Wyrm Ouroboros Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 So I'm creating the Wild Hunt, and I'm trying to get that whole 'Fear-Causing Howl' down. How would y'all pull this one off??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Of all the options that spring to mind, I'd probably go with Drain PRE, NND (vs deaf or Hearing Group Flash Def).. My main problem with the solution being that technically, PRE attacks can be directed against EGO or PRE -- whichever is higher. Though for more points, you can Drain EGO and PRE simultaneously... The next option would be additional PRE, only for Fear-based PRE attacks. (Probably your least expensive option, since you don't have to spend points on AOE)... Last would be Mind Control, only to cause Fear/set command. This gets a little wonky though mechanically, imo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Really big PRE Attack would solve it nicely. Say +40 PRE, Only For Fear Based PRE Attacks (-1/2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalton Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Here is how I'm doing it for a current hero. The images are used to create the Banshee and give the presense attact that extra couple dice for violent action. (it's a nasty image) Scream of the Banshee: (Total: 79 Active Cost, 36 Real Cost) Sight, Mental and Hearing Groups Images 1" radius, +/-8 to PER Rolls (44 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Instant (-1/2) (Real Cost: 22) plus +35 PRE (35 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only to make targets flee; -1 1/2) (Real Cost: 14) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalton Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear I would also think about adding a CE vs presence. That will force a roll or they will flee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Personally I would probably go with the extra PRE to cause PRE attacks route. I wouldn't go with a Drain or the like because it would make the target afraid of everything indiscriminately, which might not be what you're looking for. (E.G. WildHuntMan drains HeroMan's PRE to 0, then MinorVillain executes a wimpy PRE attack which works because HeroMan is still scared of WildHuntMan... maybe not the best mechanic there.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadodel Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear So I'm creating the Wild Hunt' date=' and I'm trying to get that whole 'Fear-Causing Howl' down. How would y'all pull this one off???[/quote'] I would consider using one howl for fear, but yet another for inspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narratio Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear I'd go for the PRE attack as Ghost-Angel suggests. A point to consider is that this is really an area effect, probably not a 1" radius. I'd treat it like an explosion with lesser effect the further away you are from it. The cry of the Banshee, while aimed at one person, was reported by others after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear I'd go for the PRE attack as Ghost-Angel suggests. A point to consider is that this is really an area effect, probably not a 1" radius. I'd treat it like an explosion with lesser effect the further away you are from it. The cry of the Banshee, while aimed at one person, was reported by others after all. There's a new AoE option in Ultimate Energy Projector "Voice Range" that would work perfectly for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear I agree...I'd add in Incantations, and or Noisy as lims to lower the cost even more....annother way might be to make part of it "Positive Rep" +4/4D6 "Wild Hunt!" a moderate to large group.....then someone who had no idea what the howls meant would not be as frightened..."Whats up with everyone?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear I agree...I'd add in Incantations' date=' and or Noisy as lims to lower the cost even more....annother way might be to make part of it "Positive Rep" +4/4D6 "Wild Hunt!" a moderate to large group.....then someone who had no idea what the howls meant would not be as frightened..."Whats up with everyone?"[/quote'] Part of the Wild Hunt is that the howls of the hounds are so primally bone chilling that you don't have to know what they are to be afraid, they're part of the manifest fear of the wild we have almost instinctually. Those in the know just run faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted October 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Part of the Wild Hunt is that the howls of the hounds are so primally bone chilling that you don't have to know what they are to be afraid, they're part of the manifest fear of the wild we have almost instinctually. Those in the know just run faster. Exactly. So what's 'Voice Range' for that AoE? Hmmm. I knew I shouldn't've used Explosion. AoE is MUCH better. Currently: Mind Control 2d6 ( Human and Animal classes of minds), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Cumulative (36 points; +1), Area Of Effect (145" Cone; +2) (85 Active Points); Set Effect (Fear/Terror; -1), No Range (-1/2), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Knocked Out (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Incantations (Howl; -1/4): 26 Real Points or Mind Control 2d6 ( Human and Animal classes of minds), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Cumulative (36 points; +1), Area Of Effect (45" Cone; +1 1/2) (85 Active Points); Set Effect (Fear/Terror; -1), No Range (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Incantations (Howl; -1/4): 28 Real Points. I have this on the hounds; my NEXT question is thus: If a set of creatures has the same Mental power (such as this), and they all have Cumulative and Personal Immunity and they all use it, how would you rule the following: Do the powers (i.e. the terror) compliment each other, each of them adding to the same cumulative total? If Hound A gets 7 points of effect, and Hound B gets 8, would you say that that was 8 or 15 points of effect? Considering that they're all in the same pack, and they all have Personal Immunity to their own Fear power, would you say that they all have Personal Immunity to each others' Fear power as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Well, I probably wouldn't have used Mind Control for this, but.... If a set of creatures has the same Mental power (such as this), and they all have Cumulative and Personal Immunity and they all use it, how would you rule the following: Do the powers (i.e. the terror) compliment each other, each of them adding to the same cumulative total? If Hound A gets 7 points of effect, and Hound B gets 8, would you say that that was 8 or 15 points of effect? 15, since it's cumulative. Considering that they're all in the same pack, and they all have Personal Immunity to their own Fear power, would you say that they all have Personal Immunity to each others' Fear power as well? Absolutely. It practically says so in the rule book. Lucius Alexander And a Persistant Palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear The problem with a PRE attack is that it might make you afraid fo the source of the howl, but it does not make you afraid... The Howl, if mythological memory serves, terrifies the hunted - they become terrified of, well, everything. That says reduced PRE to me... PRE attack is good enough for government work, but the PRE drain/supress might be truer to the source, even if more expensive and complicated to pull off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Well, I probably wouldn't have used Mind Control for this, but.... 15, since it's cumulative. I'm not sure about tyhis - if the attacks are from seperate creatures, they are cumulative with further attacks from themselves, but not with each other, absent GM permission. Absolutely. It practically says so in the rule book. Lucius Alexander And a Persistant Palindromedary Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear I'm not sure about tyhis - if the attacks are from seperate creatures' date=' they are cumulative with further attacks from themselves, but not with each other, absent GM permission.[/quote'] That's correct. If you really want them to be afraid of everything, then an appropriately advantaged Drain PRE would work better to model it, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted October 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear And yet you can't go negative on an attribute, I believe -- which means that in order to make the person terrified of everything, you're still going to need an effective 20-30 points of PRE attack. Hrm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear And yet you can't go negative on an attribute' date=' I believe -- which means that in order to make the person terrified of [i']everything[/i], you're still going to need an effective 20-30 points of PRE attack. Hrm. Oh you can Once you are negative you have to start making PRE rolls against - well - everything or run away/collapse in fear - once you are at -30 you are completely paralysed/catactonic with fear. It's cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted October 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Ahhh, okay... Howl of Fear: PRE Drain 1d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (65" Cone; +2) (40 Active Points); Incantations (Howl; -1/4): Real Cost 32. With 8 Hounds howling almost constantly in the 'forward direction', you'll have some people cowering under their beds, but anything before them would be running for their lives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Ahhh, okay... Howl of Fear: PRE Drain 1d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (65" Cone; +2) (40 Active Points); Incantations (Howl; -1/4): Real Cost 32. With 8 Hounds howling almost constantly in the 'forward direction', you'll have some people cowering under their beds, but anything before them would be running for their lives... That would do it: drains are definitely 'cumulative' This would only take 6 points of PRE defence to circumvent though, so be aware of that. Penetrating is a good way to partly avoid that pitfall. Also it might be interesting to have some sort of additional limitation, something like: Does not work (or reduced effect: 1 point max) on someone carrying Wolfsbane (or some other item) -1/2, or -1/4 if it is not well known. Then thre is a cunning way to avoid the worst of the effect - if you know the trick of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted October 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Actually, the traditional way to avoid becoming prey for the Wild Hunt was to join it and become one of the predators. Not quite sure how to model that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear That would do it: drains are definitely 'cumulative' This would only take 6 points of PRE defence to circumvent though, so be aware of that. Penetrating is a good way to partly avoid that pitfall. Also it might be interesting to have some sort of additional limitation, something like: Does not work (or reduced effect: 1 point max) on someone carrying Wolfsbane (or some other item) -1/2, or -1/4 if it is not well known. Then thre is a cunning way to avoid the worst of the effect - if you know the trick of it! There really isn't "Presence Defense" anymore. You simply buy Limited Presence (PRE; Only Vs PRE Attacks). Which merely makes it harder (or rather take longer) for the Hunt to affect you. Besides, the Defense to Drain is Power Defense To create an effect where the "defense" is Joining The Hunt add NND: Defense Is Joining The Hunt. Circumvents PCs with Power Defense from being completely unaffected. As for the Area. Try Area Of Effect: Voice Range (Ultimate Energy Projector p29-30; Character Creation Handbook p296). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Actually' date=' the traditional way to avoid becoming prey for the Wild Hunt was to join it and become one of the predators. [i']Not[/i] quite sure how to model that ... Make the whole power UBO simultaneously, and the condition of being ABLE to use the power is joining the hunt as a hound. That could work Howl of Fear: Drain PRE 1d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1: only those submitting to the will of the Huntsman can gain the power), Area Of Effect (97" Cone; +2) (50 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4) 50 Active 40 Real So, each Hound could add up to 8 more, and, once added, they have the Howl, with the associated personal immunity and the imputed (group) immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear As for the Area. Try Area Of Effect: Voice Range (Ultimate Energy Projector p29-30; Character Creation Handbook p296). Is that voice range for a normal human, or of a wolf? I believe a wolf can out-distance a human vocally (but I could be wrong). Is the area this gives effectively in the "kilometers" range of radii? What about those who are deaf and cannot hear the howl? Are they affected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Re: Howl of Fear Is that voice range for a normal human, or of a wolf? I believe a wolf can out-distance a human vocally (but I could be wrong). Is the area this gives effectively in the "kilometers" range of radii? What about those who are deaf and cannot hear the howl? Are they affected? The default is suggested to be 20" - however see The Range Of Senses in 5ER p349 for more information on the topic. The AoE: Voice Range Option involves the use of the Incantations Limitation. If you cannot hear the Incantations for whatever reason (like being deaf) it has no effect. Apply Common and Dramatic Sense Here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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