teh bunneh Posted January 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Bunny' date=' it looks like you're doing great. I'm sorry for having to drop out, but well... real life is rarely neat.[/quote'] Yes, real life happens. One of the lessons learned. I always thought Lightshow had a lot of potential; sorry you had to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM I pretty much always fly things by the seat of my pants -- the one thing I like most about GMing on line, I have the TIME to do that. Your list of notes is more extensive than mine... Some things I've learned over my time GMing: Chat (or PM) with your players from time to time. They can give you some good ideas about where the stories are going, and where they could go... The Timeline is your friend. Especially if you have solo threads and as you develop a game history. It makes it easier for you to keep a sense of 'when' things happened (especially in reference to everything else)... As a GM, use email notification and get the edits. Yeah, it'll let you catch people trying to fudge the die rolls, but the main thing I use it for is keeping track of where I owe posts. My game tends to have multiple active threads and sub-threads at any point. I have a mail rule set up in OE that automatically sorts my game related emails to the appropriate campaigns (I'm in a total of 6, iirc). This makes it easy for me to keep a rough track of where the various stories I'm involved with are going, and I keep unanswered posts marked as unread -- this lets me see at a glance where I need to post when I have the time to do so. Actually, this helps whether you're the player or GM (and I get email for all my games). I've seen too many cases of a game stalling, and it turns out one or more players hadn't seen they were up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM When it comes to FtF gaming and gamemastering' date=' I've got 25+ years of experience under my belt. The whole online thing, though, is completely new to me. I was hoping to be a player for a while before I tried my hand at GMing (and I [u']was[/u] a player in the game I'm running now... for about 2 weeks). FtF and PbP are two very different experiences, in my experience. But it is invigorating in some ways. I imagine perhaps this is how I felt back in Junior High School, when I was first muddling my way through the Keep on the Borderlands with some of my buddies. you're a player in the Thunderbolts, and we appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM I have a mail rule set up in OE that automatically sorts my game related emails to the appropriate campaigns (I'm in a total of 6' date=' iirc). This makes it easy for me to keep a rough track of where the various stories I'm involved with are going, and I keep unanswered posts marked as unread -- this lets me see at a glance where I need to post when I have the time to do so. Actually, this helps whether you're the player or GM (and I get email for all my games). I've seen too many cases of a game stalling, and it turns out one or more players hadn't seen they were up...[/quote'] Having the seperate sub-folders for each game makes keeping up with things much easier. If you're looking at the thread on HC, it's easy to miss a reply to a reply to a reply to a post halfway up the page, much easier to spot if it comes through as an email to a tidy defined space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Here's a random musing, more related to my specific game than to online gaming in general. The Avengers is not a balanced team, and throughout most of its history, it never has been. (I'm of course using "balanced team" in the general way that gamers are used to: 2 fighters, a cleric, a mage, a thief, and a utility player -- or, in Champions terms: a brick, a blaster, a speedster, a mage, a stalker, and a utility player ). Look at a lot of the classic Avengers -- Thor, Namor, She-Hulk, Hercules, Wonder Man, Vision, Iron Man, Giant Man (frequently all on the same team). It's almost always a brick-heavy team. Normally in an RPG, if you put four bricks in the same team then everyone is always stepping on each others' schtick. But somehow, for the Avengers it seems to work. I don't know why. In my team's original lineup, we had Cinnabar (STR 90 with her DI turned on), Iron Girl (STR 75), Dynasty (STR 50), Kolbrandr (STR 50), and Arachne (STR 45). Half the team were bricks! Well, utility bricks, since they all had other schticks... actually, maybe that's the secret. None of them were full, no-foolin' bricks; they all had other things to fall back on. Interesting... Here's the funny thing. When I was trolling for new players, people kept asking "What do you need?" I kept telling them, "I don't need any specific power sets -- I need personalities." I guess I've always seen the Avengers as being more personality-driven than powers-driven. Five bricks plus Hawkeye? Hell, it works in the comics. Something I think about frequently. I think that the "balanced" team is mainly a function of pre-packaged modules/opposition and the desire to have everything "covered". If the module requires a cleric to open door X or use magic item Y, if your group is all fighters and thieves, you're screwed. If you're fighting Eurostar and don't have an easy counter to X, you're screwed. It's archetype-based spot defense. In a more organic setting with a GM or writer, the scenario will be set based on the characters at hand. I ran a long-term game with a team that was usually 75% martial artists and light bricks at any given time. In a pre-packaged scenario they might have run into a few situations that really screwed them not having a mentalist, FW maker, good ranged combatant, etc. Since I was basing the scenarios around them, I could arrange things so with reasonably smart play they could have lots of close-in fights where they wouldn't be terribly disadvantaged. And I do think the "other things to fall back on" and variation is key too to avoid toe-stepping. In the group I mentioned above, the three main martial artists had one guy who could lay a big-die attack down but was fragile, another who was very sneaky, had AP attacks and trick shuriken, and the third was stronger and much tougher defense-wise. While they were all "martial artists" they definitely played very differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnySue Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM My biggest problem with online gaming is that it is very difficult for me to write. Mostly because I'm a very poor speller and I spend most of my time making sure everything is spelled correctly. I know what I want to say, but making sure it comes out correctly on paper is hard for me. So a three line post may take me half an hour to get "right." All that aside, I've been enjoying the game and all the characters. Being the "new kid on the block" lets me surprise the other players with new tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM I'm in the same boat BunnySue. That's why I'm very thankful for the spell checker in the toolbars at HC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Thares' a splelchekker on HC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Sure is. I use it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM I like it! Mainly because I can have my character flirt with the ladies and I don't have physical reminders that they're all played by guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM I like it! Mainly because I can have my character flirt with the ladies and I don't have physical reminders that they're all played by guys. My next character for a FtF game is a 17 year old hot perky cheerleader falling into the whole stereotype... I'm a 31 year old mesomorph male with close-cropped hair. I look forward to creeping everyone at the table out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM But I won't be there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM You can ask Bloodstone or Rapier how bad it could be. Heck, who knows, I might get excerpts in Quote of the Week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Choosing players for an online game (in my experience) is a harrowing process. When I posted for new players' date=' I had over a dozen submissions but only room for one new character. I got several good entries, so it was tough to choose which one I liked the best. I also got several entries where I could only think, [b']"What the heck was this guy thinking of???" [/b]My players gave me feedback as well, letting me know which ones they thought would fit in the team and which wouldn't. Bold mine. I would just like to say when I floated the idea of Aegis/Athena Pym, a female permutation of Ultron, they laughed at me. Laughed, I tell you! Now look at what's coming in the new New Avengers comic; a female Ultron! That bot has gender issues, I knew it! My genius and foresight will finally be recognized. Now if only I could get my lazy, procrastinating arse to write up these character ideas .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Bold mine. I would just like to say when I floated the idea of Aegis/Athena Pym, a female permutation of Ultron, they laughed at me. Laughed, I tell you! Now look at what's coming in the new New Avengers comic; a female Ultron! That bot has gender issues, I knew it! My genius and foresight will finally be recognized. Now if only I could get my lazy, procrastinating arse to write up these character ideas .... It was envy of your genius that lead to the obstruction of your brilliance. *nods* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM It was envy of your genius that lead to the obstruction of your brilliance. *nods* Would bran help with the obstruction? I agree entirely while only understanding marginally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Would bran help with the obstruction? I agree entirely while only understanding marginally. Bran just works on anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted January 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM So I'm sooper-dooper sick right now and am finding it hard to concentrate/come up with creative ideas. Which is teh suxx0rz because the Avengers game is speeding directly along towards the climax of this adventure. So regretfully, I'm putting the game on hold until my poor bunny head has less cotton stuffed into it. I've got some good stuff planned, but putting together more than 3 sentences -- much less a coherent combat situation -- is really tough right now. Should've stayed home today. If I'm not feeling better then maybe I'll ditch work tomorrow and sleep all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted February 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Running a fight is ... hm ... what's the right word? ... interesting ... online. Obviously, things go slowly, due to all the other things that make up an online game. There can be long breaks in the action, if someone goes on vacation or gets sick or something. It's sort of hard to keep things moving at a good clip, to keep the excitement up. It might, in many ways, be better to keep battles to a minimum. Many veterans of online gaming have told me this. But there's a hitch. Well, two hitches. First is that I'm running an Avengers game, based in the Marvel Universe -- and Avengers means fighting. It's what they do, and what they've always done. There is rarely a single issue that didn't start or finish with a big battle-to-end-all-battles. If an issue didn't have a fight, it was because they were setting up an even bigger fight! So, who cares, right? I mean, it's not like I've got Jim Shooter looking over my shoulder and telling me that there has to be more action in this issue. It's my game, I can put in as many or as few fights as I like. And of course, there are other options. Marvel Angst™ is practically its own genre, for example. But ... Unfortunately, fights are pretty much all I know how to do. I rarely go more than two sessions in my FtF games without a fight of some sort. I mean, character interaction and whatnot is fine, but I really feel like I need to throw some two-fisted action in there. I'm not even really sure how to run a game without that particular brand of conflict. I've played in them before, and then tend to bore me after a while. So... how to run a fight in a PbP game, without having it bog down? I haven't quite figured that one out yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM So... how to run a fight in a PbP game, without having it bog down? I haven't quite figured that one out yet. I think part of it is really just expectations. A short conversation in an FtF game that only takes two minutes can take a week or more in PbP to finish. But because it's not action it doesn't feel like that big a deal. Meanwhile, the 90-minute FtF slugfest we expect to rocket along in comparison partly because it's exciting. But it's hard to do, unless everyone is logged on for a few hours straight, firing off replies as fast as they can type. If you have a group that you can do that with ("OK, everyone be on from 10-12EST Tuesday and we'll do the fight") - and it's unlikely - one probably has to live with the delays. For example, in the Thunderbolts game, I think that even with the delays we were going at a decent clip for the Hydra fight, and that took like two weeks to go from seg 12-> seg 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Obviously, having everyone handy is the fastest way to get a fight done -- especially if you're all in chat too, and can deal 'realtime' with all those annoying little side questions ("how far away is 'x'?", "does my char recognize 'y'?") that you sometimes forget to put into the initial post -- or that you just didn't think of... Since that doesn't happen anywhere near often enough, your next best bet is having a group that posts predictably and giving a clear indication of who goes when. This works best when players don't get in a big hurry to post their next action while you're still trying to resolve the previous action (and god help you if the speedster is the slowest poster in your game). You already seem to be doing a good job of this, k_b... If you think details are going to be important, use a map of some kind to cut down on confusion. There's a jpg of a hex grid over in the free stuff, iirc, which with only minimum effort in whatever generic paint program is on your computer can at least handle battle mapping as well as most of us can with a battlemap and markers. Winterhawk uses that over in 'A Game of Chance' to good effect. When I feel the need for a map, I use AutoREALM (which is free), but it has a lot more of a learning curve for those of us who aren't necessarily that familiar with similar programs (I could make it do basic stuff easy enough, but I managed to get a lot more out of it once a friend who regularly makes presentations with stuff like PowerPoint and what-not showed me a few tricks). I also know a few games where the GMs use Photo Shop to make maps, so you've got a lot of potential options depending on what resources you have available, and the time you have to use them... If you're not going to use a map, make sure you have a common set of assumptions with your PCs. Unless you state otherwise as GM, PCs are assumed to be within a half move of all villains. If a PC posts an action that makes use of something you hadn't considered might be available, go with it unless you've got a good reason not to... All of the tricks suggested for speeding up combat in the book are a really good idea online. Don't waste time giving agents and low level minions recoveries -- once they're down, they stay down. I usually don't even bother tracking stun with agents; a good hit will stun them, two hits will drop them, a really good hit and they're out. I don't usually worry about giving villains recoveries either, if they're further down than one Recovery will suffice to give them positive numbers (and not even then unless I think it's going to make a difference in the fight) they're out of the fight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Running a fight is ... hm ... what's the right word? ... interesting ... online. Obviously, things go slowly, due to all the other things that make up an online game. There can be long breaks in the action, if someone goes on vacation or gets sick or something. It's sort of hard to keep things moving at a good clip, to keep the excitement up. It might, in many ways, be better to keep battles to a minimum. Many veterans of online gaming have told me this. But there's a hitch. Well, two hitches. First is that I'm running an Avengers game, based in the Marvel Universe -- and Avengers means fighting. It's what they do, and what they've always done. There is rarely a single issue that didn't start or finish with a big battle-to-end-all-battles. If an issue didn't have a fight, it was because they were setting up an even bigger fight! So, who cares, right? I mean, it's not like I've got Jim Shooter looking over my shoulder and telling me that there has to be more action in this issue. It's my game, I can put in as many or as few fights as I like. And of course, there are other options. Marvel Angst™ is practically its own genre, for example. But ... Unfortunately, fights are pretty much all I know how to do. I rarely go more than two sessions in my FtF games without a fight of some sort. I mean, character interaction and whatnot is fine, but I really feel like I need to throw some two-fisted action in there. I'm not even really sure how to run a game without that particular brand of conflict. I've played in them before, and then tend to bore me after a while. So... how to run a fight in a PbP game, without having it bog down? I haven't quite figured that one out yet. I've considered this, wondered on how to pull it off. I tend to think a more abstract combat would work well, with players describing more their tactics for the first "few" Phases (in HERO terms of course). Lamrok once suggested octaNe, which uses a very simple and abstract conflict resolution system, could be easily grafted onto many systems, including HERO, for PBEMs specifically. It's an interesting thought, as octaNe uses minimal dice-rolling and maximal description - but it can disenchant some players as it's "fudgy" in results (essentially the final result you drive to at each step is "player full control," "player partial control," "GM partial control," and "GM full control" over the outcome). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM I'm using a map for a 'danger room' scenario I'm running for the Shadow Guard kids, and thought I'd post it here too as an example of one way to handle mapping.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Just finished up with the fight I posted the map for above. Initial post for the thread was on Feb 12 and today is Feb 21, so the fight took about a week and a half to game out and lasted for just over one Turn of game time. Four PCs vs three villains (Black Diamond, Bluejay, and Cateran -- all from CKC) in a 'danger room' scenario. I'm adding the link to the thread for anyone who might want to see how it went. My posting was slow in parts because of weather and work (when you work in logistics/transportation the two tend to be interrelated). The maps I have attached in the thread are only good for two weeks, but the initial map is posted above and I'll post the 'final' map here as well... ...Shadow Guard (lessons)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savinien Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: Confessions of an Online GM Expectations is what is bringing you down. First off, request an average of a post a day, with the caveat of more during combat if you can get it. Then, try to be structured. Post what you can as GM and then give what you're looking for from the players. If you can also get the players to put a few options in their posts, that can help. A lot of holding actions and aborting doesn't always work that well, but we make do, don't we? Like Tom mentioned, if you can get everyone on around the same time firing off posts, or IM/CHAT/PM back and forth with the niggling questions, that can help too. I've ran 5+ turn combats in both Annals of the Mask and Fourth Age in less than a week with 30 + combatants. Back in HCv1 I ran a combat between PCs (yes supers and villains) and it worked out fairly well. Everyone seemed to enjoy themselves, even the defeated. Anywho... It can work, but it takes some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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