Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

[SteveZilla]

I had a thought about the part that says "The hammer is enchanted so that no living being can lift the hammer from the ground unless he or she is worthy".

 

If you build the Hammer as an Obvious, Accessible, Immobile Focus (-2), it is immobile -- it cannot (barring GM's Fiat) be moved. Then have the character pay the difference in cost between that build and it being built as a regular OAF as a Limitation Buyoff Power. This Power is thus the determining factor of who is worthy, and the hammer it is no longer Immobile to that character.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I'd just say it's somewhere between a Personal and Universal Focus. Whomever the GM says can use it, can use it. Least hassle.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Considering other factors I wouldn't even apply the Focus Limitation to building Mjöllnir at all. I would use Physical Manifestation or Restrainable instead and maybe a separate Naked UBO with No Conscious Control (GM fiat) to determine if someone else could borrow 'the hammer'.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I'd just say it's somewhere between a Personal and Universal Focus. Whomever the GM says can use it' date=' can use it. Least hassle. [/quote']

 

True, Personal would keep others from being able to use it, but they could still *move* it after taking it, and that is the part I want to focus on here.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Why not just let the inability to use the hammer be represented by not being able to lift it? But your way should work, even if I personally think it's overly convoluted.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Considering other factors I wouldn't even apply the Focus Limitation to building Mjöllnir at all. I would use Physical Manifestation instead and maybe a separate Naked UBO with No Conscious Control (GM fiat) to determine if someone else could borrow 'the hammer'.

 

Now this is an interesting idea -- the UBO Naked Advantage w/ NCC to simulate a Focus that some but not all others could use.

 

But what about the part where the hammer can't even be moved, much less used, unless one is "worthy"?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Why not just let the inability to use the hammer be represented by not being able to lift it? But your way should work' date=' even if I personally think it's overly convoluted.[/quote']

 

Well, It seems to me that the inability to move the hammer after wresting it from the character is a significant benefit to that character. It makes it much less likely to be taken away for a long period of time. As such, I think such a "limitation" on the hammer's Accessibility should cost the character something.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I'm not very familiar with Thor -- I take it Mjölner has been wrested from him before?

[Alibear]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

It just isn't a focus, if it can't be moved, it's a special effect of Thor's powers.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I'm not very familiar with Thor -- I take it Mjölner has been wrested from him before?

 

Though I am no expert on Thor either, I have read that it has happened, but also that it has been quite rare.

 

I had another thought. In a similar way that Iron Man's suit rarely got taken away from him can be done by buying the powers OIHID with the SFX of being a "Focus", perhaps the same could be done for Thor and his hammer...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Now this is an interesting idea -- the UBO Naked Advantage w/ NCC to simulate a Focus that some but not all others could use.

 

But what about the part where the hammer can't even be moved, much less used, unless one is "worthy"?

 

That's where not taking the Focus Limitation comes in.

 

It looks like a focus and otherwise has all the special effects of a focus but unless Odin or whoever allows it, no one else can really do anything with it.

 

Moving the hammer has actually been done I believe.

Dr. Spectrum (Green Lantern clone) from the Squadron Supreme (JLA clones) did a TK grab on the 'return bounce' of one of Thor's hammer throws and kept it from returning to him. That's why I suggested Restrainable.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Though I am no expert on Thor either, I have read that it has happened, but also that it has been quite rare.

 

I had another thought. In a similar way that Iron Man's suit rarely got taken away from him can be done by buying the powers OIHID with the SFX of being a "Focus", perhaps the same could be done for Thor and his hammer...

 

If you're modeling the character as he first appeared that's the perfect approach (OIHID for all powers, OIHID + Restrainable for hammer). He originally was very similar to Captain Marvel/SHAZAM! . He just had to have his cane/HAMMER to switch forms & he would revert back to his mortal form if separated from the hammer for more than 60 seconds.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Considering other factors I wouldn't even apply the Focus Limitation to building Mjöllnir at all. I would use Physical Manifestation or Restrainable instead and maybe a separate Naked UBO with No Conscious Control (GM fiat) to determine if someone else could borrow 'the hammer'.

 

FYI. I agree with Hyper-Man. It is not even a limitation in my mind...just a special effect of a set of powers.

[pinecone]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I had a thought about the part that says "The hammer is enchanted so that no living being can lift the hammer from the ground unless he or she is worthy".

 

If you build the Hammer as an Obvious, Accessible, Immobile Focus (-2), it is immobile -- it cannot (barring GM's Fiat) be moved. Then have the character pay the difference in cost between that build and it being built as a regular OAF as a Limitation Buyoff Power. This Power is thus the determining factor of who is worthy, and the hammer it is no longer Immobile to that character.

 

I'd buy it as OIF (Only the worthy can lift it) and call it good, it can be disarmed, but not taken away, or used against you.....close enough for me....

[JmOz]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I would just say Restrainable, OIHID is another aspect that can reasonable be added as well. For when OIHID did matter the drawback of accidental change should be included to represent him turning back into Don Blake/Eric Masterson (Different characters technicaly, but same power)

 

I would not concern myself with the UBO aspect, it has happened very rarely, even more rarely has the person got the powers of thor...

 

Some quick research the list for mainstream marvel includes

 

Awsome Android (not sure if he got the powers)

Beta Ray Bill

Captain America (steve Rogers)

Eric Masterson (Thunderstrike)

Odin

Tyr

Dargo Ktor (Future Thor)

 

In inter company crossovers with DC both Wonder Woman and Sueprman, also a couple of What Ifs...

 

I also seem to remember Thanos backed by the infinity guantlet holding (catching actualy) the hammer bu am not sure

 

So in 40 years of publication 10 charactrers or so, with one being characters designed to take over the roll for a while (Eric). This seems more like GM with interesting idea type of thing...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

re: UBO

 

I agree it's really just a flavor thing but it wouldn't be expensive at all.

 

If we start with a 100 active point Multipower for the hammer, applying UBO to the reserve would only be 25 active points. Divide that by 3 for the NCC (-2) and you have 8 real points before we even consider any of the other potential Limitations (OIHID, Restrainable, etc..)

[Spence]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I'm not very familiar with Thor -- I take it Mjölner has been wrested from him before?

 

Thor the God or Thor the comic character?

[L. Marcus]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Oh, the Marvel character -- I know all I need to know about the deity.

[Spence]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Oh' date=' the Marvel character -- I know all I need to know about the deity. [/quote']

 

Then it is pretty much up in the air whether grabbing the Hammer is easy or not. It depends on the write/author/issue. The 'Big 2" have been all over the field with their titles that you can pretty much do anything you want and it will be 'cannon' somewhere.

 

That said, I would model it after Thor the diety and let everything else fall to the wayside.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

Oh, as for the Mythical Mjölner: HKA 10d6, Ranged (+½), No Range Modifier (+½), Explosion (+½), Reduced Endurance (0 END [use END cost of STR used]; +½); 300 APts; OIF (-½); 200 RPts [0 END]

 

This might be a tad underpowered, though.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I'm not very familiar with Thor -- I take it Mjölner has been wrested from him before?

 

Though I am no expert on Thor either, I have read that it has happened, but also that it has been quite rare.

 

I had another thought. In a similar way that Iron Man's suit rarely got taken away from him can be done by buying the powers OIHID with the SFX of being a "Focus", perhaps the same could be done for Thor and his hammer...

 

If you're modeling the character as he first appeared that's the perfect approach (OIHID for all powers' date=' OIHID + Restrainable for hammer). He originally was very similar to Captain Marvel/SHAZAM! . He just had to have his cane/HAMMER to switch forms & he would revert back to his mortal form if separated from the hammer for more than 60 seconds.[/quote']

 

All good. Captain America separated him from the hammer for 60 seconds at one time (deflected it away with his shield, then kept Thor away from it). Once it was back to a walking stick it was easily moved.

 

Unliving creatures could move the hammer, hence the Awesome Android, and a crane on one occasion. Taken over by Dr. Spectrum's gemstone, Thor put the hammer down (too heavy since he was no longer worthy) and, after 60 seconds, transformed back - no gemstone to be found.

 

Of course, if you could separate him from the hammer, then move him, that denied access to the hammer. I'd probably call it OIF, as well as the 60 second OIHID trigger.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I'm pretty sure the unworthy have picked up Mjolnir before and used it. I think Red Hulk did. He was NOT worthy.

 

That makes it a matter of strength or worthiness. Of course it also makes it a matter of which author was writing Thor at the time...

 

The trouble here is that if you say to a player: have a hammer. When you are not using it no one can move it unless they are worthy, they are going to start getting ideas.

 

They are in a villain base and need to keep the vault door from closing: stick Mjolnir in the way. No one is likely to be worthy if they are part of a supervillain organisation, so they can not move it.

 

Need to stop the spaceship taking off? Leave Mjolnir on it.

 

I think Mjolnir comes at a call, but I could be wrong.

 

I'd probably build it with -1/4 restrainable - only the ludicrously strong or something mystical can keep Thor from using it, and just grabbing it isn't going to stop him calling down the lightning. On the understanding the player was not going to do anything 'clever' with the 'unliftable' thing - except, maybe, as a very occasional power trick, I'd call that sfx too.

 

OTOH I do applaud the inventiveness of the 'immobile' focus with the player paying the point difference to make it mobile. That's very clever.

[Spence]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

You could also make it a 'plot device' and not stat it at all.

 

 

 

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

I'm pretty sure the unworthy have picked up Mjolnir before and used it. I think Red Hulk did. He was NOT worthy.

 

 

The "logic" there is he got them out in space so there was no gravity so he didn't have t "lift". I don't agree but that was the logic.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Thor's Hammer, Mjöllnir

 

What about:

 

Worthiness [+0]: Worthiness is both an advantage and a limitation depending on who's writing the story. In most cases, it should be considered an advantage, as most people shouldn't be able to lift the hammer unless truly worthy or in the cause of the just. However, under the hands of GMs like Jeph Loeb, Mark Millar or Grant Morrison, it easily becomes a limitation worth almost twice the value of the advantage. As such, the worthiness advantage (especially in Thor's case) should be considered +0.