McCoy Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? I suspect I'm being misread. My comment was intended to be facetious and simply say that I hoped the core Hero gamers wouldn't leave simply because a larger portion of the gaming community saw the light and started playing Hero' date=' building up its sales. [/quote'] Nobody goes there anymore' date=' it's too crowded![/quote'] I will not stop playing Hero because it gets a bigger following. I wll if it adapts the features of d20 I find annoying. Off topic... Oddly, I have never played a d20 game and enjoyed it. The system just grates against me for some reason. I can love the setting, have a fun character and still the mechanics are like nails on a chalkboard that suck the fun out of the entire session. And I can play terrible systems and still have fun, even Palladium or Storytelling Adventure System. Maybe it's just Player Hatin' but I can't get over it. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTaylor Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Similar to what Kenn said, I write a lot of source material, I try to make money at it. That means I have thousands of pages of stats, materials, constructions, characters, and so on. Changing from previous editions was a real, but fairly minor concern; the basics stayed the same (combat value, rolls, stats, etc). If the changes become significant or major, that's going to make me have to do extensive work on all that material, which is even more likely to make me wash my hands of the whole affair. Things like deleting stats or breaking figured characteristics away from their parent stats, rolling high on skills, rolling a different number of dice, rebuilding mental powers from the ground up: that's going to be such major changes I might decide they are too much to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? If I have to re-buy books I already own to 'upgrade', I'm gone. I game for fun, so if I have to bend over backwards to make my existing materials remain useful, I'll stick with 5er... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? If I have to re-buy books I already own to 'upgrade'' date=' I'm gone. I game for fun, so if I have to bend over backwards to make my existing materials remain useful, I'll stick with 5er...[/quote']Ditto. And now that I own almost every Hero book on PDF, I don't even have to worry about the spines wearing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? If the system becomes more cumbersome and requires more work, as opposed to streamlining and cleaning it up, I will have a hard time justifying the upgrade. There is always some room for changes, but sometimes taking a concept to its extreme renders it ridiculous. If I have to model things I currently have a way of doing with minimal effort I'll be gone. One the other hand, most of steve's proposed changes have left me with a "wait and see," attitude. None of them are deal-breakers in of themselves. Its the implementation that counts. I want a toolkit I can easily model the genres I want to run with. If it provides that I'm happy. If not, not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Building up sales is good; but my experience with sudden popularity of something I already like is not good. Yes' date=' there's one thing that we all would like to see Hero emulate from d20: the sales figures. [/quote'] I'm going to conclude there is nothing that we can agree we would all like to see. I think the bottom line is no one would be unhappy with sales figures going up as long as the quality of the game (from each of our subjective viewpoints) does not go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akiva Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? This isn't a deal-breaker but it's something I wouldn't mind seeing: A limited special edition in a single volume with three colored ribbon bookmarks sewn into the binding. I'd pay premium for a super nice edition. This, however, is a deal-breaker for me: The look and feel of the book: if the fonts and formatting don't maintain the current unassailable quality of the fifth edition, I'm going to ball up my fists and throw one hell of a temper tantrum. Also, the new edition should smell as good, if not better than, the current book does now. OR ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? I'm going to conclude there is nothing that we can agree we would all like to see. I think the bottom line is no one would be unhappy with sales figures going up as long as the quality of the game (from each of our subjective viewpoints) does not go down.The last thing on Earth I want to see is Hero: The Gathering, great sales numbers or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtelson Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? The last thing on Earth I want to see is Hero: The Gathering, great sales numbers or not. Hmmm, The last thing on Earth I want see is my chidren, grand and great-grand children surrounding my bed. There are no deal breakers for me. I'm picking it up. Once I see it, I'll start considering conversion. I've just started a very long term series of Supers campaigns, so we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Hmmm' date=' The last thing on Earth I want see is my chidren, grand and great-grand children surrounding my bed. [/quote']I can think of much worse ways to go. But I have no children and never will, so all of that's something I can't aspire to. There are no deal breakers for me. I'm picking it up. Once I see it, I'll start considering conversion. I've just started a very long term series of Supers campaigns, so we'll see.While I'm growing increasingly skeptical that 6E will be a significant improvement over 5ER based on what I'm reading here, the fact remains that this is very early days in the process of creating it. I'll make my final decision when it comes out unless there is a deal breaker officially announced beforehand. Even if we don't switch to it in our campaign, it may have some good material worth back-porting into 5ER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Not so much dealbreakers but thing i would like. shapeshift rebuilt so you can change shape in a understandable manner regen reintroduced same with instant change, megascale deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Megascale is not right yet, but I think it really is needed, it needs to be tweeked, but it is something I find extremly useful (mostly for movement powers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Over Complicating Rules Fuzion-izing QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vann the Red Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? I'm just generally skeptical. I don't know that there's a single dealbreaker, but I have trouble believing that 6e could substantially improve on 5er. Steve has a huge sales pitch to make on that score. That said, I have little doubt in his ability to make that sales pitch. VtR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Decoupling figures is pretty high but could be offset by something really nice. I'm going to houserule back in COM, period. Lots of the ideas , including Steve's musing would make it harder to make the characters I like. So down to it, the dealbreakesr are if I feel it becomes less friendly to my style of character design and /or loses ease of use or flexibility which has a pretty good balance now. I just don't feel anything I use is broken. So anything more than tweaks in the core areas( characteristics for example) are going to turn me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? The deal breakers for me are: - Power issues being overly complex when they need not be. I agree with Shapeshifting and Instant Change being more about the powers instead of having to do elaborate builds. However doing Simplified Healing is one of the best options IMHO for a Champions game - The Same Ole Design. If the books are coming out in color or even staying black and white, they really need to have a more cohesive design to them. - Though not in Hero's hands entirely, a rehash of the 5e CU. Sorry for those who like it, I just don't. I like a sense of legacy and continuity in my games ... it'd be nice to see some more old faces along with the new. Even a new version of an old villain here and there. - Rules Complexity. I don't think 5e needs to be more rules intensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? - The Same Ole Design. If the books are coming out in color or even staying black and white, they really need to have a more cohesive design to them. I agree with many things you say, although I don't understand this. Layout-wise, the books are pretty cohesive. I have no trouble finding stuff and looking through the table of contents. Everything looks like a Hero Games book. - Though not in Hero's hands entirely, a rehash of the 5e CU. Sorry for those who like it, I just don't. I like a sense of legacy and continuity in my games ... it'd be nice to see some more old faces along with the new. Even a new version of an old villain here and there. This I think was forced on DOJ by the IP they bough. They just didn't have access to all of the original IP. They could have left events the same and just changed the players, but this might have seemed even more incongruous. So, yes, I agree in an ideal world they would have kept everything the same, but given the way things were, they DOJ/Hero Games did pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenn Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Not so much dealbreakers but thing i would like. shapeshift rebuilt so you can change shape in a understandable manner regen reintroduced same with instant change, megascale deleted Dude, you want 4e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? I agree with many things you say, although I don't understand this. Layout-wise, the books are pretty cohesive. I have no trouble finding stuff and looking through the table of contents. Everything looks like a Hero Games book. I'd have to agree with this. The thing I like best about the 5e books (after the actual content of the books) is the wonderful layout. Easy to use, easy to find things, well put together, and aesthetically pleasing, all in one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted March 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? I'd have to agree with this. The thing I like best about the 5e books (after the actual content of the books) is the wonderful layout. Easy to use' date=' easy to find things, well put together, and aesthetically pleasing, all in one. [/quote'] I agree as well. Layout has never been an issue with Hero books. Or maybe I'm just easy to please after White Wolf. Even a stale saltine is the tastiest food in the world to a starving man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? I suspect I'm being misread. My comment was intended to be facetious ......... Smilies man! Smilies...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fyre Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Over Complicating Rules Fuzion-izing QM Champions: New Millenium was the work of the Devil! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Champions: New Millenium was the work of the Devil! I admit it: I stole "Team Defender." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? Champions: New Millenium was the work of the Devil! I always feel sorry for C:NM The setting was not bad, if a bit on the Image Contious side, but it was introduced at the same time with Fuzion, something that was not Hero, but was intended to replace it, so C:NM gets alot of flak. I actualy would like to see all of the C:NM converted to 5th edition as a .pdf type thing and the books to be kept available as .pdf's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Re: Do you have any "deal brekers" when it comes 6th edition? d20 sells very well. Presumably' date=' you'd be OK if Hero 6e did as well, since higher sales would certainly be something one would expect Hero to aim for. [/quote'] Smilies man! Smilies...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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