Hulk vs Superman

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

...And Dazzler already beat Galactus. The guy above was right about those writing the comic.

 

 

 

You had to remind me.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

As to Wonder Woman now punking Superman' date=' whatever. The Girls Alway Win rule never impressed me, and Wondy should not be written as able to take Supes in a fight where Supes isn't holding back.[/quote']

 

I bet you didn't like that one WW storyline where Circe takes over NYC, turns all the men into her beast-men, reduces Supes to a Doomsday level of intelligence, and then sics him on Wondy when she leads all the female superheroes to the rescue.

 

I liked the story, but I remember thinking, "Shouldn't Super-Neanderthal be tearing Wondy's limbs off right about now?"

[Hermit]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

As has been said before: It depends on who's writing it.

 

However, as that's no fun, let's delve further into what might happen when these two great figures clash.

 

Well, the hulk is currently not stupid, and Supes tries to reason with his foes, so I think they'd end up talking while they beat the hell out of each other. Interesting possible conversations come to mind...

 

Superman: "Hold it. You're INVADING your Earth, swearing revenge for lost loved ones, and likely to cause massive loss of life to the citizenry there?"

 

Hulk: "Mmm... yeah. Some readers are cheering for a body count."

 

Superman: "That's horrible!"

 

Hulk: Sighing, "Before you get too much on your high horse, let me ask you something. Are more than 10% of the people on YOUR Earth capable of gratitude, tolerance, kindness, and understanding?"

 

Superman: "Yes, of course! There is great goodness in them..."

 

Hulk: "Well, there you go, we're each in completely different settings."

....................

Later, Hulk and Superman slap each other around, but take a break while the pages of their respective comics cut to comercial, they have a few drinks and compare family photos

 

Superman whistles as he eyes a long leggy green woman's photo: "So that's...your cousin?"

 

Hulk nods: "Yeah, She-Hulk. Jennifer , she's not as full of rage, more of a fun loving gal. Might even get YOU to loosen up."

 

Superman: "Well, I have a wife..."

 

Hulk smirks: "Not in MY reality you don't."

 

Superman looks left, then right, half way expecting Lois to appear, "I suppose not. You think you could hook me up?"

 

Hulk ponders, "Assuming she's able after my little World War? Sure... though you owe me."

 

Superman glances over at the Cover of Brave and Bold #4 where it shows Kara hanging around Lobo of all people ((How much worse an influence can this HULK be?)Oo. He thinks, then speaks up, "I have a cousin too...now, she's 17 but in a year..." Supes reaches into his wallet and pulls out a picture.

 

Hulk whistles "Oh yeah, an 18 year old version of that would SO help me over my grief."

 

Both men look at each other, then shake hands clandestinely before returning to the fight. Now, no matter who loses, both win!

[OddHat]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

I bet you didn't like that one WW storyline where Circe takes over NYC, turns all the men into her beast-men, reduces Supes to a Doomsday level of intelligence, and then sics him on Wondy when she leads all the female superheroes to the rescue.

 

I liked the story, but I remember thinking, "Shouldn't Super-Neanderthal be tearing Wondy's limbs off right about now?"

 

Never read it, but no, doesn't sound like anything I'd find appealing. For that matter, I never read the Death of Superman arc. I stopped selling comic books about 1988, and mostly stopped reading them (save for a few TPBs) from 1992 to about 2004 or so. I've caught up some since then, again with TPBs that looked good, but my comics fu for Marvel and DC post 1990 or so is poorly developed.

 

From what I've heard and bothered to pick up, I haven't missed much.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

 

You had to remind me.

 

She never beat galactus. Even after she had absorbed Klaw, and pretty much spent most of it on a blast on him, he just looked at her. He deigned to notice her, but that is about it.

 

Don't be dissin' Dazzler, I have a complete run of her comic.

 

"Go for it!"

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

I stopped selling comic books about 1988...

 

OT, but may we know why? Lack of interest or just couldn't go through with it any more? ("No way can I sell this to some kid.")

[OddHat]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

OT' date=' but may we know why? Lack of interest or just couldn't go through with it any more? ("No way can I sell this to some kid.")[/quote']

 

Moved to go to University. I'd worked for the same guy, selling comics from 83-88. Great job for a teen comic book geek. After I stopped, my pull list got smaller fast, especially as I didn't like the trends in the big two in the early 90s. After I left the US, and other hobbies replaced comics as anything but an occasional time killer. I've tried to get back into it recently, mostly because of stuff people raved about on the boards, and I have seen some good, entertaining stories. Still don't much like what's going on in Marvel or DC.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

Moved to go to University. I'd worked for the same guy' date=' selling comics from 83-88. Great job for a teen comic book geek. After I stopped, my pull list got smaller fast, especially as I didn't like the trends in the big two in the early 90s. After I left the US, and other hobbies replaced comics as anything but an occasional time killer. I've tried to get back into it recently, mostly because of stuff people raved about on the boards, and I have seen some good, entertaining stories. Still don't much like what's going on in Marvel or DC.[/quote']

 

Amen. This is very similar to my story with comics. I avoided the medium for about eleven years with rare exceptions from the mid 80s on. I didn't work in a comics store, but I spent enough money in them. My mom still has some long boxes at the old apartment to prove it.

 

I can't get into the mainstream continuity of either of the big publishing houses anymore. I just cherry pick what I want, mostly trades and indie stuff.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

It all depends on the background goal of their fight. If Superman is forced to defend something stationary (like Metropolis in his fight vs. Doomsday) then he loses. Same thing goes if the fight is in a small area where Superman can't put his high movement speed to good use. Put the fight outdoors where Superman can disengage from the fight at any point he chooses then he wins because he controls the tempo.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

The thing that mystified me about that big Superman/Wonder Woman fight is that the tiara isn't supposed to be magic as far as I'm aware. Now her bracelets and lasso both are, so I could see Diana taking Superman down with a maneuver using either. But given that he's survived multi-megaton hydrogen bombs blowing up within arm's reach, I don't think she'd be able to get past his invulnerability on brute force alone.

 

Ditto for the Hulk, by the way. The post-Crisis Superman has been shown to have a pain threshold WAY below his actual resistance to injury, so he can be hurt or staggered by a blow orders of magnitude lower than the aforementioned nuke. But I don't see the Hulk working up enough of a head of steam to get into the actual injury-causing range in the course of a fight that would fit in a single issue.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

Oddhat said he couldn't remember a Supes moment he liked since Kingdom Come. Personally I think even that got it all wrong. ALL my recent Superman ( and most other DC guys )great moments came from TAS. Why can a bloody cartoon get it sooo right when movies and even the comics can't?.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

The thing that mystified me about that big Superman/Wonder Woman fight is that the tiara isn't supposed to be magic as far as I'm aware. Now her bracelets and lasso both are' date=' so I could see Diana taking Superman down with a maneuver using either.[/quote']

 

She used it to kill a god once. If it wasn't magic before, it is now. This is known as the Spear of Destiny effect

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

She used it to kill a god once. If it wasn't magic before' date=' it is now. This is known as the Spear of Destiny effect [/quote']

 

 

Indeed as I mentioned she sliced Ares son Deimos head off with it. Assuming Superman's magic weakness works like it does sometimes it could certainly damage him. I don't care for the tiara of death and that certainly is Perez fault but he did do lots of other very nice things with the character..

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

She used it to kill a god once. If it wasn't magic before' date=' it is now. This is known as the Spear of Destiny effect [/quote']

 

I think we are just going to have to agree that you are an unapolagetic WW fanatic and leave it at that, and I mean that in a good way.

 

I have my own weakness in this area. If it were possible, I would argue that Luke Cage can beat everyone in both the Marvel And DC universes just on cool points alone. That is the new Luke Cage, not the yellow silk shirt dude. The Marvel MAX version does not count either.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

I have a PC game called Freedom Force vs. The Third Reich which as a mode where custom made characters can face each other in different battlefields from cities to wilderness etc.. It does an excellent job of being able to simulate Superhero battles with all the new Models, FX and a.i. extensions that users have made. In those battles if the computer runs both characters the Hulk usually wins. If I play Superman I can often pull it out as Supes but if I fail to get the Hulk fast enough ( and he's really tough) He get so strong that Superman can't take the punishment anymore. Seems about right to me, of course these are my visions of the characters. Superman has to fight smart to win. If I choose a city map to fight in and have to protect civilians its really tough.

[Kirby]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

In theory, these two shouldn't have to fight, but why should that stop it?

 

Superman should win, hands down. However, the Hulk (like Wolverine) has gone down the path of MarySue-ism. I first recall this happening when the Hulk fought Wolverine. The writers "suddenly" realized that the Hulk would lose as soon as Wolverine dug his claws into the Hulk, thus they gave the Hulk regeneration. If the Hulk is now punching asteroids to smithereens and surviving planet-destroying bombs, it's just snowballed from there.

[TheRealVector]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

In theory, these two shouldn't have to fight, but why should that stop it?

 

Superman should win, hands down. However, the Hulk (like Wolverine) has gone down the path of MarySue-ism. I first recall this happening when the Hulk fought Wolverine. The writers "suddenly" realized that the Hulk would lose as soon as Wolverine dug his claws into the Hulk, thus they gave the Hulk regeneration. If the Hulk is now punching asteroids to smithereens and surviving planet-destroying bombs, it's just snowballed from there.

 

I think the Hulk vs. Wolverine battle you refer to is back in the Hulk's "Grey Hulk/Mr. Fixit" days. That version was much weaker than the traditional green Hulk. The traditional green goliath was often described as the "mightiest mortal on the planet". That just might have been Stan's usual hyperbole, but I think he meant it.

 

As I recall the Hulk and Wolverine's very first encounter, in the comic that introduced Wolverine, Logan was unable to penetrate the green Hulk's skin at all. The Hulk was drawn with simple dark lines arcross his skin to represent where Wolverine struck. Kinda like the red marks I might leave across my arm if I scratched it.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

In theory, these two shouldn't have to fight, but why should that stop it?

 

Superman should win, hands down. However, the Hulk (like Wolverine) has gone down the path of MarySue-ism. I first recall this happening when the Hulk fought Wolverine. The writers "suddenly" realized that the Hulk would lose as soon as Wolverine dug his claws into the Hulk, thus they gave the Hulk regeneration. If the Hulk is now punching asteroids to smithereens and surviving planet-destroying bombs, it's just snowballed from there.

Uh, what version of the Hulk did you read that gave you the idea that he should not be able to do these things?

 

How could you possibly think Wolverine should have given the Hulk any trouble more than a gnat to an elephant?

 

In any battle with the Hulk, Wolverine should have his brains squeezed out of his adamantium laced skull like toothpaste out of the tube and that would be the end of him. If Wolverine wasn't the most insufferable Gary Stu piece of crap character, I even like him, but I'd like him better if he actually had the power level to justify the kind of accolades he garners. He is just barely above a dark champions street-level super with his stated power set, he is NOT a Avengers level super.

 

The Hulk has always been able to regenerate, he's always been resistant to extreme heat (which is why this idea that Supes heat vision should be an instant win for him is ridiculous; blind the Hulk: sure, hurt him: hardly.) But I will admit he has gotten much, much stronger and smarter in Hulk form since his green mindless days. But that has come over the course of many years of story progression that has had clear cause, effect, and development, not retconning or writing invention.

 

TB

[Bloodstone]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

He is just barely above a dark champions street-level super with his stated power set, he is NOT a Avengers level super.

 

Let me say upfront that I don't really like Wolverine on the Avengers. I don't even like Wolverine that much in the grand scheme of things, though I certainly don't hate him like many others do.

 

That said, Wolverine brings a hell of a lot more to the table than MANY past Avengers ever did.

 

Also, I'd have to look it up, but I don't think the Hulk has always regenerated. It took a while before they actually found something that could hurt him Once they did, they added in the healing factor.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

When did the classic hulk from "The marvel age of comics" ever regenerate? I don't really remember him ever getting hurt? I remember I was quite surprised to learn that he could regenerate when I first heard it. When they first met Logan definitely could barely scratch the Hulk and a glancing blow knocked Logan out. Most characters Batman, Wolverine even both Superman and Hulk themselves are better when they are truer to their original conceptions IMO.

[McCoy]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

Let me say upfront that I don't really like Wolverine on the Avengers. I don't even like Wolverine that much in the grand scheme of things' date=' though I certainly don't hate him like many others do. [/quote']

I's not so much that I hate Wolverine, it's just that he and the Punisher were the harbingers of the Iron Age

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

If Wolverine wasn't the most insufferable Gary Stu piece of crap character, I even like him, but I'd like him better if he actually had the power level to justify the kind of accolades he garners. He is just barely above a dark champions street-level super with his stated power set, he is NOT a Avengers level super.

 

TB

 

Let me say upfront that I don't really like Wolverine on the Avengers. I don't even like Wolverine that much in the grand scheme of things, though I certainly don't hate him like many others do.

 

That said, Wolverine brings a hell of a lot more to the table than MANY past Avengers ever did.

 

OT, but... The Avengers have had a lot of 'Dark Champions' level characters over the years, haven't they? What about Captain America and Hawkeye? They were both team leaders, and neither of them were all that powerful.

[assault]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

OT' date=' but... The Avengers have had a lot of 'Dark Champions' level characters over the years, haven't they? What about Captain America and Hawkeye? They were both team leaders, and neither of them were all that powerful.[/quote']

 

Not to mention Black Widow, the Beast, Black Panther, the Falcon, the Swordsman...

 

Ant-Man and the Wasp weren't really powerhouses when they started out either, and they were founding members who helped define "Avengers level super".

 

Other relevant early Avengers include Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, from the "Cap's Kooky Quartet" period. While the Scarlet Witch has been powered up to insane levels, she was originally a pretty standard X-Man level character - just like Quicksilver and Wolverine.

 

There are lots of good reasons for not having Wolverine in the Avengers, but power level isn't one of them.

[McCoy]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

Not to mention Black Widow' date=' the Beast, Black Panther, the Falcon, the Swordsman...[/quote']

"One of these things is not like the others, One of these things just doesn't belong,"

[Kirby]

Re: Hulk vs Superman

 

Uh' date=' what version of the Hulk did you read that gave you the idea that he should not be able to do these things?[/quote']An interview with the authors of the story who decided on the spot to give the Hulk regeneration.

 

How could you possibly think Wolverine should have given the Hulk any trouble more than a gnat to an elephant?

Aside from his claws that can pierce through anything? Such as the "first swing" where they went into the chest and heart of the Hulk.

 

The Hulk has always been able to regenerate....

No, he hasn't. Maybe he's "always" been able to regenerate since you've started reading him, but it wasn't until the Hulk/Wolverine clash that he was given his regeneration.