Microverse : what did you do with it ?

[kridenow]

Hi there,

 

I'm toying with the idea of sending characters in the Microverse, as part of a serie of "incredible adventures".

 

How did you use the Microverse ? Down to what scale do you (or would you) shrink the microverse ?

 

I was considering a down-to-atomic-scale Microverse but then come the simple question of "how is looking the world when you're so tiny ?".

 

Here the Microverse is basically the adventure setting, not a way to explain the power effects while keeping a remote (normal sized) point of view.

So it will be less "you can move through the door because you're so tiny now, when on the other side, what you're doing ?" but more a universe on its own.

 

Since I have trouble to picture how the world could look when you're microverse sized (it also come from only a vague estimation of the Shrink level), I thought asking if someone already used it as a setting (even or if only for a game)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

Best advice I can give is to go to your local comic shop and find some old back issues of The Atom or Justice League (featuring The Atom).

 

For a Marvel comics perspective you could also look for old Micronauts comics as well.

[Asperion]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

The way that I would play a microverse would not be in terms of differing size, but as a truly different universe. The shrinker would enter it through their XDM power (basically shrinking to the point that they literally enter atomic sizes). Everything around them would be proportionally sized (unless as GM you wish something differently sized). In addition, it would possess its own rules and abilities and (as GM) you can state how everything will work, this includes powers/abilities that are normally available and reliable. So, in the end, it will be a whole other reality that you can design to your desires (and be the evil GM that you are ).

 

 

 

Go out there and HAVE FUN!!!

[kridenow]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

Best advice I can give is to go to your local comic shop and find some old back issues of The Atom or Justice League (featuring The Atom).

 

For a Marvel comics perspective you could also look for old Micronauts comics as well.

 

As curiously as it can sound, I'm close to be completely ignorant in comics matters.

Will try to see if I can find some of the titles you mentionned.

[kridenow]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

So' date=' in the end, it will be a whole other reality that you can design to your desires[/quote']

 

Well, yes, that's why I came here to ask what others have done with the Microverse : what is your Microverse world, how does it look, how are your characters travelling, what are the "natural dangers" ?, did you... populate it ? so on.

 

The question of what the world looks like when your atom sized can be easily ignored when you focus on the end result like a character shrinking to pass through a door or some some NND attack from "inside".

It's what I called "keeping a remote, normal sized point of view" as, here, the Microverse is just the flavor explaining the effect.

But when it's the focus of the adventure, it raises all the questions I didn't really need to answer.

 

Maybe I should go back to books about particle physics as well as trying to grab some comics ?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

also from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microverse

 

Microverses are parallel dimensions occurring within the fictional Marvel Universe. The Microverses are often visited by the Fantastic Four in various adventures. They were formerly defined as any universe only accessible through vibrational attunement (shrinking). The belief that these worlds exist within atoms may have given rise to the stock phrase "There are worlds within worlds".

It is not actually the microverses that are microscopic in size but rather the nexuses which make them accessible. It is thus theoretically possible to enter the same microverse from different points on Earth. The volume of these microverses are contained within spacewalls which can only be breached at certain points. It is these breaches that create accessible portals.

Originally, many microverses existed within the Marvel Multiverse. The most commonly visited is the one containing the regions known as Sub-Atomica and the Micronauts Homeworld. This Microverse was populated to a large extent by a group of refugee starfarers from a doomed planet, Ithaka. Led by their leader, Wayfinder, they eventually settled on Earth. They were displaced, yet again, by demons. With the help of The Sword in The Star, they were relocated to one of the Microverses. They eventually became the ancestors of many of the races located there.

These multiple microverses no longer exist. It was revealed during Peter David's Captain Marvel series that a thus far unseen conflict between Baron Karza and Thanos had resulted in all of the realms of the Microverse becoming merged into a single dimension referred to as the Microverse.

Other inhabitants of the new merged Microverse include the Children of the Confluence of Stars and the Psycho-Man, a scientist exiled from Sub-Atomica. Psycho-Man was a recurring enemy of the Fantastic Four. This Microverse is also the "birthplace" of the Enigma Force which regularly manifests itself on Earth in the form of Captain Universe.

While on Earth, Wayfinder and his followers probably settled in what is now India. Several of his leading followers had names such as Agni, Yama, Mara, and Kali which are names out of Hindu mythology. Their presence may have inspired these myths and Dr. Strange did acquire an ancient monolith that was found in India that bore images of the Cosmic Keys that would become instrumental in saving the Microverse.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

For me, the last time I GMed a Microverse adventure,

it provided the perfect hiding place for the bad guy

and his kidnap victims.

 

read here:

Micro-Base Adventure

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

The traditional use of a "Microverse" in comics and science fiction was inspired by the earlier, simplistic model of an atom with a nucleus and electrons orbiting it, as directly parallelling a solar system with its central sun and orbiting planets. At that scale shrunk visitors were no longer able to perceive the macroscopic world in any recognizable way. They interacted with individual electron "planets" as though they were entire worlds, usually Earthlike to a great degree.

 

With the more recent understanding of the greater complexity of atomic structure, comics universes with an established "microverse," such as Marvel, have used the explanation that they actually exist in another universe, which is accessible through shrinking to sub-atomic size. In most cases the microverse's physical appearance remains similar to that of Earth and its region of space. However, if using that model you could justify your microverse having a radically different appearance, makeup and even physical laws, if that would suit your purposes.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

As a big Micronauts fan, I highly recommend it as a source for microverses

[kridenow]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

also from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microverse

 

Oh, of course, I should have think, and started, about that and wiki

(I blame my lack of knowledge of comics)

 

As a big Micronauts fan' date=' I highly recommend it as a source for microverses [/quote']

 

Look it can (logically) be one, yes.

[kridenow]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

The traditional use of a "Microverse" in comics and science fiction was inspired by the earlier, simplistic model of an atom with a nucleus and electrons orbiting it, as directly parallelling a solar system with its central sun and orbiting planets. At that scale shrunk visitors were no longer able to perceive the macroscopic world in any recognizable way. They interacted with individual electron "planets" as though they were entire worlds, usually Earthlike to a great degree.

 

With the more recent understanding of the greater complexity of atomic structure, comics universes with an established "microverse," such as Marvel, have used the explanation that they actually exist in another universe, which is accessible through shrinking to sub-atomic size. In most cases the microverse's physical appearance remains similar to that of Earth and its region of space. However, if using that model you could justify your microverse having a radically different appearance, makeup and even physical laws, if that would suit your purposes.

 

Yes but, there, the Microverse is simply another dimension accessible only by shrinking.

It's an interesting take but rather disconnected from the "real world".

I figure you can still play in that alternate dimension and make symbolic ties to the normal world.

 

I originally considered playing at the micro/nanometre scale. Which is a scale where viruses and bacteria populate the Microverse. Or playing at tne femtometre scale where we're speaking of atom and electrons cloud. There, what is a population might become debatable

 

In the first case, it's relatively easy to picture viruses and bacteria and make all of this the population of the physiological world.

In the second case, it's much harder (to me) to picture how the Microverse could look. Plus interaction looks much more limited.

 

The dimensional movement route and the Microverse as a world on its own dodge the depiction problem but provides a workable solution.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

To be honest, I would have great difficulty myself conveying to a game group how a "realistic" sub-atomic environment would "look" to them. In the real world it's usually expressed through mathematics; I've yet to see a graphical model of an entire atom, with all the sub- and infra-atomic particles science now recognizes as constituents.

 

Quantum theory states that the appearance of quanta, as wave or particle, depends on the observer perceiving it, the act of perception influencing the result. How about taking that to an extreme? At the sub-atomic level the particles and waves directly respond to observing intelligence, reshaping themselves according to the viewer's desire and will, conscious or unconscious.

 

This could be run similarly to the version of the Dreamzone dimension from Champions In 3-D -- when the PCs first arrive the landscape will spontaneously take a form from the memories, dreams, or fears of the PC with the highest INT or EGO score (as interpreted by the GM). This might change at random, or when a particular situation arises, to reflect the unconscious thoughts of the other PCs. As the heroes come to realize the nature of their environment, they can deliberately change it with a successful Characteristic Roll, or competing rolls if their visions conflict. You might even allow them a small VPP of Powers drawing from the quanta around them.

 

This could be a great opportunity for roleplaying, by confronting the heroes with their greatest fears or deepest desires, or tempt them to create their perfect world where the mistakes of their lives could be undone, if only in illusion.

 

OTOH there could already be another intelligent being within the atom the heroes end up in, who has created his own world and doesn't welcome intruders disrupting it.

[Lucius]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

Yes but, there, the Microverse is simply another dimension accessible only by shrinking.

It's an interesting take but rather disconnected from the "real world".

I figure you can still play in that alternate dimension and make symbolic ties to the normal world.

 

I originally considered playing at the micro/nanometre scale. Which is a scale where viruses and bacteria populate the Microverse. Or playing at tne femtometre scale where we're speaking of atom and electrons cloud. There, what is a population might become debatable

 

In the first case, it's relatively easy to picture viruses and bacteria and make all of this the population of the physiological world.

In the second case, it's much harder (to me) to picture how the Microverse could look. Plus interaction looks much more limited.

 

The dimensional movement route and the Microverse as a world on its own dodge the depiction problem but provides a workable solution.

 

In game mechanics terms, this would still be "Extra Dimensional Movement" but defined not as passing through a portal but simply as shrinking down to the appropriate size.

 

Germ fighting might make an interesting adventure at that.

 

At the subatomic size, I don't think I an improve on Lord Liaden's suggestion. Other than to consider the possibility that subatomic particles are themselves "alive" and intelligent....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary quotes cummings: "plays with the bigness of his littleness; electrons deify one razor blade into a mountain range"

[kridenow]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

I've pondered a bit more about extreme shrinking.

 

Yes, the atomic-sub atomic level is really difficulty to imagine and how it would look.

 

Wandering in such an "atomic- microverse could be more or less touching the essence of things, how they are done, why, by whom and so on.

So, I might go for something relatively mystic in nature, despite having ties and inspirations from real world physics.

How would it look... is still a question. I may dodge a bit the problem by relying on symbolic views and having figurative descriptions.

Which would be "since your (character) mind isn't really ready to apprehend this weird universe, here is how it interpret what you see".

 

So, the microverse layer made of viruses and bacteria is actually supported by a smaller and rather conceptual layer of reality.

 

I however need to populate this microverse with interesting denizens...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

Since you're taking this more mystical/metaphysical slant to the sub-atomic world, it might be worth looking into the Champions sourcebook The Mystic World. A sizeable portion of it describes the fundamental nature and structure of the Multiverse, with various types of mystical dimensions and descriptions of a number of specific ones, a few in considerable detail. Some are relatively concrete and identifiable, while others are abstract and tied to the fundamental forces of existence. And inhabitants are often described, if not all statted.

 

If you're more inclined to design your own microversal "dimensions," there's some practical advice and guidelines in The Ultimate Mystic.

[azato]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

After looking through my old Micronauts comics I looked to see what other had hopefully done and came across this thread. The comic series was decent, and as was mentioned, doesn't jive with modern understanding of matter. But the background is somewhat like Star Wars (no surprise there considering it was written in the late 70's), and the characters/races are memorable. The fact that it is supposedly at the atomic level could be ignored -- but simply allow for planets to be connected together like atoms. Yeah that does play havoc with reality..you could, I suppose have the sun rotate around the planet chain..or simply ignore it.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

A more modern take on this idea would go down to much smaller scales, possibly all the way down to the scales postulated by String Theory, and put the "microverse" (which would actually be much smaller than "micro") within the extra compacted dimensions which are too small for us to perceive, but required for String Theory to work.

 

I'm really butchering the basic concepts of String Theory here, but we're talking comic book physics and I don't want to hurt the cat-girls....

 

It should also be noted that cat-girls LOVE string theory, for obvious reasons.

[Laundry Knight]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

I would treat microverses just like alternate dimensions and use them as a good excuse to take your campaign into new and unusual places.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

Just a top-line view of how we use the Microverse in Epic City (see link in sig for Epic City campaign stuff)

 

Lots of good scientific explanation mumbo-jumbo in the PDF.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

Oh, another handout about the Multiverse and Great Britain Prime (just cuz it kinda has to do with 'verses)

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Microverse : what did you do with it ?

 

I originally considered playing at the micro/nanometre scale. Which is a scale where viruses and bacteria populate the Microverse. Or playing at tne femtometre scale where we're speaking of atom and electrons cloud. There, what is a population might become debatable

 

In the first case, it's relatively easy to picture viruses and bacteria and make all of this the population of the physiological world.

In the second case, it's much harder (to me) to picture how the Microverse could look. Plus interaction looks much more limited.

 

 

Germ fighting might make an interesting adventure at that.

 

 

The precedent-setter for imagery of miniature humans interacting with the microbiological world is the classic 1966 sci-fi film Fantastic Voyage. The novelization of the story by Isaac Asimov goes into considerable detail about the conditions that humans in this state would logically (given the story's assumptions) be dealing with.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Voyage

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060397/