Strength of Zero

[torelin32]

I have a player who is playing a mentalist and has reduce his strength to zero to gleen more points for powers. Reviewing the champions handbook, I compared a small child also with a strength of zero. It just doesn't make sense to me that a full grown adult with a strength of zero can move easily about without any impairments as a child with a strength of zero. If we look at real world examples a person weighing let's say 200kg has a difficult time moving, and can move with the aid of devices if they are lucky, but not at a remarkable rate of speed which is 6" inches/turn usually. Would it be reasonable to assume that in order to lift something in this game, you would also have to be able to move your own body mass to do anything. So a character with a strength of zero as an adult would have to lift let's say 45kg as their own weight to be able to move properly, but a strength of zero in this case would not suffice because you can only lift 25kg with a strength of zero and thus you would be impaired and would have difficulty moving about.

 

I would really like opinions from you guys, since I am at a lose on how to rule this ?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

That's a munchkin trick I haven't seen in a while.

 

I would state that STR0 on a normal person would not be able to move themselves around.

 

They should take other losses and disadvantages to help explain why they are so physically weak.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

I would just point out all the consequences to the player according to the rulebook.

 

from Hero System 5th Edition, Revised

Chapter One

 

page 36

 

Negative STR prevents a character from Leaping, as indicated on the Strength Table. It also impairs a character’s STR-based movement. Typically this includes Running, Swimming, Swinging, Tunneling, and Flight or Gliding based on muscle power (such as most types of wings). At STR 0, halve the character’s STR-based movement...

 

Negative STR affects DCV the same way it affects movement: halve DCV at STR 0...

 

page 39

 

A character may sell back each and every Primary Characteristic below the listed value, but only one Figured Characteristic, and may not reduce any Primary Characteristic below 5 without the GM’s permission. In any case, the minimum value of a Characteristic is always 1, except in situations where the GM allows characters to buy negative Characteristics (such as negative COM).

[Outsider]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

Is he gimping (to a lesser degree) his CON and BOD as well?

 

If so, he's gonna be NND bait with that whopping 12 STUN he's got...

[薔薇語]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

Personally I think it is a travesty if your player is so dead set on the points that he would do that to himself. I as the GM just wouldn't allow it. I agree with you on the item that inorder to move around in a resonable manner you must have a reasonable str to account for it.

 

If he insist on having that low of a str, and you allow it. You could just have him scale back his run. And being that I'm vicious to power gamers I would get a TK master to grapple him all the time and prevent him from doing anything, you would only need about 4pts of TK Str w/ LOS and a few skill levels for Str based checks.

 

 

La Rose

[Rapier]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

Right on the money. The character does not have enough STR to move around. Check p36 of 5eR.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

That's a munchkin trick I haven't seen in a while.

If anything, I'd call it an anti-munchkin trick. Maybe his goal is to save points, but he's doing the opposite. He's hosing himself.

 

He saves 10 points and loses 5 STUN, 2 REC, and 2 PD. That's 11 points of figureds.

 

Plus he can't leap or make HtH attacks without pushing (assuming you'd even let him push from 0). He has almost no lifting or throwing capacity to speak of.

 

But I'd let him keep his Running if he didn't seel it back. I'd still let him move around normally if he didn't take a Phys Lim saying otherwise. It's less of a stretch than the existance of mental powers. Maybe he moves around by force of will. Maybe TK is the SFX of his Running.

 

But, yes, by the rules, he can only sell it down to 1, not 0. So he saves 9 and loses 10.

 

I've wanted to do this with a character: a physically frail wizard. But the drawbacks of reduced STR make it unviable, IMO. Even to sell STR down to 5 weakens you so much that I am loathe to do it, even for a character that should be weak. You gain 5 points, but lose 5 (2 STUN, 1 REC, 1 PD), and you lose 1" leaping and all the other benefits of STR.

 

Ignore this if you can:

That's one of the reasons why I raise the price of STR to 2.

Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

If anything' date=' I'd call it an anti-munchkin trick. Maybe his goal is to save points, but he's doing the opposite. He's hosing himself.[/quote']

 

I didn't say it was a good trick. Or even clever. Just that I hadn't seen it in a while.

 

It's a newbie Munchkin trick either way.

[JmOz]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

Well, comic geek coming through

 

First thing I thought of was Hector Hammond (GL villain)

 

I would sit down and make sure he understood what he was dooing...

[Alibear]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

Isn't this a standard trope for magicians and psychers that they concentrate on the power of the mind so much that their physical body suffers for it?

 

Xavier hauling himself around in a wheelchair would be the obvious example from the comics of this sort of thing.

[Greywind]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

Xavier was in an accident that paralyzed his legs. That's why he is in a wheelchair.

[JmOz]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

on the mystics, it depends, that is more a fantasy trope, in comics they are usualy in decent if not exceptional shape, only two I can think of who were not, one was Ancient (Ancient One) the other was overweight named Dr.druid

 

Having said that Str 0 is extremly low, I mean if someone came to me with a super Mage who had a str 8 I would say ok, but str 3, I don't think so

[Greywind]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

Dr. Fate is actually kind of beefy following his time as Silver Scarab.

 

Dr. Strange is also a trained martial artist, not that he uses the skills much.

[JmOz]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

For that matter the Kent Nelson Dr Fate was able to do a decent Super-man type without his real Magic Helmet (AKA Nabu). However some of that was spells

[CourtFool]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

I foresee other problems that will far overshadow how to handle a character with a 0 STR.

 

I Smell Munchkin - Detect Munchkin (5 Active Points), Extra Time (1 Turn; -1¼), Only From Second Hand Account of Activities (-¼) (2 Active Points)

[Checkmate]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

on the mystics' date=' it depends, that is more a fantasy trope, in comics they are usualy in decent if not exceptional shape, only two I can think of who were not, one was Ancient (Ancient One) the other was overweight named Dr.druid[/quote']

Actually Dr. Druid was an accomplished hand to hand fighter too (when the writers remembered anyway).

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

For fun, I used the encumbrance rules to see what would happen at 0 STR.

 

At 0 STR, you are expected to weigh 55 pounds (25 kg).

Assume this guy is literally "an 80 pound weakling" which means he's carrying 25 pounds (11 kg) of "encumbrance". Or another words: -3 to DCV/Dex Rolls, -2" Movement, 2 END/Turn to move around. That looks awful close to the rules for 0 STR in the book.

 

He should have at least a 3 STR assuming he's 80 pound weakling.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

At 0 STR, you are expected to weigh 55 pounds (25 kg).

Assume this guy is literally "an 80 pound weakling" which means he's carrying 25 pounds (11 kg) of "encumbrance".

As I understand it, you're always assumed to be able to carry your own weight. Your strength gives you the amount you can lift *in addition* to your own wieght. Otherwise, a 100 kg normal with 10 STR would only just barely be able to stand, take a few steps, and then drop himself.

 

Although I can certainly understand ruling otherwise in the case of STR 0 or below.

[Lucius]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

"My strength is as the strength of ten, because my heart is pure."

 

 

His strength is as the strength of zero, because his player's dumb.

 

 

Actually, has anyone considered giving the player the benefit of the doubt? Instead of trying to squeeze points - which we've already seen this DOESN'T do - maybe it's just his idea of a good concept?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is threatening that my STR and CON could both drop to zero, they way I fail to take care of myself....this is funny coming from a creature that eats SPAM!

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

Otherwise, a 100 kg normal with 10 STR would only just barely be able to stand, take a few steps, and then drop himself.

 

I feel like that sometimes...

[Gemphyre]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

"My strength is as the strength of ten, because my heart is pure."

 

His strength is as the strength of zero, because his player's dumb.

 

Actually, has anyone considered giving the player the benefit of the doubt? Instead of trying to squeeze points - which we've already seen this DOESN'T do - maybe it's just his idea of a good concept?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I think that the original poster stated that the player was trying to munchkin the rules in this case.

 

 

Gemphyre

[Lucius]

Re: Strength of Zero

 

I think that the original poster stated that the player was trying to munchkin the rules in this case.

 

 

Gemphyre

 

In which case he's only munching himself - unless he's okay with no natural PD, and lower STUN and REC. Which he may be.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Riding a palindromedary under the rainbow