INT question

[Mark Rand]

How high does a character's INT have to be to be a member of Mensa International?

 

Also, is such a membership a perk?

[ghost-angel]

Re: INT question

 

I would say 16-17, and the Perk depends on the game in question. Sometimes it's just flavor text on the character.

[ideasmith]

Re: INT question

 

What the Champions INT stat represents is very different from what the MENSA tests test for: These are different senses of the word Intelligence. A character could concievably have an INT score of 1 and still be elligible for MENSA.

 

Yes, membership in MENSA would be a perk.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: INT question

 

I'd say around 10 INT minimum (remember that a real normal is an 8). And no, Mensa membership is not a perk. It's just a social club that doesn't grant any special privileges. Would you charge for being a member of the Cincinatti Bengals Fan Club? Or having a library card? Or a member of a college alumni association?

 

In some games, it might even be a Social Limitation.

[CraterMaker]

Re: INT question

 

I'd put it around 13 INT or so.. And it's status as a Perk would depend on how you want to game it: If it's nothing more than a social club, no charge (or maby 1 pt cuz it COULD impress someone..)

 

On the other hand, if you can tap their brainy resources to help you in your adventures, it could be worth considerably more.. How do you see your character using his Mensa Membership? That will help you define how many points it's going to be worth more than anything else..

 

-CraterMaker

[David Johnston]

Re: INT question

 

What the Champions INT stat represents is very different from what the MENSA tests test for: .

 

What else would you roll against except INT to determine whether or not you pass an IQ test? While IQ tests may not test all of what goes into INT, I think a high INT character would have to be a character who generally does well at them, in the absence of some kind of specific handicap in that area.

[Mark Rand]

Re: INT question

 

As to what our brainy friend does, he, or she, is Batman's version of James Bond's ally, and engineer, Q.

[David Johnston]

Re: INT question

 

As to what our brainy friend does' date=' he, or she, is Batman's version of James Bond's ally, and engineer, Q.[/quote']

 

Oh well that makes it simpler. He needs at least Int 20. Maybe 23.

[zornwil]

Re: INT question

 

I'd say around 10 INT minimum (remember that a real normal is an 8). And no, Mensa membership is not a perk. It's just a social club that doesn't grant any special privileges. Would you charge for being a member of the Cincinatti Bengals Fan Club? Or having a library card? Or a member of a college alumni association?

 

In some games, it might even be a Social Limitation.

I could definitely imagine a game where those would be legit perks. (PS - I mean as in something not unheard of or terribly unusual)

[L. Marcus]

Re: INT question

 

I'd put it around 13 INT or so.. And it's status as a Perk would depend on how you want to game it: If it's nothing more than a social club, no charge (or maby 1 pt cuz it COULD impress someone..)

 

On the other hand, if you can tap their brainy resources to help you in your adventures, it could be worth considerably more.. How do you see your character using his Mensa Membership? That will help you define how many points it's going to be worth more than anything else..

 

-CraterMaker

. . . Say, a one point Membership Perk and a Group Contact.

[Trained Chicken]

Re: INT question

 

How could being a MENSA member possibly be considered a Perk worth buying? If you compare it to the other one-point Perks, it's pretty silly.

 

Now, having a membership to the Horseman's Club, there's aPerk I could totally buy.

[L. Marcus]

Re: INT question

 

. . . Nah, true. I'd buy it as a Group Contact.

[Vondy]

Re: INT question

 

Hero INT and traditional IQ are two different things. However, if you want to link them, I'd probably just do 1 point of INT = 10 points of IQ (20 INT Human Max) or 7 points of IQ (30 INT Human Max). So, if you need a 120 to get into mensa, you'd need a 12 or 13. Also, its not worth anything as a perk in my opinion, though I can see an older, more mature person who is a member of Mensa taking a 1 point quirk/disad "why did I bother?" or a 5 Point Reputation 8- "Snooty Elitist." At the same time, for someone like Q, he might have been found to be overqualified to be a member of Mensa . I'm not big on INT as a stat, and think most really bright people can probably be modelled by simply giving them good skill rolls, but I'd probably put Q at 17-20 in a heroic game, and 23-25 in a super-heroic game.

[Sean Waters]

Re: INT question

 

What else would you roll against except INT to determine whether or not you pass an IQ test? While IQ tests may not test all of what goes into INT' date=' I think a high INT character would have to be a character who generally does well at them, in the absence of some kind of specific handicap in that area.[/quote']

 

 

KS: IQ tests?

 

I think you make the point well though: a high IQ character without any appropriate skills should do well in a Mensa test, but a character with only a mediocre or even a low INT and the appropriate skills could also do well.

 

To be honest I would thinkt at a lot of Mensa tests probably require some sort of PER or observation roll as the sort of questions asked don't necessarily have the most obvious answer then, when you understand what is being asked, you need an INT or skill roll to actually work out the answer. This makes INT doubly important, or at least acing tests with a low IQ a lot more expensive.

 

Whilst you could build an idiot savant who tests high for Mensa, it is far easier to build a high INT character.

 

Note also that Hero is not really consistent about what INT is. If it is your ability to process and relate information quickly you probably could do with another stat to process it effectively. Given the current rather woolly definition I never really understood why animals have a low INT.

 

What I'd like to see in the PER roll divorced from INT, and given a flat starting value of 11-, and INT re-defined as the ability to think effectively for problem solving and recall purposes. Then smart people would have a high INT, which seems appropriate and intuitive.

[zornwil]

Re: INT question

 

Hero INT and traditional IQ are two different things. However' date=' if you want to link them, I'd probably just do 1 point of INT = 10 points of IQ (20 INT Human Max) or 7 points of IQ (30 INT Human Max). So, if you need a 120 to get into mensa, you'd need a 12 or 13. Also, its not worth anything as a perk in my opinion, though I can see an older, more mature person who is a member of Mensa taking a 1 point quirk/disad "why did I bother?" or a 5 Point Reputation 8- "Snooty Elitist." At the same time, for someone like Q, he might have been found to be overqualified to be a member of Mensa . I'm not big on INT as a stat, and think most really bright people can probably be modelled by simply giving them good skill rolls, but I'd probably put Q at 17-20 in a heroic game, and 23-25 in a super-heroic game.[/quote']

Woohoo, our 2 super-super-intelligent characters have IQs in the 2000 range!

[Lightning91]

Re: INT question

 

If I recall (or have conducted my web-surfing) correctly, Mensa requires you to have scored in the top 2% on ONE of several accepted standardized tests. Tests include: IQ tests, SAT's, GRE's, ACT's, etc...

 

The American Mensa website listes several IQ tests with acceptable scores ranging from 130 to 132. The Wikipedia article indicates that 5% of people have an IQ score > 125.

 

Now the question is how to equate the 2% percentage to the Int score (which I believe is a reasonable method). Personally, I have a tendency to go back to my d20 routes and assume that the characteristics for a random individual are based on rolling 3d6 (with 19 and 20 for the extreme individuals in society). A quick check in the beginning of the Ultimate Skill (which arrived today ) indicates that this would be approximately a 17.

 

Another solution would be to assume a normal standard deviation graph for the populations IQ. A review of Wikipedia's standard deviation article indicates that the top 2% is approximately (i.e. I eyeballed the graph) 2.5 standard deviations from the mean. The same graph indicates that 0.3% of the population would exceed three standard deviations from the mean. Based on this, I think 3 points per standard deviation seems appropriate, which means a mensan would have around a 17 (rounded down from 17.5 per normal Hero rounding rules).

 

Hope that helps,

Lightning91

 

PS. Whether a Mensan membership is worth a 1 pt perk should be determined by whether the GM wishes to provide sufficient benefits. In a Stargate Atlantis campaign, it might actually warrant a perk.

[Dust Raven]

Re: INT question

 

How high does a character's INT have to be to be a member of Mensa International?

 

Also, is such a membership a perk?

8.

 

While a high INT can have the SFX of a high IQ, a high IQ can be represented by any number of things, including skills or skill levels, or even just having a smart player or kind GM. Besides, not all the geniuses I know are perceptive enough to have more than an 11- PER Roll.

 

Being familiar with Mensa, I'd so membership isn't worthy of a Perk, except maybe a Reputation (Disad, brags about being in Mensa). It might be a Perk depending on the campaign setting and orientation though.

[Dust Raven]

Re: INT question

 

What else would you roll against except INT to determine whether or not you pass an IQ test? While IQ tests may not test all of what goes into INT' date=' I think a high INT character would have to be a character who generally does well at them, in the absence of some kind of specific handicap in that area.[/quote']

Who says you have to roll against something to take an IQ test? If you take 10 different IQ tests, each with a nearly identical testing procedure (though with different actual questions), should you get a massively different result for each one? Rolling for a test like this would be like rolling to see what you maximum dead lift is.

 

And since when do people "pass" and IQ test?

 

Also, I've had a number of high INT character who I'd consider to be of avarage or slightly above average IQ. The SFX of their INT was either "fasting thinking and percepting but otherwise not too bright" or "hyper-matabolism makes surrounding world seem in slow motion".

[zornwil]

Re: INT question

 

8.

 

While a high INT can have the SFX of a high IQ, a high IQ can be represented by any number of things, including skills or skill levels, or even just having a smart player or kind GM. Besides, not all the geniuses I know are perceptive enough to have more than an 11- PER Roll.

 

Being familiar with Mensa, I'd so membership isn't worthy of a Perk, except maybe a Reputation (Disad, brags about being in Mensa). It might be a Perk depending on the campaign setting and orientation though.

I could imagine a low-level campaign where being part of any organization is a Perk, as at a very low level you try to leverage any social group you're part of, at least if you have any real connection at all to it besides it being on a piece of paper (much as in life and sort of in line with "what if we statted ourselves in great detail").

 

PS - though I agree with the disad you stated, LOL

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: INT question

 

Hero INT and traditional IQ are two different things.

Well, INT stands for "intelligence" and IQ stands for "intelligence quotient." They provide a (not *the*) measurement of a person's intellignece. We can disagree on what intellignece means, but IQ and INT are really about the same. This is not to say that any particular IQ test is always accurate, or even IQ tests in general. And of course INT is a made up statistic for made up characters. But intelligence is intelligence.

 

However, if you want to link them, I'd probably just do 1 point of INT = 10 points of IQ (20 INT Human Max) or 7 points of IQ (30 INT Human Max).

I don't think there is any simple math formula for translating INT into IQ or vice versa. Off-hand if I were to come up with one, I'd probably make it something like IQ = 60+(INTx5) or INT = (IQ-60)/5.

 

What I'd like to see in the PER roll divorced from INT' date=' and given a flat starting value of 11-, and INT re-defined as the ability to think effectively for problem solving and recall purposes. Then smart people would have a high INT, which seems appropriate and intuitive.[/quote']

Slightly OT, of course, but not necessarily a bad idea. There are also compromise solutions available, like having PER be 10+(INT/10), that way INT still plays a role in perceptiveness, but not as big of a role.

 

The SFX of their INT was either "fasting thinking and percepting but otherwise not too bright"...

What does that mean? How can someone be "fast thinking" but "not too bright"? In real life, you might describe someone as one or the other, but never both.

[Mike W]

Re: INT question

 

How high does a character's INT have to be to be a member of Mensa International?

 

Also, is such a membership a perk?

 

Well, I generally consider a person's IQ to be equal to INT x 10 ( so a 15 INT is a 150 IQ). If you have a 150 IQ, you can get into MENSA. So I would say 15 INT would make you eligible. Admittedly, any attempt at judging such things is going to be imperfect, but I've found that it works as a rough and ready method. Alternatively, if some has lots of INT based skills at 12 or higher, you might consider offering membership since many questions on the MENSA test refer to knowledge more than raw thinking ability. For instance, name a tree that contains all five English vowels exactly once. (sequoia).

 

Membership might be worth 1 point as a perk but really, I wouldn't make someone pay for it. Other than as an excuse to make contacts, I don't think it's really going to have any significant game effects.

[Cancer]

Re: INT question

 

The big problem with intelligence testing of all forms stems from the conundrum "Define intelligence without describing yourself," and then trying to implement what you get after that.

[Markdoc]

Re: INT question

 

Int score? 12 or 13 Perk? Not just no, but hell, no! I wouldn't charge anyone a point for membership: rotary either, which in truth is likely to be more useful.

 

The flip side of "a limitation which is not limiting is worth no points" is that a perk which confers no advantage is worth no points.

 

cheers, Mark

[Dust Raven]

Re: INT question

 

What does that mean? How can someone be "fast thinking" but "not too bright"? In real life, you might describe someone as one or the other, but never both.

Fast does not equal accurate or powerful. I know many people who consistently make unwise decisions or stupid mistakes, and do so very rapidly.

[Lumbering Ox]

Re: INT question

 

But if a city goes leadership, the local Mensa club takes over, at least they do in Springfield in the Simpsons.

 

Getting to rule with the likes of professor Frink and Comic Book guy, thats goota be worth a few points

 

Yes, I joke.

 

I've always assumed IntX10=IQ. A 20 normal max would be 200 which seems right.

 

Just because it is really easy for a PC to reach 13 means that a normal random gen person will have it.

 

I seem to recall for the GMAT that you don't need a 97percentile to get in. Then again the GMAT, LSAT and similar tests are usually only taken by grads who have the marks to get into competitive grads schools, getting a 90% percentile in that group is better then a 95% in a group that includes everyone from Hawkings to the Crazy Cat Lady.