World without Menton

[Trebuchet]

Re: World without Menton

 

Actually they did. They combined Professor x and Magneto is a single being called Onslaught. This being took in Nate Grey and Franklin Richards(the toddler) and was able to use their powers. When Onslaught 'killed' the Avengers' date=' Franklin transported them to an alternate universe instead. Onslaught even Knocked back Juggernaut from Ontario Canada to New Jersey! Onslaught even separated the Hulk from Bruce banner. Eventually Onslaught was destroyed.[/quote']No doubt with still more bad writing...

[Metaphysician]

Re: World without Menton

 

And now on topic....

 

Over the next several months, people begin to realize exactly how extensive Menton's network of power was. The number of politicians he had under his control thru blackmail, bribes and out & out mind control is mind-boggling. This lead to the Psionic Protocols Act.

 

The PPA requires all politicians running for and already in office to be scanned for possible mind control. Also, all Psionic individuals are banned from holding any public office or even working for the government, except for The Psionic Investigators(yes, The Thought Police). And registration of all Psionic individuals. This is expanded to include all superbeings.

 

Will it pass? What will the Awakened do? What will the Champions do? Which side will they choose? These questions are up to you.

 

 

Can't pass. Its flagrantly unconstitutional. At the least, the "exclusion from public office" has to be removed to pass muster.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: World without Menton

 

Hmm. Personal take on things:

 

Dr. Destroyer sits back and watches how things develop. Keeps a close eye on the Awakened, but doesn't take action against them (yet). After all, the only reason he didn't just kill Menton himself was because he didn't want to reveal himself (at least in his own mind), and didn't really care that much about his defection (again, in his own mind). So they accomplished something that he could have done faster, more efficiently, and no-doubt less spectacularly, had he realy wanted to - so what? If the upstarts think this means they are in his league, let them come to him. They will learn true fear should they be so foolish.

 

PSI will almost certainly try to take advantage of this. Move to occupy as many of the minds that Menton just left vacant, fill the power vaccuum as quickly as possible.

 

Mentalla will want to come after the heroes, but I have no doubts whatsoever that Fiacho will keep her busy filling the power vaccuum that PSI can't. Quite possibly in terms of "if you do this, for our cause, we will see to it that they are brought to you" - so they probably did just acquire Eurostar as Hunteds, but not as major foes.

 

However, I have to agree that things shouldn't become worse, thereby punishing them for what they've done. Other groups will be a little wary of them, but mostly watching for them to go down Thunderbird's path. In general, I would have things improve now that Menton isn't controlling folks so thoroughly - a political shift in favor of the people over corporations, massive conflicts resolve over the next few months, things like that.

 

And, as previously mentioned, the IHA screaming bloody murder trying to get things going against mutants in general... but mysteriously stopping not long afterwards. Let 'em wonder why.

 

(PS: "The Reason Why": Somebody other than Menton is pulling strings and calling shots or, alternately, the IHA realizes that they're trying to yell at people... for killing a mutie. Oops. Don't want to draw attention to these muties for not being human-hating scum that want to enslave mankind. But no need to let them know that Menton isn't quietly running the IHA now.)

[incrdbil]

Re: World without Menton

 

Will Eurostar stay in Europe, or will Mentalla insist they go to America to seek revenge?

 

From my POV, this coudl cause a rift--they only way Eurostar might get involved if Fiacho decided that losing Mentalla would be more harmful than expending resources on her revenge plot. He may be more interested in finding a way for Mentalla to learn the reprogramming abilities her brother had--and how better than to find former victims and study their minds......

 

The Champions helped the Awakened find Menton, many of them have CVKs, and are a bit shaken at the result of their help, even if the Awakened saved their lives earlier from Telios.

 

The Awakened are damaged goods. I think the Champions may be unhappy, but they have to acknolwedge the reaction of a tramuatized victim. Defender might even publically suggest the Awakened restrain themselves from superconflicts, and stick to disaster relief. They may take the act of interceding if they thing the Awakened are being put into too stressful a situation, afraid they may get too rough. But listenign to the personal stories of just how much of the Awakened's lives were destroyed--forced to kill their loved ones--I think that understanding and mercy would lead them to forgive them, though they may always be concerned and take efforts to keep them on the straight and narrow, if they can be convinced the Awakened are mentally stabkle enough to be full time heroes again.

 

 

Will there be an increased outcry from the public for more agressive superheroes? Or will it scare them and encourage a tighter registration policy?

 

There may indeed always be a faction of the public that hates them. Others may take to them as proof that superhumans are still human, and the price they have paid reflects the dangers heros face by standign up to evil. I think some may develop a more 'the master villains must be killed policy'--and maybe a bit of mentlaist paranoia could be stirred up by fringe groups like Genocide/IHA "they can make you kill your children!, what will they do to us next!"--the Awakened may find themselves the unwilling poster children for a splinter hate group.

[Weldun]

Re: World without Menton

 

Actually, I'm not so certain that PSI will be all that quick to move in to fill the power vacuum that Menton's demise has created. One thing that struck me when reading their write up is how careful and methodical their activities have been since they went covert. If anything, villainous telepaths will take notice of the results of long term mental tampering. It leads to psychologically unbalanced individuals with a major desire to kill you. While there will be many who will think that it couldn't happen to them, Psimon and Medusa know good and gorram well that they're not in Menton's league.

 

One other thing I do see is a major increase in the funding of anti-psionic technology. Psionic Shields; specialized neural disruptors that, on top of inflicting stun damage, also drain any and all psychic powers; area-effect psionic dampers and psionic empeders that prevents the wearer from using their psychic abilities, and in some models, shocks them if they try (Monkey-king, anyone?). Basically, there's going to be a lot of fear, and there are going to be people cashing in on that fear, so you will have a lot of charlatans selling tin-foil hats. But you will also see an increase in spending on legitimate attempts to indentify and neutralize psionic abilities.

 

Astute readers who are familiar with GURPS will note that the devices I described come directly from GURPS: Psionics, and are all described as being TL 8 (just around the corner, assuming Psionics exist), and TL 9 (the road to the stars).

[Kirby]

Re: World without Menton

 

Actually' date=' I'm not so certain that PSI will be all that quick to move in to fill the power vacuum that Menton's demise has created. [/quote']Of note with 5E PSI is that they are currently trying to take over/subvert Millennium City (leadership-wise). While I could see them staying their course, I could easily see them making a mass "subtle" takeover of the political leadership. Having said that, I could also see a lot of betrayel once they succeed. (When you read their individual write-ups, many of them have plots of rulership that involves betraying their own.)

 

YMMV

[Lord Liaden]

Re: World without Menton

 

And, as previously mentioned, the IHA screaming bloody murder trying to get things going against mutants in general... but mysteriously stopping not long afterwards. Let 'em wonder why.

 

(PS: "The Reason Why": Somebody other than Menton is pulling strings and calling shots or, alternately, the IHA realizes that they're trying to yell at people... for killing a mutie. Oops. Don't want to draw attention to these muties for not being human-hating scum that want to enslave mankind. But no need to let them know that Menton isn't quietly running the IHA now.)

 

One of the nice things about spin is that it can gloss over the inconsistencies in one's basic premise, depending on which passions you want to enflame. The crowds who are paranoid about "the menace hidden in our midst" hear Menton's deeds being played up; those who are law-and-order fanatics have the uncontrolled, violent vigilante actions of the Awakened waved in their faces; while those with rabid hatred for paranormals are reminded of how effective going straight for the kill has proven to end a major threat.

 

Hatred and fear have no need of reason to support them.

[Vondy]

Re: World without Menton

 

Of course, Mentalla may have been aware of the PCs actions and chosen not to act...

 

You could also play it this way: Menton, not wanting competition, put mental blocks in Mentalla that he adroitly reinforced in their occassional meetings, keeping her true powers at bay. And now, with him gone, unable to reinforce it, the dam starts to crack...

 

Another option (or one you could use in conjunction with the above) is to have her quietly take over his networks - either through sheer wiliness, or through her inhereiting Meton's "fear me for I can screw with your minds like no other" genre niche (and a point boost).

 

It could be that she does this and remains with Eurostar, perhaps with their help (as suggested above), or goes off on her own, either remaining allied to Eurostar, or simply abandoning them for sweeter fields. She might know where to get his secret files, or he might have included her in his contingencies. I see her as being more interested in taking over underworld operations than "open politics" - or as serving as a go-between for those worlds - travels with the cream at the top, is equally comfortable with the sediment at the bottom.

 

I'd give her a bump in underworld and social skills, as well as a moderate bump in powers (focusing more on versatility - maybe a 100 Pt. "Mind Games" VPP) - and turn her into a major underworld figure with followers, etc).

 

And either way, revenge could be a very real motive - or she might go after them because they may want to do a repeat when the power-vacuum is filled (hopefully with her in the pole position). And not just from Mentalla. What about Dr. Destroyer? He might have been carefully using Menton as a factor in his plans despite Menton's hated of him - and now the PCs have screwed up some very delicate plans indeed.

 

Or - what if the Awakened discover Destroyer set them up - that he helped them along in order to eliminate Menton once and for all (a double blow to the champions self-assurance...). Or perhaps, Destroyer wanted this power vaccuum - and has plans to draw Mentalla, who is rising to Menton's stars, into his grip (and out of Fiacho's) once more. MWAHAHAHAHAHA...!!!!!

 

And there are all those brain-washed menton-lovers out there. What if one of them is very well placed and can make the PCs lives difficult. A senator, a senior agent with a federal agency - some heretofore unexpected super-villian?

[jkwleisemann]

Re: World without Menton

 

Hatred and fear have no need of reason to support them.

I know. But once in a while, I like to think that they might actually have a stroke or something and their forebrains get a jolt of electricity they're not used to, experiencing a sudden attack of common sense or something.

 

Note that I did provide a few other reasons for that all to be happening the way it is too. I just like the idea of making them paranoid without actually bringing Menton back.

[Manic Typist]

Re: World without Menton

 

Tell them about disturbing dreams they are having.

 

Let them wonder if they mean anything or not.

[Kirby]

Dyslexics Untie!

 

I'd ... turn her into a major underworld figure with followers' date=' etc).[/quote']When I first read this line, I thought it said "turn her into a major underworld figure with flowers."

 

 

Overall, I would caution against throwing in a Menton-threat-clone too soon. The Star Wars novels did this once they ended the Galactic Civil War. Same threat to the galaxy, different origin. Now, there's nothing wrong with someone wanting to take Menton's place, but that doesn't mean that should jump to the Menton level. Make them earn it over time.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: World without Menton

 

A lot depends on whether you want everything in the future to revolve around Menton. I'd be inclined to set some long-range plots in motion that flow from menton's death, but also have some plotlines that have nothing (or at least nothing apparent) to do with Menton over the near term.

[Manic Typist]

Re: World without Menton

 

Heck, if you are in love with the idea of someone rising to fill Menton's role... have the players take a part in it.

 

Have some wannabe hotshot attempt to throw down on them. When he gets trounce, they move on like it was nothing. He then dedicates himself to getting more powerful, just to get at these guys. Maybe he enhances himself with stuff VIPER has been experimenting with... spends years improving his skills and building a network...

 

And then he comes back. The players realize what has happened, and who has been behind all of this stuff they have been hearing about...

 

But that is something you pull much later, after ensuing adventures. For now, just let the guy stew offscreen after he is flounced.

[Vondy]

Re: Dyslexics Untie!

 

When I first read this line' date=' I thought it said "turn her into a major underworld figure with [b']flowers[/b]."

 

 

Overall, I would caution against throwing in a Menton-threat-clone too soon. The Star Wars novels did this once they ended the Galactic Civil War. Same threat to the galaxy, different origin. Now, there's nothing wrong with someone wanting to take Menton's place, but that doesn't mean that should jump to the Menton level. Make them earn it over time.

 

I was actually thinking of something a bit different (though I did propose a way she could replace him if such was desired)....

 

Were it mine to do, I wouldn't bring her up to the Menton level at all. I would make her more powerful, versatile, and crafty than she is now - and give her more perquisites - but there's no specific reason to replace Menton at all. I'd probably weigh her in around 700-750 points, with much more emphasis on perks and whatnot. She'd be a bit more powerful, too, but I'd make sure she had significant "Juice" to go with it.

 

She may have very different goals than he did, and may not wish to maintain all of his assets - just the ones that suit her. Maybe she's more interested in being an information merchant - and developes her assets accordingly (lots of contacts, or oganization contacts, to represent spy networks, etc); a handful of followers representing her inner cabal; at least one burly super-bodyguard; filthy rich, etc.

 

And her modus operandi might be significantly different. It might be very uncomfortable for heroes to go after her (even if she is personally less powerful than her brother was) if she has deniable dealings with major governments, corporations, and organizations on a per-diem basis. Indeed, it could get downright political.

 

I would probably have her keep an wary, albiet useful, relationship with Fiacho. And then, she could call on her old friends Eurostar if it came down to brass tacks - or making tactical moves of her own. Quid pro quo, of course...

[Vondy]

Re: World without Menton

 

Of course, I've always liked Mentalla and she played a major role in my game - becoming an informant and, over time, selling eurostar out after a very long, bitter, and bloody fued with the heroes - for her own not so altruistic motives. Still, it got her amnesty from the US Government, and let her go into business herself. On the surface she lived the life of a wealthy dillitante and patron of the arts (albeit a notorious one); but she was heavy in the illicit art, jewellry, and gemstone trade on the side, and had some shadowy dealings with organized crime figures, scandal sheet writers, and politicoes. Her relationship with the players was very ambiguous, and she had a certain femme fatale relationship with their field leader. They were paranoid about her, but realized her continued value all at one time. Instead of having a quid pro quo relationship with Eurostar she had it with the heroes (who were government black ops types).

[Klytus]

Re: World without Menton

 

Of course' date=' I've always liked Mentalla and she played a major role in my game - becoming an informant and, over time, selling eurostar out after a very long, bitter, and bloody fued with the heroes - for her own not so altruistic motives. Still, it got her amnesty from the US Government, and let her go into business herself. On the surface she lived the life of a wealthy dillitante and patron of the arts (albeit a notorious one); but she was heavy in the illicit art, jewellry, and gemstone trade on the side, and had some shadowy dealings with organized crime figures, scandal sheet writers, and politicoes. Her relationship with the players was very ambiguous, and she had a certain fatal-attraction to their field leader. They were paranoid about her, but realized her continued value all at one time. Instead of having a quid pro quo relationship with Eurostar she had it with the heroes (who were government black ops types).[/quote']

 

I rather do like the cut of your cunning plots.

[death tribble]

Re: World without Menton

 

Certain individuals will exploit the absence of Menton to say that certain people were under the influence of Menton (when it fact they were not).

 

The IHA's agenda for example, clearly Menton.

 

A politician behaving in an odd way say like Donald Rumsfeld. It was all Menton.

 

Several people in prison claim 'I didn't do it, Menton made me do it'

[Steve]

Re: World without Menton

 

How could you prove mental modifications were done? Telepathy only, or could you get away with a Mental Group Sense for Detecting Mental Transformations or Mind Control?

[jkwleisemann]

Re: World without Menton

 

Actually, I should think that Mental Awareness coupled with a suitable Detect would do the trick, and Telepathy would do it easily.

 

Otherwise, in a superhero world, the Mind Control defense would be more abused than temporary insanity.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: World without Menton

 

 

Otherwise, in a superhero world, the Mind Control defense would be more abused than temporary insanity.

 

Or else it would be considered an invalid defense - of the "there is no way to show it is false, and thus cannot be shown to be true" variety. ("prove" actually means "test" - if you can't test something, you can't prove that it's true.)

[Lord Liaden]

Re: World without Menton

 

How could you prove mental modifications were done? Telepathy only' date=' or could you get away with a Mental Group Sense for Detecting Mental Transformations or Mind Control?[/quote']

 

I expect that Steve Long's 5E update to The Ultimate Mentalist will still have some version of the rules for "Mental Traces" and "Mental Signatures" from the 4E version. These are imprints left on the mind of the victim of a Mental Power which can be detected by another mentalist using Telepathy. I personally would allow a Detect to apply to them as well. Mental Traces are the distinctive imprints left by each type of Mental Power, while Mental Signatures are unique to each individual mentalist.

 

Mind you, TUM also describes several means to hide Traces and Signatures from detection.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: World without Menton

 

Or else it would be considered an invalid defense - of the "there is no way to show it is false' date=' and thus cannot be shown to be true" variety. ("prove" actually means "test" - if you can't test something, you can't prove that it's true.)[/quote']

Which, to me, is something I can't honestly believe would happen in a world where mind control is known to be real. Even if it wasn't on the books, the juries would have a hard time just throwing it out the window.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: World without Menton

 

In the world of GURPS International Super Teams, American legislation had created the "three telepath rule" for gathering information via telepathy. That is, if three separate court-certified telepaths agreed on the information acquired from a subject's mind, that information would be considered valid testimony.

[Klytus]

Re: World without Menton

 

In the world of GURPS International Super Teams' date=' American legislation had created the "three telepath rule" for gathering information via telepathy. That is, if three separate court-certified telepaths agreed on the information acquired from a subject's mind, that information would be considered valid testimony.[/quote']

 

That sounds like it walks all over the 5th Amendment and self-incrimination. I *could* see, however, how it would be useful in validating tghe Mind Control defense: it takes three Telepathic Officers of the Court to verify that a subject was under the influence of Mind Control.

[Kirby]

Re: World without Menton

 

That sounds like it walks all over the 5th Amendment and self-incrimination. I *could* see' date=' however, how it would be useful in validating tghe Mind Control defense: it takes three Telepathic Officers of the Court to verify that a subject was under the influence of Mind Control.[/quote']In a world with super powers, especially mental ones, I would on the other hand see this much the same as a lie detector test, yet even more reliable. Only certain questions would be asked and it probably would be limited to the "mind control" and "temporary insanity cases."

 

YMMV.