Dr Archeville Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm playing a villainous character in an online/play-by-post game*, and my char is patterned fairly heavily on Tartarus, the half-demon antiques dealer of the Devil's Advocates from Arcane Adversaries (I always thought the character was very nifty; I'm also a fan of Stephen King's Needful Things). My question: how could I stat an ability to buy souls/enter into a demonic pact with some other person? This is an ability he'd have after a short trip/banishment to Hell (an excuse to spend several earned experience points). Since this is an ability a PC would be having, stats for the power are necessary, though conversely it's also not going to be as potent as a Plot Device/Origin Story type of pact (he won't be creating Ghost Riders or SABBACs, or even Ezekiel Stones, but he could make someone into a skilled architect or doctor or musician). My initial thought was a version of Transform (mortal with a soul to mortal with a tainted soul, new demon-granted abilities, and a Vulnerability [x2] to demonic effects [uncommon]). The points gained from the Limitation can be used to buy whatever new abilities the demon grants (Money, Status, increased Characteristics, powers, etc.), but when the demon comes calling it can kill (or mind control or whatever) the mortal far more easily than usual. Would this work? Is more needed? Or am I going about it completely wrong? * The system used is not HERO, but it is one I can convert things to from HERO with little difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoreBrute Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Transform is the best, but also with Physical limitation Soul belongs to Demon so must obey demon, representing all the good stuff the demon can do with it. This cover all disadvantage means the demon can basically force the character to do what ever he commands as payment to the soul. Say heals back by getting the soul back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Transform is the best, but also with Physical limitation Soul belongs to Demon so must obey demon, representing all the good stuff the demon can do with it. This cover all disadvantage means the demon can basically force the character to do what ever he commands as payment to the soul. Say heals back by getting the soul back. My thoughts as well, By making it a Physical Limitation, you eliminate things like Ego Rolls that really should not apply in this case. I would just make it an even trade by saying that the person that sells their soul gets the point value of the Limitations to use to buy Skills, Stats, whatever. You could even set it up by Package Deals: Package 1 Physical Limitation: Soul Owned by Demon 20 points. Sold my Soul Benefits : 20 points of Skills, Characteristics, etc. Package 2 Physical Limitation: Soul Owned by Demon 20 points. Physical Limitation: Working for Demon while on Earth, Subject to Demon's Orders 20 Points Sold my Soul Benefits : 30 points of Skills, Characteristics, etc. And so on: Notice that the point totals for Package 2 don't add up. Basically I think the more points you want the more screwed you should be. The Basic package just means that your soul is owned but the Demon won't be demanding constant services. You will have various side effects though, you will Detect as Evil, you may make others uncomfortable, you won't feel too good if you have to attend church for some reason, etc. However, the more points you want, the more you have to give up. Eventually you will end up nothing but a powerful puppet of the Demon that owns you. As far as what your player should pay to be able to make these deals, I would say that the GM should fix a cost based on some type of Transform. I would also say that the GM should have it set up so that this doesn't just turn into a VPP for your character. Ex: You are stuck in an elevator and the building is on fire. You get the muscular guy next to you to "Sell his Soul" right then and there, granting him 20 points of STR. Oddly enough, just what he would need to bust both of you out. KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts I know a photographer who sells his marriage out...cheap Sorry...bitterness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Transform seems like a reasonable approach, especially the extra points gained going to enhanced abilities. Note that by the rules, the granting of knowledge (and presumably Skills based on it) is supposed to be the province of Mental Transform. FWIW in the past I've used Spiritual Transform to grant Perks like Money or Fringe Benefits, or Disadvantages such as Reputation or Social Limitations. I rationalize this as "editing" the character's "karmic path." These things don't seem to fall readily into Physical or Mental categories; and I figured changing a person's relationship to the rest of society was sufficiently "spiritual." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts I would go with Spiritual Transform, too, and just say that it can give any appropriate 'benefit', since those are side effects of the real power ( taking away someone's soul, and presumably liberating mystic energy in the process ). Perhaps there should also be some kind of additional benefits for the ownership of the soul, like a heavily limited VPP that can be applied to anything on the character sheet, but only 1 character point per soul possessed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Archeville Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts This cover all disadvantage means the demon can basically force the character to do what ever he commands as payment to the soul. Say heals back by getting the soul back. Hrrmm... Healing (Trigger [killing person whose soul is owed to him]; Reduced END, Self Only)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Which raises the question: How, in mechanical terms, does a "Spiritual Transform" work? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary wonders if Spiritual Transform can turn a villain into a hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Transform vs Body or Ego, whichever is higher? Also, yes, I would say a Transform to change someone's fundamental morality, would be a Spiritual Transform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomd1969 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts While the Ultimate Mystic doesn't cover the specifics of what a pactee demon should have, it does list the Disadvantages a *pacter* does have, including the Phys Lim: Damned. The section on pacters (the title of the section is actually "Priests, Pacters, and Servants of Higher Powers") is found on pp. 11-13. I agree that it should be a Spiritual Transform to give whatever Powers, etc, that you want, but it also gives the Disads listed in TUM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Personally I'm inclined to let Spiritual Transform target the Total Points of the character - and by Total I mean not just Base Points plus Disadvantages, but including the points for all the characteristics and movement you get "for free." If I'm not mistaken, that's 146 pts. If you want to count the everyman skills and default senses and so forth, say an even 200 just for a basic person with 10 in all characteristics - 178 if they have an 8 in everything. A standard starting heroic character has 350 A standard starting superhero has 550 If we make the target number for Spiritual Transform one tenth of the total, then at the low end - the "man in the street" - it's just about as difficult as Physical or Mental. The target numbers for those are twice BOD and twice EGO, which for Average Guy are both 8, therefore making 16 the target number for Transform. For Spiritual Transform, it would be 18. For the basic character with 10 in all characteristics, 20 is his target number for every kind of transform. A heroic character nearly doubles that, and a superhero nearly triples it, for Spiritual Transform. One could argue that it should be that way - turning a superhero into a supervillain or vice versa should be a very difficult feat, and the higher the point level of a campaign the more points one can pour into a Transform power - but given that Physical and Mental Transforms don't scale up in anything like that way, I might say that in super hero games a Spiritual Transform can take a limitation for how much more difficult it is against the expected targets. Another alternative would be to set a given target number - say, 35 - and say it's the same for everyone, that all souls are created equal. Or one could simply reject the entire tripartite cosmology. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary has an attachment to dualism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Somewhere I've seen a suggestion for using PRE as the basic stat a spiritual Transform works against the same way physical and mental Transforms go against BODY and EGO, respectively. Since it's cheaper it makes such transformations at least potentially more difficult, which seems appropriate to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Interesting concept. But, I dont know if this would be an appropriate power for a "heroic" character. I do remember a thread where Batman dangling the gangster over the building edge was considered very "unheroic". So, dabbling in being a prime time shaker in the industry of "soul trading" might be right the hell out. (pun intended) Not really trying to be a downer, it just seems more a villain concept to me. (though I always thought a villain game would be fun, and this might be what you are after) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Archeville Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Interesting concept. But, I dont know if this would be an appropriate power for a "heroic" character. I do remember a thread where Batman dangling the gangster over the building edge was considered very "unheroic". So, dabbling in being a prime time shaker in the industry of "soul trading" might be right the hell out. (pun intended) Not really trying to be a downer, it just seems more a villain concept to me. (though I always thought a villain game would be fun, and this might be what you are after) As I explained in the first sentence of my original post, this is indeed for a villainous character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts Humm, the transformation option seems logical, but too cheep. I would go with the NPC aquires the enhanced characteristics/powers/skills/whatever and the offsetting disads, but I would make the PC buy each one as a follower. You have to have XP in reserve for each time you use this. Or go with the transformation, but put it on charges that do not recover. Must spend XP for a new charge each time the power is used. The GM needs to decide what the effect of not having a soul in his world is. Thread from a couple years ago on what losing ones soul means in game terms. Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Re: Buying Souls/Demonic Pacts As I explained in the first sentence of my original post' date=' this is indeed for a villainous character. [/quote'] I read the whole thing and still missed the most important word. I thought that only happened to me when I was a teenager and my mother was telling to take out the trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.