon had disappeared and then returned, more frightening then this ground that was not solid, that shifted in the wind, and burned under the sun.

 

It was a city. Not that they knew what a city was, they didn't even know that what they had found was a city. By this time they were braver then they had been in the beginning. So they approached the city, to find out what it was. When they got close they say things, people moving about and making noises at each other.

They were not hungry then and so did not want to eat these people. They wanted to meet them and learn from them that obviously knew so much. But when they approached the city they were attacked. This frightened them but they also felt something new. Anger.

 

Filled with this anger they killed everyone and everything in the city. It took many days and when they were finished the hunger was upon them once again. So they consumed all the people and all the animals that they had killed. They tried to learn from the city but they could not, so they left. They discovered a road and followed it. It was a long journey and when they found another city the hunger was once again with them. Remembering how easy it was to take the last city, and remembering how plentiful the food had been they attacked this new city.

 

The soldiers of the city defeated them and by those that made lightning and fire. They fled. The fled to the first city, where they hid for days until soldiers from the second city appeared on the horizon. Then they fled all the way back to the place where they had begun.

 

They remained there for years. In that time they made great strides forward. They built a city of their own, they developed their own language and invented a written form, they made weapons, and they began raising livestock for food so they would not have to venture forth and be attacked again.

 

Eventually they were able to read the writing on the objects they had taken from the city they had first found. Some of the writtings told stories, some told of the gods, and others told of the people who had built the city. The people who had built the city where called the Ahren and they had a mighty empire with many soldiers and many wizards.

They knew that they must appease these Ahren or they would find them and destroy them in revenge. So a caravan was sent forth to make peace with the Ahren.

 

 

 

 

That is the origins of the Undead. The only way they can reproduce (and they just discovered this) is to get the body of someone recently dead (and intact) and have their priests perform a ritual to raise the dead body into undead life.

 

 

I could make up some reason why they can only eat meat but the real reason I have them only able to eat meat is so that I have a somewhat plausible reason to have them, occassionaly, attack cities and eat the inhabitants.

 

Pretty cool concept. However, I have a few questions/suggestions/ideas to throw your way about these guys. If I'm reading this right, they built their own civilization, incuding a city, writing, weapons, and animal husbandry in ten years. This seems improbable to me. Maybe have it take a longer timespan or introduce a powerful and intelligent NPC as the "father" of the race. Maybe someone who was a mighty wizard or intellectual in life and because of the latent magic was able to retain memories and so guide the progress of his new people. I imagine the undead don't tire and can work non-stop so the process can still happen quite quickly.

 

Another random thought, this time on reproduction. What if it required the sacrifice of a body part as a process to "birth" a new undead? What if it was kept normal per se and both a man and woman had to give up a part of themselves to create a new "unlife"? These two body parts could be fused by the magic of a priest to create an "infant" for the couple. It may be a great honor to cut off your arm to create a new member of the race, and the individual/s who gave up a part of themself would have the honor of "raising" the newborn in their society? Going further with this, what if the body parts sacrificed played a part in determining the final product? For example, one gives part of his brain and the other gives her arm, the new member of the race is predisposed to being intelligent and nimble.

 

How does this culture handle emotions? They have felt fear and anger, now I'm curious as to their reaction when it comes to love, envy, lust, or any other powerful emotion.

 

The whole undeath, cannibalism, and birth from the corpse would probably have a very strong cultural/religious overtone for these people. It may even be a strong driving force behind them. I can picture these people eating the bodies of their own kind when they perish, bestowing great honor upon the dinner corpse and those undead who partake in the funeral feast. Creation and destruction seen like reasonable forces that these people would have a very strong affinity for. After all, it is what made their existance possible.

 

Just some rambling ideas I'd thougth I'd toss out there for you to mull over.

 

There is so much potential in this race. Imagine what you can do with these guys.

 

On the eating only meat bit - check out the Deadlands RPG. It has a really kewl take on the undead, what holds them to unlife, and their diet.

[AlHazred]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

Undead nation: let me suggest you check out Hollowfaust: City of Necromancers. Extremely interesting take on the subject.

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

You're right about the time frame, War Cry. It is much too short. I need the Undead to make amends with the Ahren soon enough that the Ahren would still be looking to take revenge, and take it without thinking of the concequences or anything else.

 

I think I'll probably have to increase the timespan some and also reduce the level of sophistication that the Undead are at when the make restitution to the Ahren. I like the idea of a sort of Father figure for the Undead race. If I use that idea I won't be able to have him retain any memories from his former life. He'll have to be either a natural genius or a magical prodigy. Hmm the more I think about it the more I like the idea.

 

I actually had thought about requiring some sort of sacrifice from the other Undead when a new one was risen, but I tossed it out since then I'll end up with a civilization of cripples.

How I've been picturing "reproduction" for the Undead is like this; when a corpse is awakend into unlife by the priests the new Undead knows nothing, they are fully developed physically but mentally they are infants. The new Undead is then turned over into the care of one or more of the other Undead who will teach the new one all that they will need to know, until they are mature they are basically children.

 

As for emotions I see them as having most if not all of the normal ones, happiness, sadness, loneliness, love, hate, anger, amusment, all of those. I don't think they will feel them in response to the same things a human would. For instance if humans came upon a caravan that's travelers had been slaughtered and left to rot in the sun they might feel anger, fear, disgust. Where as most Undead would see it as a great blessing. Here are either new children or if the bodies are too mangled here is a meal.

 

I do plan to have life and death figure promently into pretty much every aspect of their culture. And now that you have suggested it, I think I'll include cannibalism too. Gives them a touch of Martian. You grok?

[assault]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

The thing that came to my mind is: where do they fit in to the cosmology?

 

How does the universe work? What do most people do when they die? Why are these folks an exception?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Ancient Cultures

 

You're right about the time frame, War Cry. It is much too short. I need the Undead to make amends with the Ahren soon enough that the Ahren would still be looking to take revenge, and take it without thinking of the concequences or anything else.

 

I think I'll probably have to increase the timespan some and also reduce the level of sophistication that the Undead are at when the make restitution to the Ahren. I like the idea of a sort of Father figure for the Undead race. If I use that idea I won't be able to have him retain any memories from his former life. He'll have to be either a natural genius or a magical prodigy. Hmm the more I think about it the more I like the idea.

 

Do you have a God of the Dead in your world? Perhaps he would be moved by pity to send an avatar to these lost souls, who are trapped between the world of the living and the dead, to offer them comfort and guidance. He could also be the source of their religion and the rituals used to replace their numbers. Perhaps the soul of the original inhabitant of an undead body has moved on to the next life, which is why these undead are "born" without memories.