Thia Halmades Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Okay; special effects aside, I have a concept that I can't puzzle through the mechanics for. I put it to you, the assembly, to help me build this in a (if not a straight ultra-legal) rules-conforming format. The following is a flavor-lite version of what I'm doing. The SFX aren't relevant here, the core construction is what's giving me brain cramps: The Lord Captain Thia Halmades has the power, Aid END. He can place the END, for the sake of example, in a bottle. He then seals the bottle. Canonically, the Aid now begins to tick down, which isn't what I want. The objective instead: Thia places END in a bottle. Thia seals the bottle. The END in the bottle is now static; it does not tick down. Once Thia opens the bottle, he gets all of the END in the bottle. It cannot go back to the bottle, it's 'all or nothing.' Once open, it's one and done. Thia then must use the END within X time, or all of the END goes away (it, again, does not tick down 'normally,' although a ticker is on it). I've come to one conclusion, which is not to use Aid, but to use Succor, Uncontrolled. Now Succor doesn't count down; it just hangs out. The Uncontrolled would then keep it 'running,' but time is still counting off from the END used to establish it (unless Red END 0 is slapped on). Which would be: Succor END, Xd6, Uncontrolled, Focus... Trigger? When the bottle is opened? Delayed Effect? and then an end condition, "within X time from when the bottle is opened," or "until all points of END granted are consumed," i.e., Succor gives you 30 END (for purposes of the example) which you then burn through. How would YOU build it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Here's another option if you want to avoid Adjustment Powers. 4 END in a bottle: Endurance Reserve (30 END, 1 REC) (4 Active Points) - END=0 28 Drink from bottle (Naked Advantage): Power Can Draw END from Character or END Reserve (+1/4) for up to 75 Active Points of Any Ability, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (28 Active Points) - END=0 or if you remove the 0 END part: 19 Drink from bottle (Naked Advantage): Power Can Draw END from Character or END Reserve (+1/4) for up to 75 Active Points of Any Ability (19 Active Points) - END=2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle How about simply +30 END, restrainable, recovery triggered by use of drain power Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle The Lord Captain Thia Halmades has the power, Aid END. He can place the END, for the sake of example, in a bottle. He then seals the bottle. Canonically, the Aid now begins to tick down, which isn't what I want. The objective instead: Thia places END in a bottle. Thia seals the bottle. The END in the bottle is now static; it does not tick down. Once Thia opens the bottle, he gets all of the END in the bottle. It cannot go back to the bottle, it's 'all or nothing.' Once open, it's one and done. Thia then must use the END within X time, or all of the END goes away (it, again, does not tick down 'normally,' although a ticker is on it). How would YOU build it? Here's my suggestion: X END, 1 Continuing Charge lasting Y [amount of time]. The END remains "potential" indefinitely until the Charge is activated (Thia opens the bottle), and is available for use as long as the Continuing Charge is defined for, or until the END is exhausted through use. The Charge can be recovered by whatever method Thia used to put END in a bottle in the first place. How's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Naw man, you got it all backwards. Opening the Bottle triggers the use of the Aid. Until then it's just a Power waiting to happen. END In A Bottle: AID END; Focus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle If you go ghost-angel´s way, perhaps use Standard Effect since I get the impression Thia wants to KNOW how much END is in the bottle (presumambly he has filled it up with a specific amount). Standard Effect guarantees that certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle One possible issue with buying the characteristic END as a power would be that any such extra END would be reduced to 0 whenever the character was knocked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Rolling END first is just a book keeping artifact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Here's one way you might try... END IN A BOTTLE: Aid END 6d6 (60 Active Points); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Independent (-2), OAF Fragile (-1 1/4), Gestures - drink from bottle (-1/4) 60 Active 7 Real Probably not the most efficient build, but it follows the brief, and can be used by anyone. Of course, if this is an injected combat drug, you probably need two hands for the gestures, assuming it is in a hypodermic, and possibly extra time (full phase) to prepare the injection. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Is Thia Halmades the only one that can use the END, or can anyone who opens the bottle use it? Is it useful for any purpose, or only certain things? Lucius Alexander Putting a palindromedary in a klein bottle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oruncrest Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle n 7 END IN A BOTTLE: Aid END 6d6 (60 Active Points); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Independent (-2), OAF Fragile (-1 1/4), Gestures - drink from bottle (-1/4) 60 Active 7 Real Probably not the most efficient build, but it follows the brief, and can be used by anyone. QUOTE] No, no, no. That way, Thia'd have to burn 7 CP every time he needed a pick-me-up. :tsk: Personally, I think that the best way to do this would be to use a Succor END with Continuing Charges, since charges don't cost END, and you'll nly make one 'roll' while the effect will continue for as long as you wanted it, like so: 9 This Secret Compartment of my ring I fill with Thia Halmades' Super-Energy Pill!: Succor END 6d6 (standard effect: 18 points) (30 Active Points); OAF Fragile (-1 1/4), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 5 Minutes (-3/4), Gestures (-1/4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle END IN A BOTTLE: Aid END 6d6 (60 Active Points); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Independent (-2), OAF Fragile (-1 1/4), Gestures - drink from bottle (-1/4) 60 Active 7 Real Probably not the most efficient build, but it follows the brief, and can be used by anyone. No, no, no. That way, Thia'd have to burn 7 CP every time he needed a pick-me-up. :tsk: Personally, I think that the best way to do this would be to use a Succor END with Continuing Charges, since charges don't cost END, and you'll nly make one 'roll' while the effect will continue for as long as you wanted it, like so: 9 This Secret Compartment of my ring I fill with Thia Halmades' Super-Energy Pill!: Succor END 6d6 (standard effect: 18 points) (30 Active Points); OAF Fragile (-1 1/4), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 5 Minutes (-3/4), Gestures (-1/4) Exactly. The Bottle is the "Gun", as it were. The contents (charge or charges) are the "bullets". That said, I could also see a valid build using a Trigger, it just sort depends on how you want the gameplay to work. I'd see a trigger option to litterally folly the thread title, where the power allows you to actively "Fill" containers and then use them or hand them off to people as you see fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Yeah, but Aid inherently already DOES that. opening the bottle is just the SFX of activating the Aid. Worst case scenario it just needs UBO so the activation takes the bottle-possessors action. Trigger over complicates the whole ordeal IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle ................ No, no, no. That way, Thia'd have to burn 7 CP every time he needed a pick-me-up. :tsk: ..................... Yes, which would be funny. If it is the sort of game where you pay the points yourself, just remove 'independent'. Really we need to know a bit more about how this is supposed to work to do it properly, specifically how much END, how long it should last once activated, whether it just boosts current END or max END, whether it has a 'healing' effect and who can use it. There are 4 basic methods you can employ: 1. +END 2. AID 3. SUCCOR 4. HEAL 5. TRANSFORM - kidding 6. EDM - really kidding Interestingly, we discover once more how horribly under-priced succor is: cf: 20 REAL - Aid 6d6 (60 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2) with 30 REAL - Succor 8d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Minute (-1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdansky Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Aid END, Charges (and possibly Focus, fragile and gestures). Problem: Charges are incredibly limiting on Aid for the cost decrease you get (After all, one Charge nearly includes Self Only). I would allow to put "Only one person at a time (-1/2)" on it, even though that is technically pointless, but it brings the cost in line with what it does. If you want to pay 50 END to put 50 END into the bottle, go with Side Effect. There is also the "Alchemy" build: Aid 6d6, Extra Time 6 hours, Requires Ingredients, Fragile Focus (Bottle), 1 Charge, Delayed Effect a lot cheaper I really like this build: Combat Drugs: Focus, 1 Continuing Charge, Fragile (-2.75) Naked Advantage: 0 END on up to 120 AP (+1/2): 60 AP, ~14 real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle (After all' date=' one Charge nearly includes Self Only)[/quote'] Eh what?! Not even remotely true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdansky Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Eh what?! Not even remotely true. Compare: 1. Aid 6d6, Only Usable On One Person At A Time (-x?) 2. Aid 6d6 3. Aid 6d6, Self Only (RAW: -1/2 though -1 would be way more suitable) 4. Aid 6d6, 1 Charge (-2) Don't you think that [1] should be limited at -1/4 or even -1/2 if Self Only was correctly priced? 1 Charge includes that indirectly. It is one of these "If you take Armor that costs End, it is automagically nonpersistent, but if you take nonpersistend FF, it still costs END"-problems. It's not such an obvious one. Basic Aid's primary power lies in the fact that you can use it on more than one person. 1 Charge significantly reduces that power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle I'll agree 1 Charge significantly reduces the power of Aid - but it does that for EVERYTHING you put it on. 1 Charge is 1 use. That's pretty limiting for anything. But it doesn't remove the ability to use it on anyone else in the slightest. Aid's primary use is that you can use it on Other People, not just more than one person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle I'll agree 1 Charge significantly reduces the power of Aid - but it does that for EVERYTHING you put it on. ............................ Except a power that destroys the universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Except a power that destroys the universe You're assuming there's only one universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle You're assuming there's only one universe. I'm assuming there is only one THE universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle I wonder if The City is located in The Universe, or if it's in a different one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle I wonder if The City is located in The Universe' date=' or if it's in a different one.[/quote'] ...wherein lives The One Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle Oh gawd.... that was............. ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Re: If I could put END in a bottle That was The Horrible is what it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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