Who's the baddest mutha in your campaign?

[Tech]

On the pre-made villain side, I'd say my modified version of Ripper from Stronghold always makes heroes worry - alot! I don't even have to bring up Dr. Destroyer, do I now?

[Broblawsky]

Hunh. How did you build Black Hole's absorption power tech? I'm actually not sure how that would work.

 

On topic, I think Nebula may be one of the most dangerous characters I've ever seen, not just because of her 14d6 EB (I think that's what she has), but rather because she uses a stop-sign advantage on a stop-sign power. It's not fair, really - if I can't use it, then why should she be allowed to?

[DoctorItron]

I can't give too many details because some of my players read these boards, but the recurring baddies are:

 

#1: Teleios is an important part of 2 PCs' origins.

 

#2: A heavily modified Black Paladin is after 2 PCs. The New Defenders temporarily banished him to the Plane of Shadows. Black Paladin is using the downtime to think about ways to get his son and would-be-servant (2 separate PCs) to cooperate with his plans.

 

#3: A new team of morally-gray supers are ready to irrevocably change the world. I look forward to seeing how the New Defenders react. Will the PCs join them, oppose them, or try to peacefully co-exist?

[Enforcer84]

Originally posted by DoctorItron

 

#3: A new team of morally-gray supers are ready to irrevocably change the world. I look forward to seeing how the New Defenders react. Will the PCs join them, oppose them, or try to peacefully co-exist?

 

 

 

A La Change or Die?

 

Actually I trolled my big bad NPC's around for name help. I can't remember if I ever posted them.

 

They are a horrifying vision of the JLA and Avengers; egotistical, arrogant, omnipresent, powerful and popular enough to do as they please, they are: the Lords of Justice.

 

After having them bust the chops of my players (literally and metaphorically) on a few occasions they were the baddest muthah's on the planet.

 

then Atlas returned.

 

 

 

buweahahahahahahah.

 

 

I used Atlas from Golden Age Champions, having left earth some time ago to explore the universe and find his place in it, he returns (much like Supreme (originally) did but he's not a d*ck) anyway he's a Superman/Captain Marvel type fellow with full access to the vast intelligence (60) that he was given, his powers are permanent (no OHID) and much stronger. He basically called several mid to high level supers to his banner a la Kingdom Come(....getting the feeling that I don't have an original idea in my head? well I probably just stole that too...)

Superion of the LofJ and his cronies are none too happy about it.

[Tech]

Originally posted by Broblawsky

Hunh. How did you build Black Hole's absorption power tech? I'm actually not sure how that would work.

 

Since you asked (and hopefully no one from my group reads this), I'll try to write it out. I don't have the sheet in front of me right now. It's horrendously expensive but it works:

 

note: I don't recall if it's 6" or 12"

 

6d6 Absorbtion vs. PD to Stun, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

6d6 Absorbtion vs. ED to Stun, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

+30 ED, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

+30 PD, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

Damage Resistance 30 PD, 30 ED 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

some Life Support, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

stuff I can't recall off-hand

 

This isn't the full power but it's at least part of the power. I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff, like Advantages, Limitations & others - I'd have to check later. When Black Hole absorbs 'energy' (whether physical or energy), everybody in the area gets bonus PD/ED because the energy's being redirected towards him. The Area Effect makes sure that if the energy is near him, he gets to Absorb it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Tech

Since you asked (and hopefully no one from my group reads this), I'll try to write it out. I don't have the sheet in front of me right now. It's horrendously expensive but it works:

 

note: I don't recall if it's 6" or 12"

 

6d6 Absorbtion vs. PD to Stun, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

6d6 Absorbtion vs. ED to Stun, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

+30 ED, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

+30 PD, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

Damage Resistance 30 PD, 30 ED 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

some Life Support, 6" (or 12") Area Effect +

stuff I can't recall off-hand

 

This isn't the full power but it's at least part of the power. I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff, like Advantages, Limitations & others - I'd have to check later. When Black Hole absorbs 'energy' (whether physical or energy), everybody in the area gets bonus PD/ED because the energy's being redirected towards him. The Area Effect makes sure that if the energy is near him, he gets to Absorb it.

 

hmmm...don't the bonus DEF need "usable against others" to apply to others so they don't take damage? Probably just left off your list.

 

I was considering Missile Deflection (area effect) with "suck the blasts in" being the special effect. Maybe Ranged, some kind of persistent continuous effect, and penalty skill levels to offset the penalties for deflecting multiple attacks in a phase. That would also put range penalties on his power, so a blast further away from him is more likely to evade his "gravity". Hadn't gotten beyond that point, actually. I didn't realize it also increased his power, but I guess that could be simulated by an Aid (Absorb no longer working as he's not getting hit). It still doesn't get HTH attacks, though.

 

It's a very interesting construct. I'll have to keep it in mind to piece it together some day. I don't see him as a PC, so it doesn't really matter if the points get a bit fuzzy.

[Tech]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

hmmm...don't the bonus DEF need "usable against others" to apply to others so they don't take damage? Probably just left off your list.

 

I was considering Missile Deflection (area effect) with "suck the blasts in" being the special effect. Maybe Ranged, some kind of persistent continuous effect, and penalty skill levels to offset the penalties for deflecting multiple attacks in a phase. That would also put range penalties on his power, so a blast further away from him is more likely to evade his "gravity". Hadn't gotten beyond that point, actually. I didn't realize it also increased his power, but I guess that could be simulated by an Aid (Absorb no longer working as he's not getting hit). It still doesn't get HTH attacks, though.

 

It's a very interesting construct. I'll have to keep it in mind to piece it together some day. I don't see him as a PC, so it doesn't really matter if the points get a bit fuzzy.

 

Hmm, from what I remember, I nixed the PD/ED needing the Usuable against others, instead treating it as as -0 limitation/advantage. I could easily recreate it as a Limitation on the power, correctly stated, but didn't feel like mucking around with it. The Negative Levels are a good idea. I can add the Aid but the Absorbtion stays, in the likely event (since he's a villain) someone blasts away at him. Again, I'll have to look at his sheet later. He's in the process of being converted to 5th Edition. Did I mention he has an 85 Con? Yeah, it's way WAY up there but I didn't want him being stunned - ever. The high Con is something of a throwback from 1st Edition Density Increase rules but I kept it as I've upgraded him to newer editions over the years. Thanks for the good upgrade ideas. FYI, Con's in my game are usually below 30 so his is unheard of - not that the players know. They just know he's strong, durable, tough and he's never been stunned; just like I want him to be.

[starblaze]

Originally posted by TheRealVector

The one villain that my players hated was a Syrian born, western educated scientist who was a genius in the field of nanotechnology. He used his knowledge to re-engineer his body; adamantium skeleton, muscles of diamond fiber, every cell a mini-computer to enhance his considerable intellect. He dubbed himself Jihad and became a super powered terrorist. All this was just the excuse I used to have my players (playing in a modified Ultimate Marvel setting) fight my version of silver age Superman.

He was one tough villain. I used him only twice:

The first time Jihad and a small cadre of enhanced terrorist planned to release a super-virus upon our troops in Afghanistan. It took the combined might of Vanguard (our players superteam) and the Ultimates to bring Jihad down.

The second time Jihad escaped from imprisonment during Gulf War IIand nearly destroyed downtown Chicago (Vanguard's home base) in a preemptive attack that left one hero dead and the team defeated. Then Jihad headed striaght for D.C. and held the capitol hostage. Vanguard rallyed and finally defeated Jihad for good. The archtypical "loose canon/wolverine type" player character made sure Jihad never regained consciousness and disposed of the body. Fortunately the congressional investigation didn't look into that too deeply. My players were never so glad to see an NPC dead.

 

With Jihad dead, and not counting entities like Galactus, I'd say my players most fear Magneto and a home grown villain of mine called Time Sinc (temporal powers are scary!)

 

Sorry this is so long, but it's saturday and I'm at work:(

Hey! Is that your boss standing behind you?

[GenreFiend]

Originally posted by Tech

Hmm, from what I remember, I nixed the PD/ED needing the Usuable against others, instead treating it as as -0 limitation/advantage. I could easily recreate it as a Limitation on the power, correctly stated, but didn't feel like mucking around with it. The Negative Levels are a good idea. I can add the Aid but the Absorbtion ......

 

Etc., etc. If anything, this is the one problem I've always had with Champions. GMs give their villains a really cool ability, and then feel the need to figure out exactly how, in game mechanics, it works. He's an NPC! He absorbs energy blasts from the surrounding area BECAUSE THE GM SAYS SO! Sorry, I just get bogged down in the mathematics of the Hero system sometimes, and long for the simpler days of the original Marvel Superheroes RPG.

[DoctorItron]

Originally posted by Enforcer84

A La Change or Die?

SNIP

 

Do you mean the Stormwatch story? I wasn't familiar with it before your posting, so I don't think it had an influence on me.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by GenreFiend

Etc., etc. If anything, this is the one problem I've always had with Champions. GMs give their villains a really cool ability, and then feel the need to figure out exactly how, in game mechanics, it works. He's an NPC! He absorbs energy blasts from the surrounding area BECAUSE THE GM SAYS SO! Sorry, I just get bogged down in the mathematics of the Hero system sometimes, and long for the simpler days of the original Marvel Superheroes RPG.

 

Well, I think some GMs just enjoy doing that. And there are some things you have to chart out in game mechanics, such as how many d6 damage, what the range actually is, a few other esentials. But yea, the value of a lim or adv is fairly meaningless. I do actually put in the lims and advantages because I want to be reminded of them but I don't sweat the value very much. I do like to have a total cost just to get an idea if I'm overarming a villain.

 

One reason I haven't posted villains though on the boards or elsewhere is that my writeups, because I'm the GM, remain incomplete. I leave out the details necessary for an independent person to really understand how the villain works, particularly the vibrant emotional details that are so important as they tend to stay in my head and barely if at all make it to paper.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by GenreFiend

Etc., etc. If anything, this is the one problem I've always had with Champions. GMs give their villains a really cool ability, and then feel the need to figure out exactly how, in game mechanics, it works. He's an NPC! He absorbs energy blasts from the surrounding area BECAUSE THE GM SAYS SO! Sorry, I just get bogged down in the mathematics of the Hero system sometimes, and long for the simpler days of the original Marvel Superheroes RPG.

 

Agree and diosagree. I'll throw the math out for a cool effect, but it's never a bad idea to stat it out. This is especially important for inexperienced GM's, but we can all misjudge the power of an effect.

 

recalls new GM's villain who seemed to walk all over us. Afterwards, he shows us the character sheet. he's slipped a decimal place, and the major attack power has 10x the dice it ought to have at that cost. I wonder why he seemed so overpowered

[Lucian]

Although shes not actually a villian, my players are terrified of an npc called Perigrinne. She is a 6000 yr old immortal who was once worshipped as an angel in biblical times. Her power is psionic control of organic molecules on a molecular level (including people).

 

She freaked everyone out during one battle when she was fighting alongside the players. She dealt with a particularly tough brick by literally turning him inside out and the using the corpse to continue fighting his comrades.

 

Her facination for life and her tendancy to casually perform grotesque experiments on people just to see what will happen have given her a creepy, unapprochable reputation. My players are currently trying to instill a sense of modern morals in her becase they certainly dont want to fight her.

[GenreFiend]

Originally posted by Lucian

Although shes not actually a villian,... (snip)... her tendancy to casually perform grotesque experiments on people just to see what will happen have given her a creepy, unapprochable reputation. My players are currently trying to instill a sense of modern morals in her becase they certainly dont want to fight her.

 

Hate to disagree, but I would say she IS a villain.

[Doc Democracy]

The villain all my players feared was based on Deathstroke from the Teen Titans - I called him Contract. I loved the idea of the mercenary villain and the players are aware that if they encounter the villain he will focus on his task rather than on beating the crap out of them so they aren't desperate to beat him - just to frustrate his intentions.

 

His main weapon is SPD 12. My games are essentially SPD 5-6 and the first few times he faced the whole group he wiped the floor with them. He was built on 500 points compared to the teams five 250 pt heroes with about 50-75 pts experience.

 

Eventually they learned they HAD to work as a team to beat him - they HAD to make sure they acted on EVERY phase to stop him recovering and taunting on the phases none of them moved. Even then they've had problems.

 

I think it was said before - players hate intelligent villains. None of his abilities are as good as the players except the SPD and it makes ALL the difference.

 

It was Contract that was paid to humiliate the heroes and rather than do it personally he constructed robots designed to take advantage of each hero. For 150 points each robot beat its hero 1 to 1 and then Contract appeared to defeat the robots - obviously with the press nearby.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Doc Democracy

The villain all my players feared was based on Deathstroke from the Teen Titans - I called him Contract. I loved the idea of the mercenary villain and the players are aware that if they encounter the villain he will focus on his task rather than on beating the crap out of them so they aren't desperate to beat him - just to frustrate his intentions.

 

His main weapon is SPD 12. My games are essentially SPD 5-6 and the first few times he faced the whole group he wiped the floor with them. He was built on 500 points compared to the teams five 250 pt heroes with about 50-75 pts experience.

 

Eventually they learned they HAD to work as a team to beat him - they HAD to make sure they acted on EVERY phase to stop him recovering and taunting on the phases none of them moved. Even then they've had problems.

 

I think it was said before - players hate intelligent villains. None of his abilities are as good as the players except the SPD and it makes ALL the difference.

 

It was Contract that was paid to humiliate the heroes and rather than do it personally he constructed robots designed to take advantage of each hero. For 150 points each robot beat its hero 1 to 1 and then Contract appeared to defeat the robots - obviously with the press nearby.

 

Okay, my first reaction is that you are, uh, being a jerk.

'Only' 500 pts with 'Only' SPD 12?

Mere 150pt bots?

 

You can destroy the world with 60 AP.

[Lucian]

Originally posted by GenreFiend

Hate to disagree, but I would say she IS a villain.

 

I guess it depends on your definition of "villian". What I meant by that is that she doesnt have an adgenda to take over the world or steal money which is what the classical villian does.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by WhammeWhamme

Okay, my first reaction is that you are, uh, being a jerk.

'Only' 500 pts with 'Only' SPD 12?

Mere 150pt bots?

 

You can destroy the world with 60 AP.

 

Whether you're being a jerk depends more on how the game is played than who the character is. The bigger question is whether the GM made a big deal of the characters losing. "My villain's tougher than all of you put together nayner nayner nayner" is being a jerk. Preventing the players' well thought out plans for dealing with this opponent is being a jerk. Smiling as the heroes clean the villain's clock the second time, and telling them "good job" for their strategic planning as you hand out the XP - that's setting an interesting and challenging scenario, and being a good GM.

 

To me, both the 150 point 'bots and the 12 SPD 500 point guy sound like classic comic book encounters. Fight the 'bots one on one and lose miserably. Swap opponents and clean their clocks since each one is customized for a specific opponent.

 

The big villain who cleans our heroe's clocks the first time, then gets clobbered when the heroes come back knowing what to expect and ready to deal with it describes hundreds of classic comics. Sure, the big guy's on double the PC points, but he's probably going up against, what, 5 against one odds? How many points does Mechanon have? Is it being a jerk to use him against the PC's? He's got 12 phases per turn. 5 PC's probably have more than 24 phases per turn.

 

[One very effective way to fight the big villains is to have the characters switch off so some fight and some recover at any given time. Fighting a guy with 12 Speed just puts the shoe on the other foot.]

[Doc Democracy]

Originally posted by WhammeWhamme

Okay, my first reaction is that you are, uh, being a jerk.

'Only' 500 pts with 'Only' SPD 12?

Mere 150pt bots?

 

Here we are talking about villains the players love to hate and you want to call me a jerk for presenting a SPD 12 villain. Really makes the place feel welcome.

 

As Lucian pointed out (thank you ) The whole point of a challenge to the players is giving them something they have to think about. With lots of opponents or very powerful opponents there are standard tactics. They'd never faced someone with such a high speed and had to develop a whole new set of tactics to deal with him. They did that and got the experience for it. And the satisfaction of beating the man.

 

Sorry you think I'm a jerk GM, good job you don't have to play in my games, huh?

[lemming]

Originally posted by WhammeWhamme

Okay, my first reaction is that you are, uh, being a jerk.

'Only' 500 pts with 'Only' SPD 12?

Mere 150pt bots?

 

You can destroy the world with 60 AP.

Hmm, I think you might of jumped to conclusions. Remember that every game is different. Am I a jerk for having PCs at 400-600 points and then for opponents of 1000 points? Depends on how they're played and constructed.

Your quote of "You can destroy the world with 60 AP" shows that you know that the system can be used very effectively at a small expenditure of points.

 

The moral of the story is, don't get on somebodies case because they play differently. If everyone in the game is having fun, then they're playing correctly.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by lemming

If everyone in the game is having fun, then they're playing correctly.

 

Oh, and I suppose if everyone broke the law but nothing bad happened, that'd be okay? Well, that's the kind of moral relativism I've learned to expect in this society...

 

No, if they're not playing my way, they're playing wrong. I've tried to be nice, I've tried to be patient with you all. But you ALL KEEP playing the wrong way. In fact you keep using that new big black book, too.

 

Therefore, I'm going to invade your houses. One-by-one. Please send me your addresses and I will occupy until you've learned to play the right way. Trust me, you'll be happier.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by lemming

Hmm, I think you might of jumped to conclusions. Remember that every game is different. Am I a jerk for having PCs at 400-600 points and then for opponents of 1000 points? Depends on how they're played and constructed.

Your quote of "You can destroy the world with 60 AP" shows that you know that the system can be used very effectively at a small expenditure of points.

 

The moral of the story is, don't get on somebodies case because they play differently. If everyone in the game is having fun, then they're playing correctly.

 

It just set off warning bells. Particularly the '150pt' robots. It's much easier to munchkinize (mentally speaking) fixed pt characters.

 

I was probably wrong about the GM in question.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Doc Democracy

Here we are talking about villains the players love to hate and you want to call me a jerk for presenting a SPD 12 villain. Really makes the place feel welcome.

 

As Lucian pointed out (thank you ) The whole point of a challenge to the players is giving them something they have to think about. With lots of opponents or very powerful opponents there are standard tactics. They'd never faced someone with such a high speed and had to develop a whole new set of tactics to deal with him. They did that and got the experience for it. And the satisfaction of beating the man.

 

Sorry you think I'm a jerk GM, good job you don't have to play in my games, huh?

 

Oh, SPD 12 is fine. I think it's a good idea, all up.

The way it was presented made me suspect underhanded play; even 'an intelligent villain' is a warning sign.

 

Still, if you were fair, I'd say the statement was going far too far.

 

I wasn't really thinking when I postedf that.

[Shocker]

The Menace

 

The biggest baddie the players have met (more than once) in my game is Major Menace. He's a psychopathic terrorist/blackmailer type with lots of resources and agents. He's died three times, all dupes in his costume, and whenever the old red and black suit comes out everybody groans.

[lemming]

Originally posted by zornwil

Therefore, I'm going to invade your houses. One-by-one. Please send me your addresses and I will occupy until you've learned to play the right way. Trust me, you'll be happier.

So I'm back and ready to play. I need to check with my events coordinator and see when my next game will be.

 

Hmm, I have to figure out where the hell my game is at the moment.

 

I have a few characters that could of so easily filled the role of bad mutha, but what happens? The PCs are reasonable and make friends. I gotta dust off a couple psychos that I got in the wings...