Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

[Gnaskar]

You have done the superhero thing, foiled the villains, saved the damsels, and escaped the death traps. You have fought the good fight, stopping VIPER, ARGENT, Dr Destroyer, COIL, Mechanon, Firewing and many others. You have stood beside the Champions, UNTIL, PRIMUS, and the other heroes of our time. Now try playing the other side. See if you can succeed where many others have failed. See if you can put the world at YOUR feet!

 

OF:TWVS is a Champions (Hero System Superhero) campaign with a twist. Instead of playing the heroes, the players are villains with their own schemes and plans. Fate (and the GM) soon forces them together, and a plan for world conquest is born.

 

 

 

Online PbP Campaign on http://rpol.net/ run by me and a friend. Join in or ask questions.

[Psybolt]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Interesting. I ran a villains campaign once, but the PCs had trouble co-existing. Created a lot of tension between them. Playing villains in a group is always tough... why the Sinister Six can never beat Spidey. They wind up battling each other.

[Vulcan]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

That's why nothing drastic ever seems to happenin WOD LARP. Everyone is too busy backstabbing their buddies for political influence.

 

Played it once and walked away. I prefer cooperative roleplaying.

 

As for the original post: How do you plan to keep it from devolving into a backstabbing nightmare? I've always wanted to try a villian game, but I worry that villains, being villains, will inspire my players into an uncooperative mode that they generally don't indulge in.

[assault]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

I think the players, and their characters, would have to be very much on the same page, or people would become frustrated. That, in turn, would result in backstabbing.

 

Then there is the question of The Master Plan. For these to work, the players would usually need to know a lot about how your world operates. This would be true even if they knew that they were going to be thwarted! After all, if they have successfully defeated Superman, it's not much fun for them to be taken down by the US Marines.

 

Furthermore, there is the issue of McGuffins. Unless the PCs are always going to have to build their own Death Rays and Orbital Mind Control Lasers, they will need the occasional Magic Gizmo of Power. These need to be fed to them in a plausible manner, even if they have to go out and look for them.

 

Either that, or they will have to content themselves with robbing banks...

[Vulcan]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

I had an evil thought...

 

If I ever played in a villian game, we'd register with a major political party and make a run for the presidency.

 

It'd be a lot like Star Wars episode 1-3. The team of villians manufactures crisis after crisis to stampede the masses into handing us the reigns of powers.

 

Even better, we'd find ourselves some moron who can at least act presidential and run him behind the scenes. Or maybe if I play a mentalist; he could be my puppet...

[bubba smith]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

:bmk:you ARE evil vulcan[ no offense]

i think i know the perfect bodyguard for you head villian

from NINJA HERO dwight mcarthy aka DR. PAIN

[Gnaskar]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

How do you plan to keep it from devolving into a backstabbing nightmare? I've always wanted to try a villian game, but I worry that villains, being villains, will inspire my players into an uncooperative mode that they generally don't indulge in.

 

By careful choice of characters, and making sure the players understand their in this together. As well as a starting scenario designed to make them cooperate. And the option of a treaty made in the beginning deciding how they'll divide the world in the end. There'll still be some backstabbing, but not a lot.

 

Then there is the question of The Master Plan.

 

This is why I've stuck as close to Champions cannon as I can, making it easier to understand for the players. And the best way to find out how the world reacts to a threat, is to threaten the world (Like VIPERs many tests).

 

Furthermore' date=' there is the issue of McGuffins. [/quote']

 

Example: VIPER threatens to blow up Washington DC with an orbital laser. Players find said laser (because they have an orbital base, and have stolen VIPER stealth tech for it so they know how it works). Players decide to attack and steal laser. Yay, new laser!

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

For that added twist, include an undercover hero in the group - one of the characters is secretly a good guy (or at least inclined to be so). Somebody with the righ mindset and character could have an absolute blast here (pun intended), playing off the bad guys against each other.

[Gnaskar]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

we've considered it, but in an effort to reduce backstabbing, we've decided to disallow that idea. And as the players meet in a bank robbery, its hard to explain what the "good guy" is doing robbing a bank.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

we've considered it' date=' but in an effort to reduce backstabbing, we've decided to disallow that idea. And as the players meet in a bank robbery, its hard to explain what the "good guy" is doing robbing a bank.[/quote']

 

Backstabbing? Supervillains? SURELY not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Think of it as any other undercover law enforcement operation, just on a bigger scale. You got word that a bunch of bad superdudes are forming their own gang. Someone in authority could get the idea that the best way to combat this is to have their own man(/woman/thing) on the inside - tag along, gain trust by aiding some comparitively minor crimes, then find out what the BIG plan is, and so on.

[Checkmate]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

If I were to ever run a supervillains campaign, it would have to be one of two ways:

 

Squadron Supreme/Dr. Doom: The PC's honestly believe that they could turn the world into a Utopia if they were in charge. If you want to get a little more evil, they could have the attitude that we'll have to kill hundreds to save Billions.

 

Magneto/Something In Common: Everyone's a mutant sick of persecution, so they're gonna change things. Something that will make the PC's part of one family so they look out for each other, and woe to anyone who isn't like them.

 

I think if you keep it along these lines, this will give the PC's a plausible reason not to kill each other.

[Psybolt]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Will there be a "boss"... the PCs are minions of the head guy, or are they all bonding together... because I see issues either way. A head guy NPC could keep the group in bay assuming he is more powerful, but he could also create anger among the PCs.

 

Plus, a certain amount of back stabbing isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on how bad it is. That could be fun to play. You're on a team but you don't trust any of them, so everything has to be watched.

 

And I too like the idea of the undecover hero among the vileness. If done correctly, that could be really cool.

[Badger]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Actually, my WWYCD characters I use most could work as villains.

 

Badger is a pardoned, reformed villain. Frosty Bob has done a lot of mercenary work during peacetime years who is a casual killer (at least in his soldier/mercenary days).

 

 

Though, the drawbacks for them are they wouldnt make good masterminds. Generally would be interested more in fulfilling their short-term or petty needs. Henchmen? Not really. Both would be a bit too loose cannon.

 

Still, I might have to think on this.

[Beast]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Right now I'm in a game on HC where we are all Viper agents and we just completed our first heist of a semi full of Wonderflonium(not really something else harder to obtain and worth more gaurds than 1 guy and a van

we had mercs and a low powered superhero to deal with

we got away with no serious injuries cannot say the same for the mercs,the driver and the cape

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Villain campaign discussions come up from time to time. Here's a link to one of the earlier ones:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57365

 

I enjoy villain campaigns, when everyone's on the same page for expectations they can be a great change of pace. Sounds like you're doing it right in trying to deal with as much of that up front as possible. I might be interested in this one depending on time commitments...

 

Couple of things:

 

- Forming the group in-play. While it is more exciting, once you get the players involved things can still fall apart. The sneaky villain gets away before the group forms and has to be re-introduced later. One villain makes a snide remark about the other one's cape and a feud is born. Etc. Even if the group itself is formed in play, I would suggest working out some pre-game connections between the PCs so there is some existing glue to help form them together. A and B worked together previously. C and D know each other from their Viper days. A and C are both mutants and helped each other out in a running battle with a Minuteman robot. Etc. Helps it go down easier than just "hey, it's another criminal in a mask". Also helps to naturally avoid the 'backstabbing' issue if there's some positive history.

 

- Goals. Along with attitude/tone, it's good to have common goals or ones that can be complementary - A wants to take over the world, B sees taking over the world as a good way to get rich, C knows that Hero X will oppose the group so great avenue for revenge, D is loyal to A, etc. For varied goals, the villain with the biggest goal would IMO tend to be more of a driving force, so would need to be most careful with picking the right player/character for that. Same goal groups of course are great too - everyone in the Sinister Syndicate wants to get rich and hates Spider-Man. Various secondary goals and subplots, but easy to see why they hang out together.

 

- Aside from getting on the same page for tone/etc. it's a good idea for everyone to be on the same page as to the villains' role in the story as a whole. They're the PCs, but should have an understanding of how big a 'win' they should expect - ie expect to fail at actually taking over the world, but can have significant successes at smaller scales, heroes will escape deathtraps but you should use them anyways, etc. vs. "Scott Evil" solutions. Either way is fine, as long as everyone is playing the same tune.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

And I too like the idea of the undecover hero among the vileness. If done correctly' date=' that could be really cool.[/quote']

 

Sort of "Kaiser Suze" in reverse, maybe.

[Shigeru]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Right now I'm in a game on HC where we are all Viper agents and we just completed our first heist of a semi full of Wonderflonium(not really something else harder to obtain and worth more gaurds than 1 guy and a van

we had mercs and a low powered superhero to deal with

we got away with no serious injuries cannot say the same for the mercs,the driver and the cape

 

 

In fairness to the mercs, you bushwhacked them good!

[Revenant]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Considering applying for this game over on rpol, but quick question as to "feel". Most of my characters tend towards Silver Age, would this be acceptable given the tone of the campaign you have in mind?

[Gnaskar]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Mostly, except we try not to have a quite so black and white world when our characters are villains. Though a villain who shares traits with silver age heroes would probably work well. In our team so far we have a disgruntled scientist, a mage thief, and a guy who got his powers in a radioactive space ship. As for the humor, well, lets just say Foxbat leads a superhero team...

[bubba smith]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Mostly' date=' except we try not to have a quite so black and white world when our characters are villains. Though a villain who shares traits with silver age heroes would probably work well. In our team so far we have a disgruntled scientist, a mage thief, and a guy who got his powers in a radioactive space ship. As for the humor, well, lets just say Foxbat leads a superhero team...[/quote']

his dream come true isn't it

[Revenant]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

I'm assuming from the examples you've given us that a quirky smart mouth (ala Spidey) villain who's basically in it for the cash and the girls, but not necessarily in that order?

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

- Forming the group in-play. While it is more exciting, once you get the players involved things can still fall apart. The sneaky villain gets away before the group forms and has to be re-introduced later. One villain makes a snide remark about the other one's cape and a feud is born. Etc. Even if the group itself is formed in play, I would suggest working out some pre-game connections between the PCs so there is some existing glue to help form them together. A and B worked together previously. C and D know each other from their Viper days. A and C are both mutants and helped each other out in a running battle with a Minuteman robot. Etc. Helps it go down easier than just "hey, it's another criminal in a mask". Also helps to naturally avoid the 'backstabbing' issue if there's some positive history.

 

An interesting compromise is to have a more complex web in which some PCs are not directly connected with one or two others or where two PCs who share a friendship with a third PC are bitter rivals. This will certainly cause interestind conflicts, but should keep the party loosely held together. Anyway it will let the GM play with his puppet players.

 

Dance, dance for the puppet master.

[SatinKitty]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

We have tried this. OddHat found it was easier to GM villains because they have just one objective at a time and once they get it they just move forward. Or they're done. Heroes have to cover all the bases. Villains do not have to stop to rescue innocent bystanders. One of the players finds it much easier to play villains. We have only tried this a few times and when we do the game seems to go much faster.

[Vulcan]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

Another villian plot - this one from our campaign world.

 

A few months after the original Genesis team was disbanded, another group of supers moved into their base. Announcing themselves as the 'Dark Champions', they proclaimed themselves to be the 'new protectors of the city.'

 

Yeah. They were villians. It turned out to be a protection racket writ large. You didn't pay up, they didn't protect your neighborhood. And then bad things started happening...

 

It occurs to me that a really foward-thinking group of villians would make themselves out to be heroes, winning the love and adoration of the people, then running for public office...

 

"Elect me, and I'll make sure everyone is safe from theft!" (After all, who needs to steal, when they can tax!)

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: Opposing Force: Taking a Walk on the Vile Side

 

It's important to remember that World Domination is the ultimate rich man's game; the resourses need to make it an achievable goal--and indeed, a tenable position once said goal is finally achieved--neither come easy nor cheap. Seriously, ever try building a viable Weather Dominator Machine™ on Joe Burgerflipper's salary? Exactly, such would be ridiculously improbable.

 

And what is my point you ask? Simple. The group will need what you might call a "World Domination Checklist", a series smaller objectives that will need to be accomplished before they're truly "ready for primetime" so to speak.