Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

[assault]

Aquaman, Hawkman and Ant-Man are just three animal-controlling superheroes. There are others.

 

My questions:

 

As a player, how would you build them?

As a GM, how would you run them?

 

In particular, Aquaman often uses his fish to do things which fish simply can't do. Is he just using "fish" as a special effect for a whole other power set? Furthermore, he doesn't just use fish, but any kind of life associated with water/the sea. He's been known to manipulate algae and sea-birds, just to name two examples of weird stuff. At the same time, if suitable critters aren't available, he's up the creek without a paddle.

 

Hawkman and Ant-Man are less cheesy, but they both still use critters. Are they just using them as a special effect, or are they using Summoning/Follower/Mind Control/whatever mechanisms on actual creatures in the environment?

 

In the latter case, how would you run this as a GM?

 

And similar questions along the same lines...

[RexMundi]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

I suppose the answer is, BUILD CONTEST!!!!! I say, 400 Point starting 6e Hawkman (My Favorite Super Hero), Aquaman (One of my Favorites), and Finally, Ant Man (Which I would only do the Hank Pym or Scott Lang versions because I despise the current Ant Man).....

 

~Rex....digs out the books....starts crunching numbers.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

Aquaman, Hawkman and Ant-Man are just three animal-controlling superheroes. There are others.

 

 

When did Hawkman start controlling animals?!?

[csyphrett]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

When did Hawkman start controlling animals?!?

 

I don't know if they cut it, but Hawkman has been able to talk to birds since the sixties as a side effect of learning the Earth's languages and history.

CES

[Escafarc]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

When did Hawkman start controlling animals?!?

 

The Thangarian version had a trained hawk. Pre-Crisis.

 

As a side note Black Canary II could also control songbirds during that same period.

[RexMundi]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

He could talk to them. Couldn't Control them though. Hawkman is a lot like Aquaman. He's actually Done, and is capable of a lot more then most Laymen Know, but only one facet of his total character, is every remembered. As for When, Roughly 1946, when Kubert was drawing him because he had the full beaked helmet then (roughly, 1946 when Hawkman was an Extra Story in The Flash. Golden Age Hawkman (cowled) pulled if off in All Star Comics a few times before that, and Silver Age Katar Hol more then a few times. Current Hawkman, avoids it because Birds like to talk about what they eat, and they small talk a lot, and are messy eaters.

 

 

~Rex

~Rex

[Cardinal]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

In particular, Aquaman often uses his fish to do things which fish simply can't do. Is he just using "fish" as a special effect for a whole other power set? Furthermore, he doesn't just use fish, but any kind of life associated with water/the sea. He's been known to manipulate algae and sea-birds, just to name two examples of weird stuff. At the same time, if suitable critters aren't available, he's up the creek without a paddle.

 

I had always assumed that it was a case of summon (only if inhabit area) + mind control. However, you make a very good point. It is probably a more elegant build to make the fish, etc. an SFX for a general power (AOE TK, Blast, etc.) with an activation roll and physical manifestation. If you fail the roll, there are no fish or other animals in the area. If someone blasts the whale they are blasting your physical manifestation.

 

Rep to you for an interesting approach to that power.

[csyphrett]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

Aquaman, Hawkman and Ant-Man are just three animal-controlling superheroes. There are others.

 

My questions:

 

As a player, how would you build them?

As a GM, how would you run them?

 

In particular, Aquaman often uses his fish to do things which fish simply can't do. Is he just using "fish" as a special effect for a whole other power set? Furthermore, he doesn't just use fish, but any kind of life associated with water/the sea. He's been known to manipulate algae and sea-birds, just to name two examples of weird stuff. At the same time, if suitable critters aren't available, he's up the creek without a paddle.

 

Hawkman and Ant-Man are less cheesy, but they both still use critters. Are they just using them as a special effect, or are they using Summoning/Follower/Mind Control/whatever mechanisms on actual creatures in the environment?

 

In the latter case, how would you run this as a GM?

 

And similar questions along the same lines...

 

They might all be using their specialities as a separate multipower, but Hawkman and Ant man can only talk to/mind control their animals. That give them their main power plus a small attack and spying power for Hawkman, and a small attack power and flight for Ant Man. Maybe summon giant ant for Ant Man which he has done in the past.

 

Aquaman has a whole brick set up plus mindcontrol/summon plus powers that can be simulated with sea life if the GM/Player wants to go that way.

 

As a GM I would look at the build and go from there.

CES

[Escafarc]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

Should be noted that Aquamans mental powers work on humans too, just that it takes alot of effort.

[RexMundi]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

Aquaman can also Swim 10,000 feet per secod, Throw a Tiger Tank, and Jump, 5-8 Stories Straight up. Pretty much ignores Heavy machine Gun Fire, has a ton of senses, is super fast since Air is less resistant then water, and Throws Polar Bears at people that tick him off. He's also shoved Oil derricks around, and knocked Uboats out of the water, not to mention the Sub Diego Shelf Bench Military Press.

 

~Rex...says Aquaman? NAY! ...Tis Aqua THE MAN!!!!

[Escafarc]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

Yes! He's not just the "Guy who talks to fish".

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

At least with Aquaman, I prefer building his ability as just Telepathy, not Mind Control. He doesn't force the marine creatures to do his bidding. Instead, he has an organizational Contact, with a high roll and Slavishly Loyal, indicating that he's the Sea King. They do his bidding because he told them to and he's their King... not because he literally compels them to.

[RexMundi]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

No he USED to actually command them, and they had him lose the command power, and it became talk to and coerce. Then, back to command, then nothing, then command, and command more, then talk to, and then command certain things while having difficulty with others. I could probably get the issue numbers if I had to heh, but that's all in the Aqua Box.

 

~Rex

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

I've always been a bit confused about what it is that Aquaman does, since my first exposure (pre-mid-sixties) was a comic wherein he had fish powers and abilities. In one scene he rescues someone from a fall by puffing up like a pufferfish and floating like a baloon (yes, the silver age was Just. That. Silly.) Nowadays I'd guess he's a deep-sea-adapted brick with a variable power pool, the SFX of which include whatever aquatic or semi-aquatic sea life happens to be handy.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

No he USED to actually command them' date=' and they had him lose the command power, and it became talk to and coerce. Then, back to command, then nothing, then command, and command more, then talk to, and then command certain things while having difficulty with others. I could probably get the issue numbers if I had to heh, but that's all in the Aqua Box.[/quote']I was really just talking about how I like to model the ability in the HERO System... not necessarily how it was presented in the comics. I agree; in the comics, it's been all over the place.

[assault]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

I'm personally mainly interested in the Silver Age version of Aquaman, where the fish powers are the core of the character, and the brick stuff was half-forgotten stuff from the Golden Age. Not coincidentally, this was Aqualad's power set in the early Teen Titans days too.

 

The brick side of things is easy to build, anyway. It's the fish powers that are challenging. That's why I started the thread.

 

The command versus talk is interesting, but I don't really think the distinction matters that much in practice. The only cases where he fails to effectively control his critters are usually when somebody else is.

 

I'm becoming convinced that combining the summon and SFX approaches might be the best. The SFX approach by itself is cheesy, while the summon effect doesn't really model the weird things he gets his critters to do. It's a bit expensive and clumsy, but I guess I can live with it.

 

For a low point homage, most of what he does could be fudged with Telekinesis, EB and/or a couple of other powers. The rest can be ignored.

 

The activation roll and physical manifestation idea is interesting. The physical manifestation bit is a definite possibility. I'm not quite so sure about the activation part - I think he usually succeeds in the sea, and usually fails on land, and it's the cases in between that are the problem. But of course that's the problem with the character - he's defined very loosely, even when you focus on a particular period of his career. (Trying to cover his whole career is completely nuts!) You can only approximate him, I'm afraid, or else say he can do anything!

 

And doing it on a budget is the really hard part.

 

For Hawkman (Golden or Silver), I'd probably be happy with him being able to talk to birds, and having a contact with them. Maybe a Follower too, at one point. Everything else can be roleplayed, and if the GM is an idiot, too bad - the character can do other things too, and it's not as central to the character as Aquaman's fish stuff. I think that's the way I'll go with him.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

The main thing I like about not having the fish command based on Mind Control is that there's no need to deal with breakout rolls...

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

Aquaman and Ant-Man probably have summon for commanding certain actions reliably. That would leave the player and/or the GM to figure out the stats and capabilities of a school of tuna or a full colony of fire ants. I seem to remember stats for insect swarms in one edition or another of the Bestiary.

 

I would not fail to purchase some combination of Mind Scanning, Telepathy and Clairsentience to model some of the less attack oriented things that could be done.

 

It would be weird to me to build a multipower or set of linked powers with Darkness, an AOE NND Blast with Indirect, and maybe some change environment to give DEX penalties and and such, and then define it as a cloud of stinging ants. YMMV.

[Twilight]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

For Hawkman I would just ignore the bird controlling powers and focus on the abilities he gains from the Nth metal in his costume, in addition to his fighting skills and leadership abilities. This is the guy who, when faced with a fleet of warships during the Rann-Thanagar war, tried to deal with the problem by flying over and hitting them with his mace and it worked! I mean seriously that's Batman levels of bad*** right there!

[RexMundi]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

For Hawkman I would just ignore the bird controlling powers and focus on the abilities he gains from the Nth metal in his costume' date=' in addition to his fighting skills and leadership abilities. This is the guy who, when faced with a fleet of warships during the Rann-Thanagar war, tried to deal with the problem by flying over and hitting them with his mace and it worked! I mean seriously that's Batman levels of bad*** right there![/quote']

 

Actually, Hawkman is one of the very few characters batman doesn't care to tangle with. He hits the short list of Bat Respect, and there are very few folks on that list. Again though, it wasn't bird control. He could talk to them, and he tries NOT to do that, heh, because birds are bird brains. As for Aquaman's physical abilities, the Silver Age is where they were highlighted the most. *Pats the Aqua Box and the Hawk Box of comics* .....

 

I'll actually see what I can build this week out of the new Rules. I think I can do a fair approximation of them, at least early career wise with 400 Points in 6e. Need to get the real work off the plate first.

 

~Rex

[Clonus]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

Pym has definitely used Physical Energy Blasts made out of insects. And a lot of what Aquaman does is Telekinesis (Only in Water)

[GoldenAge]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

Pym has definitely used Physical Energy Blasts made out of insects.

And...

Flashes v sight/hearing

NND attacks v. non-FF defenses (including bypassing armor)

Chokes

Darkness (swarms)

Dispel Mechanical Things (suicide swarms of ants into everything from helicopter turbines to computer mainframes)

Limited Clairvoyance (talking to ants about what they've seen)

Ants as messengers who can actually spell!

Flight (soaring on flying ants - everything from riding them like horses to standing and surfing 2 at a time)

Auto retrieval/escape system (ants will take him places even when unconscious or when his appendix was bursting)

Summon GIANT ANT!!! (using Pym Particles to grow ants into giants - As he did against Taskmaster)

[assault]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

For Hawkman I would just ignore the bird controlling powers

 

Blasphemy!

 

"Wheet wheet!" is part of what Hawkman is. And fun to say during a game.

[Twilight]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

Blasphemy!

 

"Wheet wheet!" is part of what Hawkman is. And fun to say during a game.

 

No Nth Metal and smashing things with a mace is what Hawkman is, as well as general bad***ery.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Aquaman, Hawkman, Ant-Man - how would you run them?

 

No Nth Metal and smashing things with a mace is what Hawkman is' date=' as well as general bad***ery.[/quote']

That's what I was thinking when I built this version of Hawkgirl as well (a hybrid of the silver-age and DCAnimated Universe versions).