How does a world die?

[Alverant]

There have been some settings in sci-fi and fantasy that highlights a dying world. John Carter has a dying version of Mars were life is worth little and cannibalism is common. Dark Sun is another dying desert world. But my question is how did these situations come about in the first place? The carbon and water cycles would keep life going in some form. So unless some external force takes away a massive amount of material from a planet, how do you kill a world?

[Trebuchet]

Re: How does a world die?

 

There have been some settings in sci-fi and fantasy that highlights a dying world. John Carter has a dying version of Mars were life is worth little and cannibalism is common. Dark Sun is another dying desert world. But my question is how did these situations come about in the first place? The carbon and water cycles would keep life going in some form. So unless some external force takes away a massive amount of material from a planet' date=' how do you kill a world?[/quote']You've hit on just the right term: "in some form." What matter that some bacteria and lichens survive if anything higher is extinct?

 

Earth's life has come close to extinction at least twice. Change just a few variables and Earth could be as lifeless as Mars. (England, for example, has been everything from the bottom of a shallow sea to a tropical rainforest complete with prehistoric hippos.)

[Duke Bushido]

Re: How does a world die?

 

That about sums it up.

 

Or go a bit further:

 

assuming some kind of eons-long ablation of the atmosphere, what chance has water, ultimately? Thusly could the cycle have ended...

[Bloodstone]

Re: How does a world die?

 

"This is the way the world ends

Not with a bang but a whimper."

 

-T. S. Eliot

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Peregrine]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Iron Age Political Correctness.

 

No wait, you meant biological death...

[Robyn]

Re: How does a world die?

 

There have been some settings in sci-fi and fantasy that highlights a dying world. John Carter has a dying version of Mars were life is worth little and cannibalism is common. Dark Sun is another dying desert world. But my question is how did these situations come about in the first place?

 

The passage of time finally brought the sun close to going out in The Dying Earth.

 

The carbon and water cycles would keep life going in some form. So unless some external force takes away a massive amount of material from a planet' date=' how do you kill a world?[/quote']

 

If you really want to know the answer to that one, consult an expert.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How does a world die?

 

"This is the way the world ends

Not with a bang but a whimper."

 

-T. S. Eliot

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

Dammit, ya beat me to it!

[David Johnston]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Not really a Champions issue unless you're talking about how supervillains will destroy them.

[Cancer]

Re: How does a world die?

 

The impact of a 1000-km planetoid would sterilize the surface of the Earth, boiling away the oceans. They'd come back after the heat of impact was radiated away, but surface life would have to restart from the deep biosphere.

[Pariah]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Consider that the flu epidemic of 1918 killed 40 million people worldwide. Now, according to US HHS Secretary Leavitt, the main way to combat the spread of such a pandemic is containment. Once it gets out, there's little you can do to stop it. Consider that there are a lot more people traveling to a lot more places today than there were in 1918. Introduce the right virus in the right place, and within 3-4 weeks (again, says Sec'y Leavitt) the disease has gone prety much worldwide.

 

It's estimated that the avian flu will kill roughly half of the people it infects, to say nothing of wild bird populations. Now imagine a virus engineered by VIPER or Dr. Destroyer or the like--even more deadly, even more virulent, and even more llikely to jump species. If a virus like that were to get out, we'd all be pretty much screwed.

 

Of course, there's always the nuclear (or is is nuclayer?) winter scenario.

[Manic Typist]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Not really a Champions issue unless you're talking about how supervillains will destroy them.

 

 

...or how the heroes would stop it from happening?

 

Talking about "templates for world destruction" is entirely appropriate for this forum, considering the genre we are dealing with. From here, drag and drop ideas into your campaigns.

[McCoy]

Re: How does a world die?

 

There have been some settings in sci-fi and fantasy that highlights a dying world. John Carter has a dying version of Mars were life is worth little and cannibalism is common. Dark Sun is another dying desert world. But my question is how did these situations come about in the first place? The carbon and water cycles would keep life going in some form. So unless some external force takes away a massive amount of material from a planet' date=' how do you kill a world?[/quote']

In the case of Barsoom, I always assumed that the gravity of the planet was insufficent to hold the atmosphere. Every day, more hydrogen escaping into space rather than remaining in the cycle. The Red Martians were able to keep the oxygen content up, but the planet was dehydrating.

[Metaphysician]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Re: nuclear winter, its a fiction. Even if the entire global nuclear arsenal were detonated, the effect on global climate would be marginal at best.

 

The only way to trigger total climate collapse via atmospheric particulates is with an asteroid or comet impact. Nothing else can even come close to putting enough crud in the atmosphere.

[Grimble]

Re: How does a world die?

 

In the case of Barsoom' date=' I always assumed that the gravity of the planet was insufficent to hold the atmosphere. Every day, more hydrogen escaping into space rather than remaining in the cycle. The Red Martians were able to keep the oxygen content up, but the planet was dehydrating.[/quote']

 

Actually, even on Earth, any free Hydrogen evetually floats off into space.

[Robyn]

Re: How does a world die?

 

...or how the heroes would stop it from happening?

 

Natural disasters?

 

Even if the entire global nuclear arsenal were detonated' date=' the effect on global climate would be marginal at best.[/quote']

 

Not that any of us would care, at that point

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How does a world die?

 

If we're talking about an inhabited planet, which moquif's original examples revolve around, then the actions of sentients are the most likely answer. Natural resources become depleted, the biosphere is devasted from overuse and pollution. Lowering the planet's overall temperature due to millennia of industrial contaminents building in the atmosphere and blocking the sun, locks water up as ice at the poles or underground.

 

In fact I've often wondered what will happen if we develop fusion power. Just what would centuries of widespread conversion of water into energy, free oxygen and helium do to our environment?

[McCoy]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Actually' date=' even on Earth, any free Hydrogen evetually floats of into space.[/quote']

On Earth, free hydrogen is very rare. Hydrogen hydroxide doesn't get too high in the atmosphere because it freezes out. But you're right, any diatomic hydrogen that makes it to the upper atmosphere will probably be kicked out of Earth's gravity.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Of course the essence of a "dying planet" scenario is really a metaphor for mortality; the idea that all things pass in their time, and that just like humans, worlds can grow feeble and senile. It's more poetic than scientific.

[Grimble]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Of course the essence of a "dying planet" scenario is really a metaphor for mortality; the idea that all things pass in their time' date=' and that just like humans, worlds can grow feeble and senile. It's more poetic than scientific.[/quote']

 

I think Lord has it right.

[BcAugust]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Re: nuclear winter, its a fiction. Even if the entire global nuclear arsenal were detonated, the effect on global climate would be marginal at best.

 

The only way to trigger total climate collapse via atmospheric particulates is with an asteroid or comet impact. Nothing else can even come close to putting enough crud in the atmosphere.

 

Actually, there's some evidence super volcanoes can throw that kind of junk up into the air. But then, you're talking more like Yellowstone x3, or the kind of long term building of the Himalayan mountains(Which if I recall correctly, happened fairly fast over geological time). If you want a supervillian way, perhaps actually tearing a continental plate?

 

Of course, for all of this, I actually tend to look at http://www.exitmundi.nl Which I guarantee that will come up with some things you've never even thought of.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How does a world die?

 

In the case of Barsoom' date=' I always assumed that the gravity of the planet was insufficent to hold the atmosphere. Every day, more hydrogen escaping into space rather than remaining in the cycle. The Red Martians were able to keep the oxygen content up, but the planet was dehydrating.[/quote']Some recent studies suggest the Earth's magnetic field (generated by our liquid nickel-iron core) is largely responsible for preventing our atmosphere from being blasted away by solar winds. Since it appears Mars has little or no magnetosphere protecting it, it seems likely that's the true cause of Mars' thin atmosphere rather than lower gravity.

[Alverant]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Re: nuclear winter, its a fiction. Even if the entire global nuclear arsenal were detonated, the effect on global climate would be marginal at best.

 

The only way to trigger total climate collapse via atmospheric particulates is with an asteroid or comet impact. Nothing else can even come close to putting enough crud in the atmosphere.

 

Where did you hear this about nuclear winter? An asteroid impact puts a lot of crud in the atmosphere from one source and has to spread around the world. A nuclear war with lots of detonations puts crud into the atmosphere from many sources around the world. So how do you know the impact an asteroid would lose by spreading would exceed smaller explosions that are already there?

[Alverant]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Some recent studies suggest the Earth's magnetic field (generated by our liquid nickel-iron core) is largely responsible for preventing our atmosphere from being blasted away by solar winds. Since it appears Mars has little or no magnetosphere protecting it' date=' it seems likely that's the true cause of Mars' thin atmosphere rather than lower gravity.[/quote']

 

Which raises the question of how complex life evolved on Barsoom in the first place. What you describe would mean it was always a lifeless world, not one that once had a lush variety of life but is now dying.

[Metaphysician]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Actually, there's some evidence super volcanoes can throw that kind of junk up into the air. But then, you're talking more like Yellowstone x3, or the kind of long term building of the Himalayan mountains(Which if I recall correctly, happened fairly fast over geological time). If you want a supervillian way, perhaps actually tearing a continental plate?

 

Of course, for all of this, I actually tend to look at http://www.exitmundi.nl Which I guarantee that will come up with some things you've never even thought of.

 

Yep. Megavolcanic eruptions could screw with the climate for a couple years, trigger another of those mini-ice ages. My points is, *nukes* won't do it, not in themselves. Though maybe if you buried a couple deep enough in yellowstone. . .

[Metaphysician]

Re: How does a world die?

 

Where did you hear this about nuclear winter? An asteroid impact puts a lot of crud in the atmosphere from one source and has to spread around the world. A nuclear war with lots of detonations puts crud into the atmosphere from many sources around the world. So how do you know the impact an asteroid would lose by spreading would exceed smaller explosions that are already there?

 

Because a large asteroid impacts puts up far more crud than ten thousand nuclear explosions. Its just a matter of scale: nukes don't toss *that* much debris into the atmosphere. Volcanic eruptions in the past couple decades have put more material into the atmosphere than was predicted for a full exchange between the US and USSR, with nothing even approaching 'nuclear winter.'

 

As for distribution, distribution actually works against the effect. If you put the matter high enough up in the atmosphere, winds will distribute it globally anyway. Divide it up into ten thousand separate explosions, and what you get is a quantity of matter that doesn't get up as high, and as a result, all settles out in a short time frame and a small radius of the detonation, relatively.