Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

[Steve]

I was recently contemplating how to write up a time travel campaign after watching Dr. Who and thinking how to integrate elements of the series into the Hero Universe without adding the Doctor directly.

 

I would need a renegade from an advanced but static (maybe dying) culture with technology sufficient to travel through time. In the Hero Universe, there is a perfect one to pick: the Malvans.

 

Imagine a Malvan who differs from other of that race, one who loves exploring the furthest reaches of time and space, a willingness to mix it up a bit and stir up trouble, and who has a special fondness for humans for some reason.

 

I'm tempted to do more of a Dr. Who homage and call this character Romana.

[Curufea]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

I've never viewed Doctor Who as being about time travel, or having much in it. To me it is just a narrative device, an excuse to put the Doctor in a different setting. The time travel happens "off screen" and is almost an afterthought to the story itself.

I wouldn't stat it out in Hero - just have it similar to spaceship travel - it moves at the speed of plot.

[Steve]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

I was actually looking at my Malvan time traveller idea as a plot device to bring characters in from all over the timeline, maybe even from as far back as the Valdorian or Tarakian Ages. The Malvan Time Lady (if I go with this idea) has a small, eclectic team of assistants with her (the PCs) as she travels the ages, helping her out with her explorations and missions. It would also let me control the time traveling more easily but still allowing flexibility.

 

What could make things interesting would be if there was an Elder Worm enemy (which would also tie in nicely with Malvan history) who is also able to travel through time, although with their need for environment suits that reminds me a bit of the Daleks in a way.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

This is a pretty cool idea for a campaign. I'd make it Heroic and have the characters become independant of their time frames. This could become a kind of cross-genre game that has some interesting appeal. As they travel to different eras and places they need to use the tools of that era, with maybe a few from others as an edge if needed.

 

Cool concept. Rep to thee.

[Silverhawk]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

I agree with Curufea in that the Time Travel can occur without needing to be statted out. If I remember the old FASA Dr.Who RPG, the PC's were agents of the Continuum Intervention Agency (CIA). Typically were at a point in time where events required their actions to preserve history.

 

This allowed for keeping the Doctor (or any other Timelord) as an NPC for play balance. Unfotunately, my copy is in storage and not easily gotten at.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

I owe you rep for this.

 

I like the idea, and even worked up a version of a TARDIS and even a special car to use when out and about in an other era.

 

If you want them let me find it and I'll post the .hdc files here.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

Not that this isn't a neat idea, but you might like to know that several issues of Digital Hero presented an organization of "time police" called the Temporal League which is firmly grounded in the Hero Universe, including notable operatives drawn from various eras in that universe's history. They could be useful either as the basis for a campaign in their own right, as allies for your Malvan character, as even as opponents for same if she is inclined to meddle in the timeline.

 

Issue #26 describes the history, equipment and heroic-level operatives of the League, and here's a free sample from that article. DH #23 writes up the "super level" operatives of the League, and here's a sample from that. Finally, issue #33 presents new temporal villains and nonaligned NPCs over and above official characters, with one last sample.

 

I should probably also mention that The Ultimate Vehicle includes a "Chronoportation Box" on p. 103, which is very obviously based on a TARDIS.

[input.jack]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

The thing to keep in mind for Dr Who type time travel is that what is important is an -individual's- timeline; once an event has been witnessed by The Doctor, it is, to him, immutable and irrevocable (unless he can figure out a way to change it without it -seeming- to be changed to the rest of the world). For example, in a recent episode, the Doctor was caught in a time differential that led to someone he liked living through about forty more years, and dying. Since he arrived in time to see her hearse pulling away....thats it. He -cant- go back and save her. (Well...he might be able to if he somehow substituted a robot or something to "die" in her place...).

 

That makes events significant to the PC's. They cant just "do over" the last 30 minutes of the adventure when they forgot to bring the Big Bad Device, or something.

[Steve]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

I agree with Curufea in that the Time Travel can occur without needing to be statted out. If I remember the old FASA Dr.Who RPG, the PC's were agents of the Continuum Intervention Agency (CIA). Typically were at a point in time where events required their actions to preserve history.

 

This allowed for keeping the Doctor (or any other Timelord) as an NPC for play balance. Unfotunately, my copy is in storage and not easily gotten at.

 

I think you and Curufea are misunderstanding why I'd like to do a campaign like this. Several years back I ran a game with a paramilitary style Time Patrol, using the old Timemaster system. Part of the reason why this idea of a Malvan time traveler and her assistants appeals to me is that it allows a more free-wheeling approach to the campaign, which I think my current gaming group would appreciate. They could be battling Spanish pirates in the 15th century for one adventure, and then dealing with Thorgon spies in the 27th century for the next.

 

And if I added in interdimensional capabilities on top of time travel, then it seems like it would be quite a fun campaign with endless plot variety.

 

I don't think a Malvan NPC would overshadow the PCs, especially if done on a Heroic power level (or maybe better with PCs as Powerful Heroes). Most of her points would be tied up in various knowledge skills and such, and I'm thinking she keeps the PCs around to do the "heavy lifting" (i.e. combat) when needed. I also like the idea of what sort of characters they could come up with if I give them all of history to play with.

[Steve]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

Not that this isn't a neat idea' date=' but you might like to know that several issues of [i']Digital Hero[/i] presented an organization of "time police" called the Temporal League which is firmly grounded in the Hero Universe, including notable operatives drawn from various eras in that universe's history. They could be useful either as the basis for a campaign in their own right, as allies for your Malvan character, as even as opponents for same if she is inclined to meddle in the timeline.

 

Issue #26 describes the history, equipment and heroic-level operatives of the League, and here's a free sample from that article. DH #23 writes up the "super level" operatives of the League, and here's a sample from that. Finally, issue #33 presents new temporal villains and nonaligned NPCs over and above official characters, with one last sample.

 

I should probably also mention that The Ultimate Vehicle includes a "Chronoportation Box" on p. 103, which is very obviously based on a TARDIS.

 

I'd forgotten about the Temporal League until you reminded me. I have the issues and will be sure to mine them for ideas as I flesh out the concept a bit more. And I will definitely be pulling out my copy of Ultimate Vehicle.

 

I'd see them more as sometimes allies, sometimes foes of Ms. Malva and her intrepid crew of adventurers. I'll have to check to see who the villains are. I do still like the Elder Worm idea I was thinking of, since they would be a great "secret enemy" sort, the type that works behind the scenes mostly.

 

I will rep you for the reminder.

[Steve]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

The thing to keep in mind for Dr Who type time travel is that what is important is an -individual's- timeline; once an event has been witnessed by The Doctor, it is, to him, immutable and irrevocable (unless he can figure out a way to change it without it -seeming- to be changed to the rest of the world). For example, in a recent episode, the Doctor was caught in a time differential that led to someone he liked living through about forty more years, and dying. Since he arrived in time to see her hearse pulling away....thats it. He -cant- go back and save her. (Well...he might be able to if he somehow substituted a robot or something to "die" in her place...).

 

That makes events significant to the PC's. They cant just "do over" the last 30 minutes of the adventure when they forgot to bring the Big Bad Device, or something.

 

Ah, I hadn't known this about the Dr. Who mythos, but I'm sort of a newbie at the series. GURPS Time Travel talks about this sort of thing as well, what they called "The Observer Effect" I think. As part of my homage to the good Doctor, I'll have to study up on such things to come up with my own laws of time travel for the game.

 

I'd rep you, but it seems I must rep others a bit first. XD

[Dale A. Ward]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

The thing to keep in mind for Dr Who type time travel is that what is important is an -individual's- timeline; once an event has been witnessed by The Doctor' date=' it is, to him, immutable and irrevocable (unless he can figure out a way to change it without it -seeming- to be changed to the rest of the world).[/quote']

 

Ooooh!! So, basicly, we're all just Schrodinger's Cat... until The Doctor opens the box!

 

[Curufea]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

Pretty much - sometimes it applies to people to. The people don't know if they are brave or cowardly. Until he shows up.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

Ah' date=' I hadn't known this about the Dr. Who mythos, but I'm sort of a newbie at the series. [i']GURPS Time Travel[/i] talks about this sort of thing as well, what they called "The Observer Effect" I think. As part of my homage to the good Doctor, I'll have to study up on such things to come up with my own laws of time travel for the game.

 

I'd rep you, but it seems I must rep others a bit first. XD

 

In the case of the original source material, I tend to use the phrase "Timedummy effect" for the sort of collary effect to that, which states that everyone in the setting will be completely ignorant of events that are in the future of the time travelers, even if it was in their pasts.

 

The Timedummy effect (which of course would have a fancier formal name) is useful in that it leaves your players significantly less handcuffed when dealing with the past than they would be were it not in play. It prevents them from being predestined to do something they would not wish to in the past.

 

That reminds me -- are DH back issues routinely made available?

 

Also, do the Xenovroes play a significant role in your campaign plan?

[Macamboy]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

I've GM'd Dr Who RPG for a few years and it's a great way to get players anywhere in anytime. It's also a great tool for system crossovers, for example the last one we did crossed over an ongoing wild west adventure with an ongoing Call of Cthulhu campaign which the players loved.

 

I was toying with converting the Timelord system into HERO to keep my gaming systems consistent, but haven't got around to it yet.

If it's of any use to anyone, I've attached the Timelord rulebook PDF, which is freeware, for reference. One thing I like about it is that it emphasised "role playing", rather than "rule playing" and it contains a lot of source material.

[austenandrews]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

Part of the reason why this idea of a Malvan time traveler and her assistants appeals to me is that it allows a more free-wheeling approach to the campaign' date=' which I think my current gaming group would appreciate. They could be battling Spanish pirates in the 15th century for one adventure, and then dealing with Thorgon spies in the 27th century for the next.[/quote']

Reminds me of a premise I was toying with recently, about an extratemporal organization made up of people from all over history. For whatever reason certain families from different eras are chosen to be a part of this group. Time gates are established in their eras to allow them continual access to the organization's facilities and allow members/agents access to all sorts of time periods. So you'd have 21st century Americans working beside 25th century spacers working beside Viking warriors working beside neolithic hunters. The hook was that the main characters are the teenage sons and daughters of longtime agents, attending an extratemporal academy to learn the necessary skills. "Anomaly High" - wildly diverse characters, adventure anywhere in any era, seen through the lens of a lighthearted high school setting.

[Steve]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

That reminds me -- are DH back issues routinely made available?

 

Also, do the Xenovroes play a significant role in your campaign plan?

 

DH issues should be available to you if you have a Digital Hero account. You can still buy back issues going back to #1.

 

The Xenovores will probably have a part to play in this campaign plan, but more the role of BEM (Bug-Eyed Monster). Other than as a bunch of angry beasties with high intelligence, I'm not exactly sure how to use them in this campaign. I ran a short-lived Alien Wars campaign back when it first came out, and that era of time would provide many possible scenarios, especially since my Malvan Time Lady does like humanity. Perhaps she even had a hand in humanity's victory over the Xenovores. And I have one player that really liked his Rigellian character, so this would be a way to bring it back into play.

 

Of course, one scenario that immediately comes to mind would be if other temporal powers decide to try and undo that victory.

 

One thing I'm considering is how to deal with her Malvan looks, one alien from humanity, which would be really bad in more superstitious time eras. One option would be some kind of Mavan-tech image disguise, and the other would be that she's so enamored of humanity that she has herself body sculpted into a human appearance. The latter idea seems to work better with the Malvan psyche, since I imagine that would be a novelty among them, like putting on a costume would be for us, and easy to do with their technology. With the first idea, there is always a chance that the image goes on the fritz, which does provide scenario possibilities as well.

[Steve]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

The hook was that the main characters are the teenage sons and daughters of longtime agents' date=' attending an extratemporal academy to learn the necessary skills. "Anomaly High" - wildly diverse characters, adventure anywhere in any era, seen through the lens of a lighthearted high school setting.[/quote']

 

Okay, that is a cool idea, and reminds me of Teenagers From Outer Space.

 

Rep to you!

[Curufea]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

Actually that sounds like an ideal teen TV show

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

One thing I'm considering is how to deal with her Malvan looks' date=' one alien from humanity, which would be really bad in more superstitious time eras. One option would be some kind of Mavan-tech image disguise, and the other would be that she's so enamored of humanity that she has herself body sculpted into a human appearance. The latter idea seems to work better with the Malvan psyche, since I imagine that would be a novelty among them, like putting on a costume would be for us, and easy to do with their technology. With the first idea, there is always a chance that the image goes on the fritz, which does provide scenario possibilities as well.[/quote']

 

I don't have access to Terran Empire at the moment, but IIRC from their description there Malvans look very much like humans, although they tend to be taller and better looking on average.

[tkdguy]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

I somehow found this website that has some Doctor Who rpgs, including Macamboy's work.

[Funksaw]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

The thing to keep in mind for Dr Who type time travel is that what is important is an -individual's- timeline; once an event has been witnessed by The Doctor, it is, to him, immutable and irrevocable (unless he can figure out a way to change it without it -seeming- to be changed to the rest of the world). For example, in a recent episode, the Doctor was caught in a time differential that led to someone he liked living through about forty more years, and dying. Since he arrived in time to see her hearse pulling away....thats it. He -cant- go back and save her. (Well...he might be able to if he somehow substituted a robot or something to "die" in her place...).

 

That makes events significant to the PC's. They cant just "do over" the last 30 minutes of the adventure when they forgot to bring the Big Bad Device, or something.

 

 

The general rule here is that events are fluid until they have been observed, at which point they become static and immutable. Changing something you've witnessed through time travel results in:

 

A) A temporal fugue loop where time loops through the event again and again until they get it "right." Sometimes the characters are trapped in the loop, sometimes events just keep happening in the world over and over again despite the world moving on.

 

A Paradox, which unravels the skein of time and lets bad things in that generally act like Steven King's Langoliers.

 

Because in either of these instances, the event is resolved or the universe is destroyed - and the universe hasn't been destroyed yet - the end result is a universe where everything that will happen has happened already and if you try to "change" things you're only going to change them to the way they're already going to be anyway, so that really cocks up that whole free will thing. You can save lives, yes, but only in the sense that from an objective perspective you've already saved them.

 

Tricky, but usually Doctor Who jumps so far in time and space that the ramifications of one action really aren't felt.

 

Also, he discovered the secret of the Loch Ness Monster three different times, and it was different each time. I really can't explain that.

[Inu]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

Because in either of these instances, the event is resolved or the universe is destroyed - and the universe hasn't been destroyed yet - the end result is a universe where everything that will happen has happened already and if you try to "change" things you're only going to change them to the way they're already going to be anyway, so that really cocks up that whole free will thing. You can save lives, yes, but only in the sense that from an objective perspective you've already saved them.

 

Tricky, but usually Doctor Who jumps so far in time and space that the ramifications of one action really aren't felt.

It seems he can change things, or at least time travel is capable of it. See the Station 5 episodes of the Eccleston series ("This should be the fourth great and bountiful human empire! What happened?")

 

One possibility is that once he's seen something, he can't change it... but some other time traveller might be able to, if only by accident. Similarly, once The Master has seen something, he can't change it... but the Doctor might.

 

Both modern Doctors have used the phrase "We're part of events now" to explain why they can't just zip around. A bit harder to grasp than simply 'witnessed events can't be changed'... more like, you can change things by your presence, BUT you can't go back and get a do-over. You get one shot only.

 

All in all, time travel doesn't lend itself easily to a game. This was encompassed in a scene from The Curse of Fatal Death, where the Master and the Doctor are one-upping each other by travelling back in time to bribe the architect of the long-abandoned castle they're in, getting him to install all kinds of traps. It ends up getting hideously redundant and impossible to keep track of in a game.

 

So I'd DEFINITELY advise that the actual time travel device itself take a back seat. But it sounds like Steve is planning that anyway -- treating it as a gateway into particular eras, rather than a problem-solving device in and of itself. I approve! Definitely the way to go unless you like seeing your players' brains turn into mobius strips. (Heck, the time machine might in fact only be able to opena window into the past... you can choose location and time, but perhaps from a list. No skipping around freely; you can go to any time period, but not anywhere in any time period. Just plot critical times, not the times the PCs might want to go to. If you just make it Schroedinger-like, then they'll go 'wow, okay, we can't make it there in time. I guess we better cover our eyes and ears and go back to the TARDIS to travel back and hope we don't see anything to make this timeline stick before we get back there.'

 

Also helps if their Time Lady is a moral stickler and stops them doing stuff like leaving bank accounts to accrue for 500 years or whatever. Unless you want that to happen!

 

Roleplayers are, by and large, geeks. Geeks are, by and large, excellent at deciphering systems and doing very strange things with them.

Also, he discovered the secret of the Loch Ness Monster three different times, and it was different each time. I really can't explain that.

Not to mention the two different Dalek origin stories, earth simultaneously dead and thriving from the 3rd to 8th millenia, etc etc.

 

Tennant had a line that, in the old days, parallel timelines were easy to access. It's a copout explanation, but it's about the only one that fits the (dis)continuity.

[Inu]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

As for statting the machine: even if you dont' stat it precisely, some things should be thought about. For one, is it like the TARDIS, in that people go inside and are shielded from the elements? If so, what are its tolerances? Could it appear in space? In an acid fog? On Mercury? In lava? On the surface of the Sun? Could it fly through a black hole?

 

What about its defences: if they run into the box to escape cavemen, can the cavemen force the door open? Go forward some millennia: could catapults damage it? Cannon? Tanks? Anti-particle beams?

 

What's the security like? Could a skilled 20th century burglar break in? Can the lock be picked at all without Malvan technology?

 

Who can operate it? Does it require only the requisite skill, or is there some telepathic/symbiotic link to the Malvan in order to operate? If so, can this be spoofed -- could another Malvan, or the Elder Worm enemy, potentially commandeer the vessel?

 

Hm, what else... oh yeah, can it change its appearances? What does it look like? Will it reasonably blend into its surroundings, or will they have to try to disguise it when they appear in local time (better hope someone knows camouflage techniques).

 

The questions about its defences and stuff can be circumvented if it's not all-enclosing... say, an actual portal, or some kind of hand-held device. But then you've got the guys running around with it, so you can't have the 'must run back to the ship before the planet blows up!' scenario. And it'll be even more tempting to use it to circumvent obstacles.

 

That's all I can think of at the moment!

[Steve]

Re: Time travel Dr. Who style - Hero Universe

 

I don't have access to Terran Empire at the moment' date=' but IIRC from their description there Malvans look very much like humans, although they tend to be taller and better looking on average.[/quote']

 

I took a look through my copy, and the Malvans are described as being dark bronze to light golden in skin tone, with large eyes, red or violet hair, and feathery eyebrows. Based on that, I could see her as needing to do minimum modifications, maybe just to change skin coloring to better fit in. Like Doctor Who, she may also favor some outlandish clothing choices.

 

Mmmm... a tall redhead.

 

They also have a natural lifespan of 800 years, but their technology extends that to effective immortality.

 

One decision I would have to make would be if the technology of time travel is just hers to use, or if there is a small group of Malvans who indulge in this hobby. I could see it as a secret society of sorts, but more like a social club with politics and some intrigue among the ranks. Gee, this is sounding more and more like how the Time Lords operated.