Disadvantage Point Limits.

[dkellis]

Is there a particular balance reason why there's a point limit for individual categories of Disadvantages (say, no more than 50 points of Psychological Disadvantages), or is it one of those "GM discretion" things?

 

The reason I ask is that by far the majority of my time spent creating characters is looking for suitable Disadvantages in various categories. I essentially need to significantly change a "completed" (conceptually) character from imagination to stats, since I can't express all of their quirks and beliefs without going over the limit.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

For starters, it's to avoid freakshow characters with 150 points worth of Psychological Limitations, who quake in terror at kittens and light breezes, who hate everyone and everything to varying degrees, and who are both Overconfident and Code vs. Killing.

 

That said, you need to look at The Master List of Limitations. Despite its name, it is in fact a master list of Disadvantages. Psychological, Physical, and Social Limitations of every description.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

Beyond what Chris said... there's no reason you can't take more Disad's than you get points for if it's in character.

 

And Disad's are definitely a GMs Discretion thing in my book.

[dkellis]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

For starters, it's to avoid freakshow characters with 150 points worth of Psychological Limitations, who quake in terror at kittens and light breezes, who hate everyone and everything to varying degrees, and who are both Overconfident and Code vs. Killing.

 

That said, you need to look at The Master List of Limitations. Despite its name, it is in fact a master list of Disadvantages. Psychological, Physical, and Social Limitations of every description.

 

I already bookmarked that list some time back, and every time I create a new character, I wait a long time for it to load, and then I read every single entry on it.

 

And often, I still can't find the Disadvantages that aren't already in a category which I filled up earlier.

 

The problem often is that for my characters, physically they're fine/normal/human (which rules out many of the Physical Disadvantages), socially they're not obviously ostracized (which rules out many of the Social Disadvantages), and just about the only thing that really brings them out as people in my mind are their beliefs and quirks, the vast majority of which are Psychological.

 

In other words, if I do want to make a character who trembles at kittens and light breezes and appear to have contradictory beliefs (the majority of real people have contradictory beliefs, if you look at it closely), then I don't see why that's considered "freakshow". I mean, I have a character who is both Bad-Tempered but with a Code vs Killing, since she doesn't have a Code vs Punching Their Lights Out.

 

Incidentally, sometimes the classifications on that list don't make a lot of sense. For example, a Poor Memory is a Physical Limitation, and listed under such, but Limited Intellect and Lack of Spatial Sense are under the Physical Limitation categories for searching, but actually classified as Psychological.

 

Beyond what Chris said... there's no reason you can't take more Disad's than you get points for if it's in character.

 

And Disad's are definitely a GMs Discretion thing in my book.

 

What I'm poking at is the possibility of a character having 150 points in Psychological Limitations because it's all in character, but only actually getting points for 50 of them.

 

I mean, I'll still take those 150 points anyway if it came down to it, but I don't want to do so and then still have to hunt down other categories just to make up the slack. In that case, I may as well stick to making 200+50 point characters instead of 200+150 point ones, and then they get trounced by their NPC 200+150 opponents.

[Alibear]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

In the future I'm giving players a set amount of points for their characaters to spend and letting them take whatever disads they see fit to take. They won't get any extra points for taking them. I'll award them a Hero point or extra xp if I use them in play. I'll also hand out whatever disads I think the character should have.

 

Not exactly canon I know but I'm gonna give it a go.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

In the future I'm giving players a set amount of points for their characaters to spend and letting them take whatever disads they see fit to take. They won't get any extra points for taking them. I'll award them a Hero point or extra xp if I use them in play. I'll also hand out whatever disads I think the character should have.

 

Not exactly canon I know but I'm gonna give it a go.

 

I think the whole system should move that way.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

And often' date=' I [i']still[/i] can't find the Disadvantages that aren't already in a category which I filled up earlier.

 

Secret ID is almost a gimme-disad for Superheroes.

 

Reputations, Rivalries, post a character history I'm sure we can pull a Disad or 4 out of it that will make the character interesting, and the story interesting.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

In the future I'm giving players a set amount of points for their characaters to spend and letting them take whatever disads they see fit to take. They won't get any extra points for taking them. I'll award them a Hero point or extra xp if I use them in play. I'll also hand out whatever disads I think the character should have.

 

Not exactly canon I know but I'm gonna give it a go.

 

I think the whole system should move that way.

And I agree as well. It seems like a more "organic" method of character creation and development. That way, if you buy a Hunted and through the course of five to ten episodes eliminate said Hunted, there is no reason to "hack" in something of equal value.

[Alibear]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

Exactly and if you do something unbelievably dumb, or something earth-shattering happens and the GM fancies giving you an extra disad he'll feel free to do so.

[Tonio]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

The problem often is that for my characters' date=' physically they're fine/normal/human (which rules out many of the Physical Disadvantages), socially they're not obviously ostracized (which rules out many of the Social Disadvantages), and just about the only thing that really brings them out as [i']people[/i] in my mind are their beliefs and quirks, the vast majority of which are Psychological.

 

In other words, if I do want to make a character who trembles at kittens and light breezes and appear to have contradictory beliefs (the majority of real people have contradictory beliefs, if you look at it closely), then I don't see why that's considered "freakshow". I mean, I have a character who is both Bad-Tempered but with a Code vs Killing, since she doesn't have a Code vs Punching Their Lights Out.

 

Incidentally, sometimes the classifications on that list don't make a lot of sense. For example, a Poor Memory is a Physical Limitation, and listed under such, but Limited Intellect and Lack of Spatial Sense are under the Physical Limitation categories for searching, but actually classified as Psychological.

 

As with everything in HERO, you've got to look beyond (or even ignore) the names of things. Just like an Energy Blast might have nothing to do with energy, a Physical Disadvantage might not be physical. Physical Disadvantages represent things your character can't do, while Psychological Disadvantages represent things your character won't do. A Code vs. Killing could conceivably be written up as a Physical Disadvantage. It'd be a stretch, but consider a robot operating under something similar to Asimov's First Rule of Robotics. It's no longer a question of whether they'll do their best not to kill, since they're vehemently opposed to it, but rather that try as they might, they'll be unable to willingly kill a human. Ok, so it's a stretch, and most GMs would probably not allow it... but that's the idea. For example, Limited Intellect isn't something a character can overcome with an EGO roll. It's not something the character refuses to do, or insists on doing. Hence, it's not a Psychological Limitation. It's still categorized as Psychological since it deals with the character's mind, but that's more of a SFX/Roleplay thing; it doesn't affect the mechanics of the Disadvantage, I think.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

Is there a particular balance reason why there's a point limit for individual categories of Disadvantages (say' date=' no more than 50 points of Psychological Disadvantages), or is it one of those "GM discretion" things?[/quote']

 

EVERYTHING is a GM discretion sort of thing. To me, this is to encourage some variety in disadvantages. Even a standard Super has 150 points of disadvantages - at 50 points per category, he need only have three categories.

 

The reason I ask is that by far the majority of my time spent creating characters is looking for suitable Disadvantages in various categories. I essentially need to significantly change a "completed" (conceptually) character from imagination to stats' date=' since I can't express [i']all[/i] of their quirks and beliefs without going over the limit.

 

I often have more disad's than required (either in a specific category or in total) because that's the character. This does have something of a mechanical benefit as well. If I decide the character grows and changes, so a disad should be reduced or eliminated, well, he had 65 points of psych limits, and dropping 5 points still leaves 60. He only gets 50 points anyway, so there's no need to pay points to buy that disad down.

 

I already bookmarked that list some time back' date=' and every time I create a new character, I wait a long time for it to load, and then I read [i']every single entry[/i] on it.

 

And often, I still can't find the Disadvantages that aren't already in a category which I filled up earlier.

 

I can't comment on "master lists". I make my character, set out his issues and then determine which disadvantages fit. I don't want someone else's list of disadvantages they might think of for characters.

 

The problem often is that for my characters' date=' physically they're fine/normal/human (which rules out many of the Physical Disadvantages)[/quote']

 

Really? Being colourblind, having limited depth perception or being illiterate means you're no longer "fine/normal/human"? I'm not saying every character has a physical limitation or two, but having one doesn't mark you as a freak.

 

socially they're not obviously ostracized (which rules out many of the Social Disadvantages)

 

Again, there's a difference between "obviously ostracized" and being, perhaps, subject to orders, or a member of an organization with certain expectations.

 

Both of those comments sound like "big kill" syndrome to me. I don't like characters whose 150 points of disad's come from six items averaging 25 points. More commonly, it's the more minor, 5 and 10 point, disadvantages that assist in defining characters.

 

and just about the only thing that really brings them out as people in my mind are their beliefs and quirks, the vast majority of which are Psychological.

 

In other words, if I do want to make a character who trembles at kittens and light breezes and appear to have contradictory beliefs (the majority of real people have contradictory beliefs, if you look at it closely), then I don't see why that's considered "freakshow". I mean, I have a character who is both Bad-Tempered but with a Code vs Killing, since she doesn't have a Code vs Punching Their Lights Out.

 

And that doesn't exceed 50 points of psych lim's does it?

 

Maybe such a character is Enraged by a casual disregard for human life - that combines having a bad temper and a code vs killing into a different disad category. Perhaps his Bad Temper has offended someone, resulting in a Watched, Hunted or Rivalry. Maybe it results in a Social Limitation - a minor criminal record for assault - or a Reputation as the results of his bad temper have been publicized. Perhaps that results in his being Watched by local law enforcement, or having penalties on interaction skills not based on fear. Maybe he has penalties to interaction skills based on fear because his refusal to kill is well-known.

 

Incidentally' date=' sometimes the classifications on that list don't make a lot of sense. For example, a Poor Memory is a Physical Limitation, and listed under such, but Limited Intellect and Lack of Spatial Sense are under the Physical Limitation categories for [i']searching[/i], but actually classified as Psychological.

 

Guess why I don't use master lists. All of those are physical in my books. No amount of focus and making EGO rolls will make the character smarter, improve his memory or enhance his senses, so it's a Physical Limitation.

 

What I'm poking at is the possibility of a character having 150 points in Psychological Limitations because it's all in character' date=' but only actually [i']getting[/i] points for 50 of them.

 

Such a character strikes me as being one of the following:

 

- overcompensated for quirks

- a basket case

- too many overlapping psychs.

 

I'm also a big fan of variant and/or mystery disad's. My character might be Hunted by someone and not know it. Hey, GM, throw in a 20 point Hunted that fits your plans for the game - I don't need to know it. Most of our games have vastly more unknown than known Hunteds as we start out.

 

Perhaps my character is a Womanizer. There's an easy Psych. But it could also encompass or morph into:

 

- DNPC: he always has a girl, she just changes from adventure to adventure - nice way for the GM to tie the character into the scenario.

 

- Phys Lim: pretty ladies get +2 on interaction skill rolls playing into his womanizing.

 

- Hunted: angry husband/ex-boyfriend; jilted lover; GM can decide and vary over time

 

- Vulnerability: non-fear based PRE attacks from pretty ladies

 

None of these are going to score 20 - 30 points of disad's individually, but they add to the character and they're all over the map as far as categories go.

[boomer]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

I was always told by GM's that Disadvantages that aren't are considered "character flaws". You don't always have to write things down as disads for your character to have them/be that way. Write down the major ones to satisfy the point totals you need, but then the minor ones can become "personality traits" of the character. We all now Code v. Killing.....that's a broad category.....you can further define it as "won't even kill a fly or step on a bug"......wow okay, now we may have some interesting Role Playing situations going on. It's still the psych lim: Code v. Killing but you've defined the personality/character trait of why/how extreme.

[dkellis]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

EVERYTHING is a GM discretion sort of thing. To me' date=' this is to encourage some variety in disadvantages. Even a standard Super has 150 points of disadvantages - at 50 points per category, he need only have three categories.[/quote']

 

Which is mostly the problem: I can't find 50 points in three categories, not without drastically altering the character concept.

 

I often have more disad's than required (either in a specific category or in total) because that's the character. This does have something of a mechanical benefit as well. If I decide the character grows and changes, so a disad should be reduced or eliminated, well, he had 65 points of psych limits, and dropping 5 points still leaves 60. He only gets 50 points anyway, so there's no need to pay points to buy that disad down.

 

Like I said, I don't mind if I can do that, but I just don't want to have to do extra work to get the Disadvantages in other categories.

 

Really? Being colourblind, having limited depth perception or being illiterate means you're no longer "fine/normal/human"? I'm not saying every character has a physical limitation or two, but having one doesn't mark you as a freak.

 

Illiteracy in a mostly-literate campaign world is not normal; being colourblind or having limited depth perception means that one's eyes are not fine. I never said that having a Physical Limitation meant that the character is a freak.

 

As for the "human" bit, that was in reference to the entries in the Master List which go something like "needs to go to a repair shop to heal Body damage", "cannot cross running water", so on and so forth.

 

 

 

 

Again, there's a difference between "obviously ostracized" and being, perhaps, subject to orders, or a member of an organization with certain expectations.

 

Both of those comments sound like "big kill" syndrome to me. I don't like characters whose 150 points of disad's come from six items averaging 25 points. More commonly, it's the more minor, 5 and 10 point, disadvantages that assist in defining characters.

 

Again, I never said that I took only the big 25-pointers. Looking at one of my characters, not one of them has a Disadvantage of 25 points; the highest, on all of them, is Code vs Killing at 20 points. Most of the Disadvantages are 10 to 15 points, and that's because 5-pointers on the Master List are rare.

 

I could come up with my own 5-point Disadvantages, but since I just learned the HERO System two weeks ago, and I have no GM to ask, it's not like I can balance it all myself.

 

And that doesn't exceed 50 points of psych lim's does it?

 

30 points, actually.

 

Maybe such a character is Enraged by a casual disregard for human life - that combines having a bad temper and a code vs killing into a different disad category. Perhaps his Bad Temper has offended someone, resulting in a Watched, Hunted or Rivalry. Maybe it results in a Social Limitation - a minor criminal record for assault - or a Reputation as the results of his bad temper have been publicized. Perhaps that results in his being Watched by local law enforcement, or having penalties on interaction skills not based on fear. Maybe he has penalties to interaction skills based on fear because his refusal to kill is well-known.

 

Actually, that character is irritated by incompetence (another Psychological Disadvantage, 10 points), and she has a Rivalry with another character already based on that Bad-Temperedness. She's already being Watched by one group, and Hunted (Capture) by another.

 

Having her be Watched by local law enforcement or having a history of assault would change her character concept tremendously.

 

Which ties into my basic problem: I stat a character in the HERO System only after I come up with their concept fully-formed in my head. Changing that is not something I'd do lightly; I could if I really had to, but "because of a point limit" is annoyingly arbitrary. How much damage she can do with an Energy Blast, what extra adders that Energy Blast has, or how fast she can move to the meter, those are all numbers, which don't take away from her ability to do an Energy Blast in the first place. But how she thinks, how she acts, what her beliefs are, those are part of who she is in the character concept; I'd rather not alter that with new Disadvantages out of the blue.

 

Now, I understand that, as mentioned countless times in the rulebook, everything is GM discretion. However, since it is far more likely that I'll be that GM after rigorously training myself on the rules, I have to ask questions like these.

 

Which, to restate: I'd like to know if there are any blatant, overpowering balance reasons why there is a Disadvantage Point limit. At a glance, it seems like having 150 points of Psychological Limitations is pretty much just as disadvantageous to the character as 150 points of Physical Limitations or 50-50-50 of Psych/Phys/Soc, but again, I just learned the HERO System a couple of weeks ago.

[Tonio]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

I can't comment on "master lists". I make my character' date=' set out his issues and then determine which disadvantages fit. I don't want someone else's list of disadvantages they might think of for characters.[/quote']

 

The Master List is useful for when you think "my character is color blind, how do I write that up?". I don't like using it as a shopping list, hehe.

 

Really? Being colourblind' date=' having limited depth perception or being illiterate means you're no longer "fine/normal/human"? I'm not saying every character has a physical limitation or two, but having one doesn't mark you as a freak.[/quote']

 

True, but the concept might call for a near-perfect human specimen. Some people really enjoy playing such types, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Maybe such a character is Enraged by a casual disregard for human life - that combines having a bad temper and a code vs killing into a different disad category. Perhaps his Bad Temper has offended someone' date=' resulting in a Watched, Hunted or Rivalry. Maybe it results in a Social Limitation - a minor criminal record for assault - or a Reputation as the results of his bad temper have been publicized. Perhaps that results in his being Watched by local law enforcement, or having penalties on interaction skills not based on fear. Maybe he has penalties to interaction skills based on fear because his refusal to kill is well-known.[/quote']

 

Nice, very nice! =)

 

Guess why I don't use master lists. All of those are physical in my books. No amount of focus and making EGO rolls will make the character smarter' date=' improve his memory or enhance his senses, so it's a Physical Limitation.[/quote']

 

They're all under "Physical Limitation". The Master List adds a "Type" to classify them. It makes sense to classify Limited Intellect, Poor Memory, and Lack of Spatial Sense as "Psychological" (not as in the "Psychological Limitation" Disadvantage), since they're all psychological flaws.

 

Perhaps my character is a Womanizer. There's an easy Psych. But it could also encompass or morph into:

 

- DNPC: he always has a girl, she just changes from adventure to adventure - nice way for the GM to tie the character into the scenario.

 

- Phys Lim: pretty ladies get +2 on interaction skill rolls playing into his womanizing.

 

- Hunted: angry husband/ex-boyfriend; jilted lover; GM can decide and vary over time

 

- Vulnerability: non-fear based PRE attacks from pretty ladies

 

None of these are going to score 20 - 30 points of disad's individually, but they add to the character and they're all over the map as far as categories go.

 

Excellent examples, again!

[boomer]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

Which is mostly the problem: I can't find 50 points in three categories, not without drastically altering the character concept.

 

 

 

Like I said, I don't mind if I can do that, but I just don't want to have to do extra work to get the Disadvantages in other categories.

 

 

 

Illiteracy in a mostly-literate campaign world is not normal; being colourblind or having limited depth perception means that one's eyes are not fine. I never said that having a Physical Limitation meant that the character is a freak.

 

As for the "human" bit, that was in reference to the entries in the Master List which go something like "needs to go to a repair shop to heal Body damage", "cannot cross running water", so on and so forth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, I never said that I took only the big 25-pointers. Looking at one of my characters, not one of them has a Disadvantage of 25 points; the highest, on all of them, is Code vs Killing at 20 points. Most of the Disadvantages are 10 to 15 points, and that's because 5-pointers on the Master List are rare.

 

I could come up with my own 5-point Disadvantages, but since I just learned the HERO System two weeks ago, and I have no GM to ask, it's not like I can balance it all myself.

 

 

 

30 points, actually.

 

 

 

Actually, that character is irritated by incompetence (another Psychological Disadvantage, 10 points), and she has a Rivalry with another character already based on that Bad-Temperedness. She's already being Watched by one group, and Hunted (Capture) by another.

 

Having her be Watched by local law enforcement or having a history of assault would change her character concept tremendously.

 

Which ties into my basic problem: I stat a character in the HERO System only after I come up with their concept fully-formed in my head. Changing that is not something I'd do lightly; I could if I really had to, but "because of a point limit" is annoyingly arbitrary. How much damage she can do with an Energy Blast, what extra adders that Energy Blast has, or how fast she can move to the meter, those are all numbers, which don't take away from her ability to do an Energy Blast in the first place. But how she thinks, how she acts, what her beliefs are, those are part of who she is in the character concept; I'd rather not alter that with new Disadvantages out of the blue.

 

Now, I understand that, as mentioned countless times in the rulebook, everything is GM discretion. However, since it is far more likely that I'll be that GM after rigorously training myself on the rules, I have to ask questions like these.

 

Which, to restate: I'd like to know if there are any blatant, overpowering balance reasons why there is a Disadvantage Point limit. At a glance, it seems like having 150 points of Psychological Limitations is pretty much just as disadvantageous to the character as 150 points of Physical Limitations or 50-50-50 of Psych/Phys/Soc, but again, I just learned the HERO System a couple of weeks ago.

 

In a nutshell; Disads give you extra points to build all those nifty powers, etc above and beyond the initial points that you are alloted to do so. That's why a cap on points from disads is a good thing. I've seen characters that have a billion disads and none of them are played......the GM quickly told that person to do a re-write or the character was going to meet a horrible doom. As long as you aren't going for the extra points (and you've said that no you aren't) then fill up that sheet with disads...........if it helps you define that character concept down to the detail, then go for it. Just don't get the extra points from it. I'd put their point worth next to them in parens or with an asterix or something (hey you never know when you may lose a disad or want to buy one off.....) just because.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

Which is mostly the problem: I can't find 50 points in three categories' date=' not without drastically altering the character concept.[/quote']

 

Fortunately, there are at least nine or ten to choose from.

 

For a superhero, as Ghost Angel said, Secret ID is almost a gimme. In fact, if you're a superhero you can easily swing a few gimmes:

 

* DNPC (an Aunt May or a Lois Lane, or even Generic Girlfriend of the Week)

* Secret ID

* Code vs. Killing

* Overconfident

* Reputation

* Hunted (archenemy)

* Watched (by the government)

* Susceptibility (to your weakness)

* Vulnerability (to attacks based on your weakness)

 

Many of those may not apply, but between those nine, you should be able to pull out 100 points easily.

 

Which, to restate: I'd like to know if there are any blatant, overpowering balance reasons why there is a Disadvantage Point limit. At a glance, it seems like having 150 points of Psychological Limitations is pretty much just as disadvantageous to the character as 150 points of Physical Limitations or 50-50-50 of Psych/Phys/Soc, but again, I just learned the HERO System a couple of weeks ago.

 

It's really to force you to make more well rounded characters. Going back to the comics, or even most heroic fiction, you don't see heroic characters who are bundles of issues. There are some GMs who house rule no limits on Psychological Limitations, but even so I've almost never seen one character with more than about 60-70 points worth, and that's pushing it hard.

 

The other thing is, 150 points in one Disadvantage is going to end up not being healthy. 150 points in Psych Limits means the GM is going to either lead your character around on a leash, or dock you XP. 150 points on DNPCs -- what are you, a kindergarten? 150 points in Physical Limitations, let's not even go there; I'm not sure you can even get that many and remain a playable character. (I'm reminded of the old joke; Physical Limitation: Missing Hands, one finger at a time...) 150 points in Hunteds -- are you taking Hunted: US Army, one soldier at a time? Plus, with that many you're going to be spending almost all of your time either running from Hunteds, or else unconscious or captured.

 

So yeah, I'd call that a good game balance reason, or at least extremely not-fun.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

Keep in mind that many GMs jigger the points you get from disads. I've seen a lot of people do 250 base + 100 disads (or 100 base + 50 disads for Heroic characters). It's often easier to come up with 100 points of disads than 150.

[Daemon]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

I think Code vs Killing is interesting as a Social Disadvantage. =)

[Kenn]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

On a purely pracital level, during my 20 years of gamemastering, I've found that 150 pts. worth of disadvangtages is near the upper end of what a character should have. I tell my players up front that the number of points they should get from disads. should be between 100 and 150 with 120-130 being the typical range. Disads. coming from scrounging for points, rather than concept, ususally hurt the concept.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

I think Code vs Killing is interesting as a Social Disadvantage. =)

 

I think even more interesting, No Code Vs. Killing as a Social Limitation. Means you lack the "everyman" Code vs. Killing many GMs enforce.

[Vondy]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

I audit all aspects of a character for plausibility and playability - including disadvantages.

 

If the character makes sense and looks like it will add to the game, its in.

 

If not, it will have to be edited (fairly common) or will be rejected (extremely rare).

 

Its the overall build that counts.

[Silbeg]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

Which is mostly the problem: I can't find 50 points in three categories, not without drastically altering the character concept.

 

Again, I never said that I took only the big 25-pointers. Looking at one of my characters, not one of them has a Disadvantage of 25 points; the highest, on all of them, is Code vs Killing at 20 points. Most of the Disadvantages are 10 to 15 points, and that's because 5-pointers on the Master List are rare.

 

[sic]

I could come up with my own 5-point Disadvantages, but since I just learned the HERO System two weeks ago, and I have no GM to ask, it's not like I can balance it all myself.

 

Actually, that character is irritated by incompetence (another Psychological Disadvantage, 10 points), and she has a Rivalry with another character already based on that Bad-Temperedness. She's already being Watched by one group, and Hunted (Capture) by another.

 

Having her be Watched by local law enforcement or having a history of assault would change her character concept tremendously.

 

But what about a Social Limitation of Bad Tempered and/or a reputation of same. In this case, she would be seen as as being bad-tempered, as it has been publicized/word of mouth, etc.

 

I do like the suggestion of an enraged, as this would really show how bad tempered she is.

 

And Hunted by villains she has encountered in her past is always a good thing. If you cannot come up with some on your own, you should talk to your GM to "find" one or two. In my game I allow players to take "Mystery Hunted" - just assign a point value, and I will determine what/who the hunted actually is. A "Mystery Disadvantage" is also possible (and some of the "Mystery Hunted"s may be that as well.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

The game mechanic's reason why you can't get credit for 150 points of Psychological Disadvantages is that the same mechanic gets you around them. Or at least many/most of them.

 

If you buy 150 points of Psychological Disadvantages, all at the level that an EGO roll allows you to overcome them and then buy a high EGO roll, then you've essentially got 150 points of non-limiting disadvantages.

 

Granted, there is a meta-rule that states that a limitation that doesn't limit isn't worth any points, and by extension a disadvantage that doesn't limit the PC isn't worth points either. The problem with relying on that is that the fact that a disadvantage isn't limiting isn't always obvious until it's far too late.

 

For example, you could take a character with X2 vulnerability to STUN on NNDs. This, on the surface seems like an entirely valid disadvantage. Until you actually parse the character sheet and discover that the character has the defense to every NND published and then some...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

Which is mostly the problem: I can't find 50 points in three categories' date=' not without drastically altering the character concept.[/quote']

 

Then don't.

 

My current Champions character has the following:

25 Points in DNPCs (one 20 pnt, one 5 pnt)

10 Points in Distinctive Features (two 5 pnt ones)

55 Points in Psychological Limitations (there are 4 of them, we're playing loose with the point limits)

15 Points in Social Limitations (just one)

35 Points in Hunteds (two of them)

10 Mystery Points (I wanted a Disad that tied my character directly to the game world and the start of the game allowed for a kind of Unknown Past to eventually come into play)

 

 

This is Hero, mix and match. and little from here. A little from there.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Disadvantage Point Limits.

 

It seems to me that of all the Disad categories, Psych Lim is the "broadest" - it covers the most ground and comes in a very wide variety of "subtypes".

 

As a house rule, I often increase the limit on the number of disads in that one category, to 100 max points - provided no more than 50 (or perhaps less) points come from any one sub-category of Psych Lims. The sub-categories are pretty much as ennumerated in the book (IDHMBIFOM), something like:

 

Fears and Hatreds - includes phobias, aversions, prejudices, etc., anything that causes the character to panic or dispair or whimper.

 

Codes and Restrictions - standards of behavior like Code vs Killing, Vow of Poverty, religious restictions, duties and obligations*

 

Quirks and Personality Flaws - obsessions, over/underconfidence, nerdiness, arrogance, lack of sense of humor, lack of ability to be serious, etc.

 

* This assumes that the beliefs/values are fully ingrained in the character's phyche. If it's a restriction placed on him by some organization or religion that he doesn't believe in personally, then it may be a Social Lim, or a Watched, or no disad at all.

 

After all, these three categories have fairly little to do with each other.