Not Dead Yet

[Dust Raven]

I'm normally good at this, but maybe I'm just out of practice or this really is that complicated.

 

I want to create a monster type villain/creature thing that doesn't die immediately after killing it. Basically, after delivering whatever will be the killing blow, it will continue to function for 2 additional phases, then collapse dead. During this time, it cannot be healed, repaired or otherwise saved from death, as it's already dead, it just still moving for a bit. Also, this creature will take no STUN, but that part I've got covered .

 

I'm thinking things like extra BODY with a Trigger and a short Continuing Charge but I'm not sure if those mechanics will do what I want.

 

Any other ideas?

[Sundansyr]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Sounds like several automaton powers - takes no stun (continues until destroyed), does not bleed.

 

Since the players don't know when it's dead, because it just keeps on going, they'll still be dishing out damage, so this doesn't make a whole lot of game sense. Usually when something reaches zero body, or an automaton reaching its destroyed state, it is not in any sort of physical condition to continue fighting.

Perhaps giving it a clearly obvious 'self destruct' state when it reaches that point, where it continues to function (poorly, with considerable negatives to its abilities) but the players realize it's time to get away from the thing because it's effectively 'dead' having gone into negative body (where zero Body = Dead, not just bleeding). After two phazes it 'falls apart' (self destructs), perhaps catastrophically.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

I think the Extra body, with the trigger and continuous charge (that, obviously, never recovers) works about right, with a side effect of a Physical Limitation that it can't be healed/repaired once that kicks in.

[KA.]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Since this is a GM creation and not a PC, you can give it as many BODY points as you wish.

Bearing that in mind, you could just create a Zero point Physical Limitation that reads something like:

Dies Two Phases After Reaching Zero BODY.

It would not, of course be worth many points, since, based on damage, bleeding, etc, many things might die after reaching Zero, or especially Negative Body, but on the other hand, most things can be Healed or have their lives sustained in some way.

The reason I like a Physical Limitation for this sort of thing is that it means that, at least according to my understanding of the rules, something just "happens".

It is a good way to avoid a lot of die-rolling and circumstance checking, without going outside the rules.

 

In my mind the way this would work is that, after the creature takes enough BODY to go to Zero, it will die at the end of two Phases.

If the creature took enough damage (2X BODY) from an attack or coordinated attacks in a single Phase, it would just be destroyed outright, and not get the two phases of "death".

 

Just a suggestion,

 

KA.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

How about Duplication with a 2 phase Continuous Charge and Trigger?

 

You could also throw a Side Effect on as well to 'Kill' the original when the Trigger goes off.

 

Or instead of Duplication use Multiform.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Sounds like several automaton powers - takes no stun (continues until destroyed), does not bleed.

 

Since the players don't know when it's dead, because it just keeps on going, they'll still be dishing out damage, so this doesn't make a whole lot of game sense. Usually when something reaches zero body, or an automaton reaching its destroyed state, it is not in any sort of physical condition to continue fighting.

Perhaps giving it a clearly obvious 'self destruct' state when it reaches that point, where it continues to function (poorly, with considerable negatives to its abilities) but the players realize it's time to get away from the thing because it's effectively 'dead' having gone into negative body (where zero Body = Dead, not just bleeding). After two phazes it 'falls apart' (self destructs), perhaps catastrophically.

 

Ah, yes. To clarify, it is obvious the thing is dead and should not still be active. The ultimate idea is to freak the players out with the first few of them they fight, then their odd behavior of still moving for a few seconds after death is just a peculiar quirk they need to take into account when fighting. Ultimately it doesn't become any less effective when it dies, but it may become more effective (haven't decided if it has a build in fear of death/destruction like a truly living thing that will go away after it dies, making it more dangerous).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Just a suggestion,

 

KA.

 

Excellent suggestion. I might make it work a bit more than 0 points though. It is far more limiting to die 2 Phases after reaching 0 BODY or less than it is to have the opportunity to not die at all.

[The Monster]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Maybe Tk with a Trigger.

 

The TK is limited to moving the body about, with a non-recurring charge that lasts for just a phase or two (or as long as you want them to keep dancing). Make it Independent to help quash quibbles about a power going off after the user is killed. Then it makes no difference what they do to the body (short of annihilation or total dismemberment), it just keeps coming.

 

Or, to get really arcane, a triggered Summon: the death of the critter in game terms Summons a disembodied spirit (you could even build it as an AI) which uses TK to move the body about, but has a short lifespan - as a spirit, it might have something like a Susceptibility to the Real World and takes damage or drain every phase. That's if you want to go through all the trouble of a fully detailed build for what is basically a GM schtick.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Trigger: Aid BODY (Xd6), Trigger Activates when BODY is Reduced to 0; Side Effect: Aid only lasts (X Time) and then returns to 0.

 

Oh, and he dies horribly when it's over. Bearing in mind that 0 BODY /=/ death, which is -BODY Score, this should work fine. And it's much less confusing.

[nexus]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Two Charges of Extra Body Only to Stave off Destruction?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Maybe Tk with a Trigger.

 

 

This is probably the line I'd follow. I'd decide exactly what it was that I wanted the creature to be able to do after it died and have uncontrolled continuous power(s) that are triggered on death.

 

The body continuing to move is simply SFX of that and no extra damage to the body etc will have any effect on the powers.

 

 

Doc

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Maybe it's me -- and maybe I'm just surly and feeling argumentative -- but the whole TK thing just seems excessively complicated. I don't see how this is easier, or more reasonable, than Aid BODY, Side Effect (which I obviously consider the shortest distance between two points).

[casualplayer]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Trigger: Aid BODY (Xd6), Trigger Activates when BODY is Reduced to 0; Side Effect: Aid only lasts (X Time) and then returns to 0.

 

Oh, and he dies horribly when it's over. Bearing in mind that 0 BODY /=/ death, which is -BODY Score, this should work fine. And it's much less confusing.

 

Just what I was going to suggest, although I would have it Trigger at -BODY and maybe use Standard Effect on the Aid.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Just what I was going to suggest' date=' although I would have it Trigger at -BODY and maybe use Standard Effect on the Aid.[/quote']

 

All valid points for a more polished version, but the principle is the same. Aid teh BODY with an SE of Glarck!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

When in doubt, it's either Transform or EDM. Transform doesn't work on the wielder, so that leaves EDM, UAA, AoE, to a dimension where you won't die for another two phases.

 

The problem with the BOD Aid approaches is that the target can still lose enough BOD that, even with the Aid, he's still dead. I don't like the TK either, though - he can't use his TK if he's dead, and TK can't activate other powers.

 

What about a Summon that essentially brings a duplicate creature that lasts two phases, and causes the death of the original?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

When in doubt, it's either Transform or EDM. Transform doesn't work on the wielder, so that leaves EDM, UAA, AoE, to a dimension where you won't die for another two phases.

 

The problem with the BOD Aid approaches is that the target can still lose enough BOD that, even with the Aid, he's still dead. I don't like the TK either, though - he can't use his TK if he's dead, and TK can't activate other powers.

 

What about a Summon that essentially brings a duplicate creature that lasts two phases, and causes the death of the original?

 

The question being, if you're going to spend the points for a Summon, and it's a Handwave anyway, why not go the simplest route of a Triggered Aid worth (Xd6) that "Guarantees" you're back on your feet? And it isn't immortal for those two turns; again, we're talking "Death Throes."

 

If you're worried about it getting Bingoed, you can build it as a Compound Power with sufficient Defenses, but I don't think that's an issue. By the time he whips this thing the PCs should already be short on resources.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

I want to create a monster type villain/creature thing that doesn't die immediately after killing it. Basically' date=' after delivering whatever will be the killing blow, it will continue to function for 2 additional phases, then collapse dead. During this time, it cannot be healed, repaired or otherwise saved from death, as it's already dead, it just still moving for a bit. Also, this creature will take no STUN, but that part I've got covered .[/quote']

 

The question being' date=' if you're going to spend the points for a Summon, and it's a Handwave anyway, why not go the simplest route of a Triggered Aid worth (Xd6) that "Guarantees" you're back on your feet? And it isn't immortal for those two turns; again, we're talking "Death Throes." [/quote']

 

It's unclear from the original post (above) whether the intent is that sufficiently massive damage can destroy the creature before its two extra phases are up. The intent in this regard would make considerable difference to the build.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

When in doubt, it's either Transform or EDM. Transform doesn't work on the wielder, so that leaves EDM, UAA, AoE, to a dimension where you won't die for another two phases.

 

The problem with the BOD Aid approaches is that the target can still lose enough BOD that, even with the Aid, he's still dead. I don't like the TK either, though - he can't use his TK if he's dead, and TK can't activate other powers.

 

What about a Summon that essentially brings a duplicate creature that lasts two phases, and causes the death of the original?

 

Like you said (as did I), it depends on what the OP wanted to be accomplished in those two rounds. If it was simply conyinued attacks, then I think that the uncontrolled continuous on one or more powers works best - shouldn't matter what damage is done prior to the trigger or subsequently.

 

 

If it is supposed to be more complex and dependent on the situation then I might be tempted by a summon - though, again, you have the problem that a well timed/lucky attack would also take down the summoned creature. Matter of build I suppose.

 

 

Doc

[Dust Raven]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

It's unclear from the original post (above) whether the intent is that sufficiently massive damage can destroy the creature before its two extra phases are up. The intent in this regard would make considerable difference to the build.

 

To clarify, "sufficiently massive damage" will prevent the creature from continuing to function after death. What is sufficient will depend upon the SFX of the attack and how much damage is actually done.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

So far I like the Summon version. I can easily write that up with things like One Non-Recoverable Charge and Trigger so it goes off at the moment of death, and the SFX is that is animates the recently created corpse.

 

Another idea I've had is simply adding in some extra DEF with a clever Limitation of "Only To Prevent Death For Two Phases". Basically he continues to take damage as if he didn't have that DEF, then when "dead" he just keeps going for a bit. This would make tracking massive damage easier, because if you can kill him by doing enough damage beyond this extra DEF, he just dies.

[Killer Shrike]

Ready for this? Succor BODY on a Continuing Charge lasting however long you want them to keep kicking, on a Trigger -- When BODY Fatally Reduced.

 

Charge expires, Succor turns off, they finally fall over dead.

 

Too Dumb To Die: Succor BODY 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, ; BODY Fatally Reduced; +1/4) (62 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4); RC: 27

 

Thats +15 BODY for a TURN, then off.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

Ready for this? Succor BODY on a Continuing Charge lasting however long you want them to keep kicking, on a Trigger -- When BODY Fatally Reduced.

 

Charge expires, Succor turns off, they finally fall over dead.

 

Succor. It's Aid without the mess. Same premise, cleaner execution. You win, but I already repped j00 once today.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

You know, the simplest option is probably +X BOD, only to prevent immediate death, lasts only two phases after target would otherwise die.

 

So the creature has 15 BOD, +15 BOD as described above. It loses 16 BOD, and is now at -1 (but really 14) and bleeding at the end of each turn. It's hit a few more times, and has now taken 31 BOD, so it is now at -16 and dead, except for that +15 BOD which keeps it alive (it

's at -1 ocunting those BOD). It can keep going for 2 more phases (at which time the extra 15 BOD will vanish and it drops) or until it kapes another 29 BOD (at which point it's -30 even with the extra BOD, so it's dead).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

You know, the simplest option is probably +X BOD, only to prevent immediate death, lasts only two phases after target would otherwise die.

 

So the creature has 15 BOD, +15 BOD as described above. It loses 16 BOD, and is now at -1 (but really 14) and bleeding at the end of each turn. It's hit a few more times, and has now taken 31 BOD, so it is now at -16 and dead, except for that +15 BOD which keeps it alive (it

's at -1 ocunting those BOD). It can keep going for 2 more phases (at which time the extra 15 BOD will vanish and it drops) or until it kapes another 29 BOD (at which point it's -30 even with the extra BOD, so it's dead).

 

Sure, works too. Body is Body, wherever you get it from. You can stick Succor in a Framework (w/o needing GM permission), BODY direct is cheaper to begin w/. Really just depends on the GM's comfort level with Characteristics bought as Powers.

[Sidume]

Re: Not Dead Yet

 

On the other hand, you could just buy 8 more Body, and put limitations on it:

 

Trigger +1/4 (Death)

Only one charge (-X (Don't have my book at work))

 

This way you could justify the thing having a little bit of stun, to be able to function. Give it the number of BODY that you want it to have actions, plus whatever defense to prevent it from from being outright destroyed. I tend to go with neg BODY = Dieing, not dead, until the character is negative whatever BODY s/he started with. If you take this approach, you need to give enough BODY that your critters aren't destroyed outright, or this whole discussion is moot.

 

It's sort of like Aquaman's instant recovery when he gets hit with water.