Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

[Spence]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

Don't get scared by the size' date=' most of the threads are about 50% the same 3 people saying the same three things at each other, several times...[/quote']

 

I can't believe that....not here....on the Hero boards

 

The same 4 people maybe.......

[Vondy]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

Don't get scared by the size' date=' most of the threads are about 50% the same 3 people saying the same three things at each other, several times...[/quote']

 

There are only two people with multiple user names.

[nexus]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

I gave up on the 6e threads when I realized that there were too many people who at least seem unable (or possibly just unwilling) to separate their personal POV/opinions from objective fact. "I find this point to be very important" I don't have any problem with, whether I agree or not. "My point is objectively more important than yours" I do object to when the issues are opinion rather than fact.

 

That is a very frustrating aspect of the discussion and another ties into is is "My anecdotal evidence is far more important and certain than your anecdotal evidence"

[Vondy]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

That is a very frustrating aspect of the discussion and another ties into is is "My anecdotal evidence is far more important and certain than your anecdotal evidence"

 

In my experience, this is not the case.

[nexus]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

 

I collect superhero RPGs for conversion, so even if 6th is too different, I can use it that way.

 

So do I but you know what's weird? I can imagine converting from a disappointing 6th will be more annoying on a emotional level simply because its -this- close to not needing it.

 

If that makes any sense.

[nexus]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

In my experience' date=' this is not the case. [/quote']

 

Pardon?

[archermoo]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

That is a very frustrating aspect of the discussion and another ties into is is "My anecdotal evidence is far more important and certain than your anecdotal evidence"

 

There is that too.

[Spence]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

So do I but you know what's weird? I can imagine converting from a disappointing 6th will be more annoying on a emotional level simply because its -this- close to not needing it.

 

If that makes any sense.

 

That actually makes perfect sense.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

I still say, give it a chance. The book's not out. None of us knows which changes will be made. Despite what you say now, you could take a look at it and find that one of your deal-breakers isn't so bad after all.

 

Going from 3e to 4e, if someone had said to me that they were going to change Range Modifiers from -1/3" to -2 per doubling, and END from 1 per 5 to 1 per 10, and Disadvantages to a max per category... some of them very nearly were deal-breakers for me, until I gave them a chance. In fact I gave away the first copy of 4e I bought, because I was that willing to give up on the game.

 

And yet... here I am.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

If Steve does that one thing.. you know... it's all over.

[nexus]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

I still say, give it a chance. The book's not out. None of us knows which changes will be made. Despite what you say now, you could take a look at it and find that one of your deal-breakers isn't so bad after all.

 

Going from 3e to 4e, if someone had said to me that they were going to change Range Modifiers from -1/3" to -2 per doubling, and END from 1 per 5 to 1 per 10, and Disadvantages to a max per category... some of them very nearly were deal-breakers for me, until I gave them a chance. In fact I gave away the first copy of 4e I bought, because I was that willing to give up on the game.

 

And yet... here I am.

 

Speaking for myself, I haven't said I won't take a look at 6th edition and the tone of the thread is hypothetical. I can say with 100 percent certainty that I'll be Houseruling Comeliness back in at unless that "alternative" is essentially moving Com to some where else on the sheet...would be pretty odd.

 

Hypothetically, Steve Long could put in character classes, hit points and convert to a dice pool system. Of course, that'si very very unlikely but it's also too early to say "I'll definitely be converting."

 

 

 

As stands now, the majority of the changes don't thrill me and I don't think it's being alarmist, negative or a "Chicken Little" to express that opinion. Its' not the end of the world if I or anyone else doesn't move onto 6th as long as enough people do or come to the knew rules for DOJ to at least break even.

[assault]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

In my case the "deal breaker" thing is quite serious. My RPG buying has been gradually tapering off - I've effectively stopped buying stuff for any system other than HERO, and I'm becoming a bit more selective about HERO. In other words, unless there's some good reason for me to buy 6E products, I'm likely to stop buying RPG products of any kind!

 

I won't stop playing of course - I've got decades worth of stuff sitting in my cupboards. I also play historical wargames, though, and I'm beginning to spend more time on them than on RPGs.

 

The truth is that I would rather not buy the 6E rules at all, and just buy a 6E equivalent of Sidekick for conversion purposes. Then I could just keep buying stuff that interested me, and ignore anything that didn't.

 

And then buy 7E, when it comes out.

[Vondy]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

Pardon?

 

It was humor in the form of irony.

[Vondy]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

Speaking for myself, I haven't said I won't take a look at 6th edition and the tone of the thread is hypothetical. I can say with 100 percent certainty that I'll be Houseruling Comeliness back in at unless that "alternative" is essentially moving Com to some where else on the sheet...would be pretty odd.

 

Hypothetically, Steve Long could put in character classes, hit points and convert to a dice pool system. Of course, that'si very very unlikely but it's also too early to say "I'll definitely be converting."

 

 

 

As stands now, the majority of the changes don't thrill me and I don't think it's being alarmist, negative or a "Chicken Little" to express that opinion. Its' not the end of the world if I or anyone else doesn't move onto 6th as long as enough people do or come to the knew rules for DOJ to at least break even.

 

I don't think its a "chicken little" reaction to post an opinion. In fact, I dislike milquetoast people who don't have them. And that's what Steve started the whole 6E forum for - to get our opinions. At the same time, I think a lot of mountains in this discussion are really molehills. I think people have latched on to a lot of small to moderate issues and gone ape. Not you, per se, but overall. There's a lack of perspective in the discussion as a whole.

 

When you get down to the guts of the system, few of the proposed changes are substantive. Most of them are method more than critical mechanics. And even some of the mechanical changes aren't as dramatic as they first appear. For instance, houseruling comeliness as a stat if it goes the way of the dodo is really trival to do. The most dramatic proposed changes include the notion of decoupling figured characteristics and/or skills. And even that, while looking significant on the surface and being asbestos suit required material for discussion, really only amounts to a cosmetic transormation: it affects costs.

 

Skill rolls still function on a curve and have a base roll with a cost to increase; figured characteristics still do the same things, they just don't have a forumla attached. We already have the forumlas and suggested character points allotments so it amounts to saying do X instead of Y! I'm not sayig I want these changes, or that I wouldn't be house-ruling them, either. I probably will, but at the same time, they won't dramatically impact the implicit structure of hero or how I run my games. I have this edition. I can take the next one, look for good ideas, and run the game I want to run.

 

I still have things about 5E I don't like and houseruled to work like 4th (regeneration and damage shield come immediately to mind), and some of the cost increased and granulairity caused me to customize things that I'd never considered touching before, but it introduced some great ideas that have improved my game and caterered to my playstyle. I don't doubt 6E will follow much the same pattern. I'll cull it for ideas. Its a toolkit. I take what I want and leave what I don't.

[tomd1969]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

There are two things for me that would be deal-breakers for me when it comes to 6th edition:

 

1) If they did away with the point allocation system and went to a system wherein PCs were randomly rolled;

 

2) If they went to a class-and-level system.

 

Everything else is minor. I want to be able to create the character *I* want to play: if I want a character that shoots lightening bolts out of his arse, then I don't want the rules telling me I can't. If I want a hot-mama kick-butt martial artist who runs around in a red-white-and-blue costume, I don't want the dice and some retarded table telling me that instead I have Monstrous Darkness Control, Monstrous Radio Control, and Feeble Telekinesis (as actually happened to me once in an old FASERIP MSHRPG--I nearly threw the book across the room).

 

These are the reasons I'm a Hero fan. Once you take those two things away, it ceases to be Hero and becomes D20. Since the odds of Steve taking these two concepts out of the game are very slim (he being a fan for the same reasons as I am), the chances that I'll reach "Deal Broken" state will be similarly slim.

[DavidToomey]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

There are only two people with multiple user names.

Is one of them a pair of hot lesbians...?

 

...or is that particular poster long gone?

[Vondy]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

Is one of them a pair of hot lesbians...?

 

...or is that particular poster long gone?

 

We don't know. Fred Bittick was the infamous Kararachel, but he could be using some other user-name and it would be virtually impossible for us to find out. Dan banned both user accounts, and may have banned the IP address, too, but one can always get a new IP address and create a new sock puppet. Creepy, eh?

[Trebuchet]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

We don't know. Fred Bittick was the infamous Kararachel' date=' but he could be using some other user-name and it would be virtually impossible for us to find out. Dan banned both user accounts, and may have banned the IP address, too, but one can always get a new IP address and create a new sock puppet. Creepy, eh?[/quote']I can't help noticing that we've never seen you and Fred Bittick in the same room. Mere coincidence?

[Vondy]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

I can't help noticing that we've never seen you and Fred Bittick in the same room. Mere coincidence?

 

Well, neither of us are lesbians... so there is another striking coincidence. The evidence mounts.

[Kenn]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

I've never seen Barbara Bush and the Quaker Oats Man together either.

[Paragon]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

I'm in the ironic position of having very few things Steve's indicated as likely changes that bother me, and several I think are quite good ideas--but one of the very few (the decoupled figureds) bother me enough that I probably would be done over it. Go figure.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

Re: decoupling figureds... it's an easy thing to playtest, if you really want to see how it works. I say, give it a chance. You're in the position of saying you don't like something without having ever tried it. If you playtest it, and can go to Steve with actual playtest data saying "We've tried it and it doesn't work; here's why," I'd imagine you've probably got a much better chance of changing his mind than all of the 115+ pages on the 6e Characteristics thread.

[Paragon]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

Re: decoupling figureds... it's an easy thing to playtest' date=' if you really want to see how it works. I say, give it a chance. You're in the position of saying you don't like something without having ever tried it. If you playtest it, and can go to Steve with actual playtest data saying "We've tried it and it doesn't work; here's why," I'd imagine you've probably got a much better chance of changing his mind than all of the 115+ pages on the 6e Characteristics thread.[/quote']

 

Honestly, I don't need to playtest it; I've seen other systems that did the same, and I didn't like it there either. I dislike it on a sufficiently basic conceptual level that no execution is going to be able to make me like it. Its not got anything to do with costs, but the simple idea of making certain things independent that I don't think should be completely independent. It could create no game balance or actual game play problems and it would still bother me.

[incrdbil]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

Honestly' date=' I don't need to playtest it [/quote']

 

not to be harsh, but honestly, I can't think of any faster way to having ones input disregarded than saying this.

 

I dislike it on a sufficiently basic conceptual level that no execution is going to be able to make me like it.

 

.....except maybe that.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Do you have any "deal breakers" when it comes 6th edition?

 

Honestly' date=' I don't need to playtest it; I've seen other systems that did the same, and I didn't like it there either.[/quote']

 

Name one?

 

I dislike it on a sufficiently basic conceptual level that no execution is going to be able to make me like it. Its not got anything to do with costs, but the simple idea of making certain things independent that I don't think should be completely independent. It could create no game balance or actual game play problems and it would still bother me.

 

But everything you have to say about is based on not trying it. If you tried it, sure, you might still not like it, but then you'd have a basis from which to convince Steve. You could say, "I've tried it, and here's why it doesn't work." At the moment, you're saying "I won't like it, I know I won't, even though I haven't tried it."

 

I can't and won't speak for Steve, but if I were in his position, I'd put a lot more stock in statements from people who have tried it and found it wanting, than from a hundred yahoos on either side who haven't. (I say this as one of those yahoos, but then I'm not in the position of trying to change his mind.)