Bag of Holding

[Sundansyr]

I'm creating a low-level superheroic campaign and one of the character concepts had a portable extra-dimensional storage item (bag of holding), but I have utterly no idea how I would go about building it.

 

As the characters can just buy what they need rather than spending points for conventional goods (depending, OFC, on their resource access level), a VPP to reflect things hauled out of the bag would be more limiting for the char than enabling... if her VPP has to pay points for a pistol and Thug does not, she's penalized for a good idea.

 

Any suggestions?

[Gadodel]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

'Summon' with the appropriate limiations might water it down to a very cheap option.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Extra-Dimensional Movement; Usable As Attack; Inanimate Objects Only

plus

Stetching; 1-5"; Transdimensional; Only To Retrieve Objects in Extra-Dimensional Space

(the inches will be however many the GM feels is appropriate to reach into the space to retrieve a given item.)

 

is another build.

[Alibear]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

I would have to ask two questions.

 

What can be stuffed into the bag and what happens to something once inside?

 

What can be pulled out of the bag?

 

 

 

That's three questions, so let's pretend I said three

[Doc Samson]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Ooo...good one.

 

I would build it as Extra Dimensional Movement [the Bag Dimension] (20), x2 Mass (5)*, Useable By Others (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2)**, Area of Effect [One Hex] (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Mobile (+1)***, Gate (-1/2)****, OAF (-1), Independent (-2)*****

119 APs, 26 Real Cost (or more based on Increased Mass)

 

* Take Increased Mass (5) multiple times until you reach the maximum capicity you want the bag to be able to hold.

** To negate LOS issues.

*** See Area of Effect

**** See Teleportation

***** Lose the bag and your stuff is gone!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Well hold on, you said its a supers campaign. Typically in a supers campaign equipment costs points and that includes guns for thugs. Under the typical supers scenario a "bag of holding" is just a SFX for a Gadget Pool VPP.

 

 

If you aren't charging points for equipment, then the real net effect of a "Bag of Holding" is to allow a character to carry more than they seem to be and not suffer encumbrance penalties.

 

Limited STR with full IPE (Hide Effect of Powers) and IAF "Bag of Holding" is a way to go.

 

Bag of Holding: +15 STR, Reduced END (0 END, +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), IPE (Hide Effects Of Power +2) (60 Active Points) No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Only To Increase Carrying Capacity (-1), Only for Equipment and "Other Stuff" That Will Fit Through The Bag's Opening; (-1/2), Focus (Bag of Holding, IAF, -1/2); Real Cost: 17

 

Alternately, you can still use a VPP, but have it also be an item for which points are not paid...Something like this from a fantasy campaign (and note the use of Independent, which you may or may not want to use)::

 

Bag of Holding: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 30 base + 7 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1) (60 Active Points); Independent (-2), Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Equipment and "Other Stuff" That Will Fit Through The Bag's Opening; -1/2), OIF (-1/2), Must Keep List Of Items In Bag (Bag Can Hold 15-20 STR Worth Of Swag; -1/4)

 

 

Its generally a bad idea to mix paying points for normal gear and not paying points for normal gear in the same campaign, so if you arent making NPC's pay for their gear you shouldnt be making the PCs do it either. Resource Pools from Dark Champions are a great middle ground; you might want to check them out.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Well hold on, you said its a supers campaign. Typically in a supers campaign equipment costs points and that includes guns for thugs. Under the typical supers scenario a "bag of holding" is just a SFX for a Gadget Pool VPP.

 

 

If you aren't charging points for equipment, then the real net effect of a "Bag of Holding" is to allow a character to carry more than they seem to be and not suffer encumbrance penalties.

 

Limited STR with full IPE (Hide Effect of Powers) and IAF "Bag of Holding" is a way to go.

 

Bag of Holding: +15 STR, Reduced END (0 END, +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), IPE (Hide Effects Of Power +2) (60 Active Points) No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Only To Increase Carrying Capacity (-1), Only for Equipment and "Other Stuff" That Will Fit Through The Bag's Opening; (-1/2), Focus (Bag of Holding, IAF, -1/2); Real Cost: 17

 

Alternately, you can still use a VPP, but have it also be an item for which points are not paid...Something like this from a fantasy campaign (and note the use of Independent, which you may or may not want to use)::

 

Bag of Holding: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 30 base + 7 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1) (60 Active Points); Independent (-2), Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Equipment and "Other Stuff" That Will Fit Through The Bag's Opening; -1/2), OIF (-1/2), Must Keep List Of Items In Bag (Bag Can Hold 15-20 STR Worth Of Swag; -1/4)

 

 

Its generally a bad idea to mix paying points for normal gear and not paying points for normal gear in the same campaign, so if you arent making NPC's pay for their gear you shouldnt be making the PCs do it either. Resource Pools from Dark Champions are a great middle ground; you might want to check them out.

 

These are all brilliant but if this concept is drawn from DnD (despite being a Supers campaign), he may have more ideas for the bag than simple storage. A few questions if I may.

Will the owner be able to get into it?

Will the team be able to stuff a villain into it and close the bag (i.e. turn it off the power trapping the villain)?

Could a character with Life Support put his team in the bag and carry them safely through a dangerous environment?

If you want this type of versatility, then I think it's worth spending the points.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

These are all brilliant but if this concept is drawn from DnD (despite being a Supers campaign), he may have more ideas for the bag than simple storage. A few questions if I may.

Will the owner be able to get into it?

Will the team be able to stuff a villain into it and close the bag (i.e. turn it off the power trapping the villain)?

Could a character with Life Support put his team in the bag and carry them safely through a dangerous environment?

If you want this type of versatility, then I think it's worth spending the points.

 

Bag of Holding:

 

HOLD STUFF: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 30 base + 7 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1) (60 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Equipment and "Other Stuff" That Will Fit Through The Bag's Opening; -1/2), IAF (-1/2), Must Keep List Of Items In Bag (Bag Can Hold 15-20 STR Worth Of Swag; -1/4)

 

plus

 

XDIM SPACE: Build a Base of the appropriate size and with the appropriate "unusual location" modifiers; IAF

[Doc Samson]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Bag of Holding:

 

HOLD STUFF: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 30 base + 7 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1) (60 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Equipment and "Other Stuff" That Will Fit Through The Bag's Opening; -1/2), IAF (-1/2), Must Keep List Of Items In Bag (Bag Can Hold 15-20 STR Worth Of Swag; -1/4)

 

plus

 

XDIM SPACE: Build a Base of the appropriate size and with the appropriate "unusual location" modifiers; IAF

Ooo...nice!

[Gadodel]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Bag of Holding:

 

HOLD STUFF: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 30 base + 7 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1) (60 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Equipment and "Other Stuff" That Will Fit Through The Bag's Opening; -1/2), IAF (-1/2), Must Keep List Of Items In Bag (Bag Can Hold 15-20 STR Worth Of Swag; -1/4)

 

plus

 

XDIM SPACE: Build a Base of the appropriate size and with the appropriate "unusual location" modifiers; IAF

 

Of course you've nailed it out of the park. Nice build.

 

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

from an older thread:

Re: Bag of Holding...How Would You Do It?

 

Why not use the vehicle rules?

 

Bag of Holding

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

20 STR 10 13- Lift 400.0kg; 4d6 [2]

0 DEX -30 9- OCV: 0/DCV: 0

10 BODY 0 11-

0 SPD -10 Phases: (none)

 

Total Characteristic Cost: -44

Movement:

Cost Powers END

120 It's Just a Bag!: Shrinking (0.0314 m tall, 0.0004 kg mass, -12 PER Rolls to perceive character, +12 DCV, takes +18" KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (120 Active Points)

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 120

Total Cost: 76

 

Note that the "vehicle" itself costs 76 points but a character would only pay 15 points for it.

[Patriot]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Build it like a base

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

from an older thread:

Re: Bag of Holding...How Would You Do It?

 

 

 

Note that the "vehicle" itself costs 76 points but a character would only pay 15 points for it.

 

What if someone Dispelled the Shrinking on the Bag? Would it get really big? How about Suppress?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

What if someone Dispelled the Shrinking on the Bag? Would it get really big? How about Suppress?

 

I would say that everything inside gets tossed out.

 

It's just a human sized bag that can get folded up to a really small size (like a Hefty bag) except it can normally still be folded up when it has anything inside of it.

 

The only time this might be an issue is when enough Dispel, Suppress or just plain ol' damage is done to end the effect or destroy the bag while it is folded up and itself inside of a constrained space (like a backback). Then the contents might explode out destroying the secondary container or get crushed by it if it is strong enough.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

I would say that everything inside gets tossed out.

 

It's just a human sized bag that can get folded up to a really small size (like a Hefty bag) except it can normally still be folded up when it has anything inside of it.

 

The only time this might be an issue is when enough Dispel, Suppress or just plain ol' damage is done to end the effect or destroy the bag while it is folded up and itself inside of a constrained space (like a backback). Then the contents might explode out destroying the secondary container or get crushed by it if it is strong enough.

 

I was just joking. Inherent should probably be applied to it

[Sundansyr]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Wow! Some pretty good, and pretty complex, ideas to work with.

 

Essentially, for those that asked, it is nothing more than a portable storage space though the size of the apeture was not given. The visual effect was a garish sequined clutch purse with the nasty habit of always clashing with any outfit the character chose to wear.

Overall internal space was, hrm, 3x3x3 meters (10'x) so pretty much anything 'hand held' would fit into it.

Taking anything out requires a skill roll (as with it's clashing nature, the purse does not give up the wanted goods willingly... the character stole it from some mage or other).

 

The campaign is 250pts, with conventional equipment (for PCs & NPCs) being purchased with cash, not points, and a relatively low damage class (5d6) making for more broadly skilled, or powered, heroes.

[JmOz]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Personaly I would go with the +STR IPE

[SteveZilla]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

Extra-Dimensional Movement; Usable As Attack; Inanimate Objects Only

plus

Stetching; 1-5"; Transdimensional; Only To Retrieve Objects in Extra-Dimensional Space

(the inches will be however many the GM feels is appropriate to reach into the space to retrieve a given item.)

 

is another build.

 

At first I thought "Why would you need to actually buy the EDM, instead of just the Transdimensional Stretching?" But then I remembered the FAQ question about Stretching w/ Does Not Cross Interveining Space and getting something out of a closed space. The Stretching can grasp/hit the objext (thus attacks are possible), but the Stretching will not "pull the item though with the fist".

 

I'd imagine it's the same rule for an EDM to the Extra-Dimensional Space, which is a closed space.

 

Didn't someone else ask about a Bag of Holding build not that long ago on this board?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

So I'm the first one to suggest Transform?

 

You can Transform nothingness to something. Why not Transform something to nothingness? Recovery condition is pulling it out of the bag.

 

So, we've got this:

 

Bag of Holding: Transform 6d6 (Object to Nothingness; recovers by pulling object out of bag), Standard Effect: 18 BODY, 90 Base Points. Reduced Endurance Cost (0 END) (+1/2), 135 Active Points. Obvious Accessible Focus (-1), All Or Nothing (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Must Follow Grab (-1/4). 42 Real Points.

 

Season to taste.

 

With this, you can drop any object of up to 9 BODY in the bag; if you want to change this, remove All Or Nothing and add Partial Transform (+1/2), which brings it to 180 Active and 65 Real Points. With that, you can put any size object in the bag, though it may take some time to get larger objects in; you can also remove Standard Effect if you wish.

[Tonio]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

The Transform would work pretty well for a different SFX: a bag that "shrinks" items put into it. Items with PowDef would naturally be harder to "shrink", so would more massive items (higher BODY).

 

But for a "standard" bag of holding (a la D&D), it introduces iffy limitations... how come items with PowDef, or more massive (but not larger) items won't fit?

 

(Trivial point: the Transform couldn't be into "nothingness", since then you couldn't grab it to pull it out... but it could simply be into a "teeny tiny copy of itself", or a marble, or whatever.)

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

The Transform would work pretty well for a different SFX: a bag that "shrinks" items put into it. Items with PowDef would naturally be harder to "shrink", so would more massive items (higher BODY).

 

But for a "standard" bag of holding (a la D&D), it introduces iffy limitations... how come items with PowDef, or more massive (but not larger) items won't fit?

 

True. There's no good all around SFX for Power Defense; you can say that objects with Power Defense are especially enchanted with reality enhancement and other magicobabble. Better if you use a variant of Power Defense I've seen around that forces you to define a set of SFX it works against (either poisons and toxins or magic).

 

(Trivial point: the Transform couldn't be into "nothingness", since then you couldn't grab it to pull it out... but it could simply be into a "teeny tiny copy of itself", or a marble, or whatever.)

 

All you need to do is get the bag from someone (OAF) and initiate the SFX of pulling the object out. Nothing says the object itself has to be accessible....

 

Edit: You wouldn't even need to get the bag away from someone. I'd rule you can pull an item out with a successful Grab.

[Deathmvo]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

I wanted to say thank you in this thread also as your idea have helped me make a Storage Seal for my Naruto game.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

I'd build it as a very low-cost base, TBH. Just do it as a custom power, buy the base up to the area of the bag, make the location "another dimension", and "hard to defend" since it is on your person, and then slap Focus or whatever on it.

 

Which ends up being a custom power with an active cost of 5 for a 32" (8" by 4" base) Area Bag of Holding, before adding any modifiers to the custom power.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

So I'm the first one to suggest Transform?

 

Just what I was thinking, except instead of, "into nothing," I would make it, "into extra-dimensionally stored item, weighing nothing and taking up very little/no space." Also I think it could be a pretty small Transform (and probably Minor, the game effect basically just being that you can carry the thing easily), along the same lines as, "Instant Change." Larger items might just take longer to stuff into the bag.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Bag of Holding

 

The extra STR with IPE is a clever build, although I have always used Transform for this effect, pretty much as Chris outlined except that I only used 1-2d6 since the bags were always small so only hand-held items would fit (this precluded any discussions of putting people in there after once incident where the party wizard who could only teleport his own mass tried to stuff the rest of the party into a bag of holding so they could teleport straight to the head bad guy, bypassing the bulk of the adventure). I also had one character that could transform any hand-held item into a patch on his robe instead of putting it into a bag, and another who turned small items into tatoos on his body; same power, slightly different sfx.