Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

[rjcurrie]

Interesting announcement in Steve's weekly update:

Finishing up FH has actually led to a sort of addition to the publication schedule. As I edited back through the manuscript, I came across a lot of bits and pieces, mostly in the Skills section, that were eventually incorporated into and expanded upon in

The Ultimate Skill.

Since we have ’em in print there, my preference is to not reprint them in FH, but simply to cross-reference them. However, I don’t like to refer to 5E books, even really great ones like TUS, in a 6E genre book.

 

So the solution I came up with is this: I’m going to convert TUS to 6E. Right after I get done with the main work on FH I’m going to spend a couple days converting TUS — which will be renamed

HERO System Skills

— to 6E. I don’t anticipate this being hugely difficult; mostly it’s little things like replacing hexes/inches with meters and recalculating the costs of security devices and a few other gadgets. Skills weren’t changed much in 6E, so most of the info in TUS doesn’t need to be changed at all. The biggest challenge will be reworking the various types of Skill Levels. However, come what changes may, I’m going to make them directly to a copy of the layout file and will work it so that the pagination isn’t thrown off at all — thereby allowing me to refer to HSS by page number in FH even though it isn’t actually “written” yet.

(This has the additional benefit of saving me the work of preparing a new Table of Contents or Index, yaaaay.)

 

Initially we’ll just make HSS available as a PDF. When we sell out of TUS hardcopies (which will probably occur late this year or early next), if we want to reprint the book we’ll do so using the HSS layouts.

I'm glad to see TUS getting a 6e update, but I must admit I'm a little bit unsure about the publishing approach. While I can understand HERO wanting to move their hard copies of TUS before printing HSS, I wonder if it might be a bit confusing.

 

Still, it will be good to have an updated version of TUS.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

If the page numbers don't change - the two books will be essentially interchangeable for 90% of the material, it's probably the only resource book they could do that with.

 

Either way, the advent of PDFs makes this kind of thing possible, which is cool.

[FreeDice]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

I think it's interesting, and possibly an unfortunate side effect that under the 5E series, TUS was on the back burner until things like Ultimate Brick and so forth got printed, but under the new doctrine of expand rules before expand themes, it makes more sense to get HSS out early along with Martial Arts and Vehicles, which means that TUS and HSS will come out so close to each other (as opposed to, say Ninja Hero/TUMA, which had years before HSMA).

 

Either way, I'll be adding to my collection.

[Vondy]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

Personally, I think its perfectly logical. Leaving TUS to the end in the last production cycle, while driven by understandable development and marketing needs, and a learning curve for Steve and co., was backwards in terms of mapping information in a way that avoided unecessary duplication. In this cycle they are left with a choice: 1) reprint materials (undesirable), 2) reference a book that hasn't been published yet (off putting), or 3) publish the book to be referenced early in the new production cycle and move forward (best option, IMO). My only issue is the shifting product names. I understand the need to differentiate the 6E/5E lines. And from a contemporary zeitgeist perspective the new names are probably more fitting. But now I have to learn a new sea of acronyms to keep up with board-speak. Unhappy. I get it. I agree with it. I just don't like it.

 

This is totally off topic, but in terms of names, I'd like to see the 6E version of Ninja Hero, if there is to be one, named something else. I think the focus on ninjas is a bit narrow and overly focuses the book (and its perception) on a sub-genre. It might work better as "chanbara hero," which is broader, but even that is limited to Japan. Chanbara would probably only be one of several sections since the wuxia/chop-sockey/chinese genres would also need to be included. I guess I don't really know what it should be called. I just don't think Ninja Hero, which emerged from the 80's ninja-craze, is the best possible name.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

Personally, I think its perfectly logical. Leaving TUS to the end in the last production cycle, while driven by understandable development and marketing needs, and a learning curve for Steve and co., was backwards in terms of mapping information in a way that avoided unecessary duplication. In this cycle they are left with a choice: 1) reprint materials (undesirable), 2) reference a book that hasn't been published yet (off putting), or 3) publish the book to be referenced early in the new production cycle and move forward (best option, IMO). My only issue is the shifting product names. I understand the need to differentiate the 6E/5E lines. And from a contemporary zeitgeist perspective the new names are probably more fitting. But now I have to learn a new sea of acronyms to keep up with board-speak. Unhappy. I get it. I agree with it. I just don't like it.

 

This is totally off topic, but in terms of names, I'd like to see the 6E version of Ninja Hero, if there is to be one, named something else. I think the focus on ninjas is a bit narrow and overly focuses the book (and its perception) on a sub-genre. It might work better as "chanbara hero," which is broader, but even that is limited to Japan. Chanbara would probably only be one of several sections since the wuxia/chop-sockey/chinese genres would also need to be included. I guess I don't really know what it should be called. I just don't think Ninja Hero, which emerged from the 80's ninja-craze, is the best possible name.

 

As far as I know, there are no plans for Ninja Hero 6E. I believe Steve put the things he wanted to keep from NH 5E into HERO System Martial Arts.

[Vondy]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

As far as I know' date=' there are no plans for Ninja Hero 6E. I believe Steve put the things he wanted to keep from NH 5E into HERO System Martial Arts.[/quote']

 

Good to know.

 

I would really like to see a chanbara hero booklet. I wonder, if further down the line, it might be worthwhile to produce "genre kick start" e-booklets for genres that don't merit a full book, or printed product, but have a popular niche in the gaming world. The pulp hero adventures come to mind, though they are a little shorter than what I have in mind. In other words, produce a crunchy 24-30 page download-only booklets (.pdf) for 5-8$. If its crunchy enough (lots of packages, talents, perks, background skills, sample characters, and references to printed source books) it would have sufficient value compared to products of comparable length and might be a draw for players who like those genres to try hero out (via the basic book). Another option would be to offer one such download as an incentive to go with a purchase of the basic rules or the main 6E rule books. Sort of an "added value" and "how to" incentive for the gateway purchase.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

I'd appreciate seeing a few tweaks here and there to the Skills writeups--I'd particularly appreciate grouping all the stuff on interaction skills into one section--including the modifiers and base times for common tasks for each PRE skill, the levels of effect, etc. Actually, reordering the listings so that skills are grouped by type rather than alphabetically would help to put all the stuff about mods to DEX/INT/PRE/Combat/Background skills in their proper places(and all in one spot, at that), imo.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

I'd appreciate seeing a few tweaks here and there to the Skills writeups--I'd particularly appreciate grouping all the stuff on interaction skills into one section--including the modifiers and base times for common tasks for each PRE skill' date=' the levels of effect, etc. Actually, reordering the listings so that skills are grouped by type rather than alphabetically would help to put all the stuff about mods to DEX/INT/PRE/Combat/Background skills in their proper places(and all in one spot, at that), imo.[/quote']

 

Well, based on Steve's comments, that's not going to happen.

[JmOz]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

I would actualy like to see a free pdf of the updates, as someone else said, it will be 90% similar. I don't think it will happen, I'm not even asking for it. Just what I would like.

[Hierax]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

I'd don't know if Steve Long is reading this thread or not, or if there will be a what do you want for the 6e Skill Book thread but, FWIW, some what I'd like to see is:

 

• More Skill Value / Difficulty Value (SV/DV) like system options. Great concept but some more ways to implement it better would be great.
  

 

• More granular CSLs -- like H5e-TUS (the detail of that section was great) but even more so, different options for each point level. I was disappointed to find that 6e with the huge page count didn't include this stuff, but now with a H6e-TUS it's the perfect chance to get this and make the 6e version as good or better than the 5e version!
  

 

• More detailed/fleshed-out WF systems options.
  

 

• Some discussion about Skill Level Costs vs. Characteristic Costs and the implications of adjusting the Nature-Nurture mix of these to get the balance that you want for your own game. There's currently a strong cost incentive to go with the Natural Characteristics vs. Nurtured/Trained Skills, but the toolkit would be stronger with ways to change this balance to taste.
  

Anything that doesn't match up to the old page numbers (BTW the layout will have to be different than the other 6e books to pull the page # alignment between 5e + 6e) can be added as appendices (again me being greedy for more Hero goodness).

[Steve Long]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

This is totally off topic, but in terms of names, I'd like to see the 6E version of Ninja Hero, if there is to be one, named something else.

 

There is one -- it's called HERO System Martial Arts. That's all you're going to see on the Martial Arts genre front for 6E.

[Steve Long]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

I'd appreciate seeing a few tweaks here and there to the Skills writeups--I'd particularly appreciate grouping all the stuff on interaction skills into one section--including the modifiers and base times for common tasks for each PRE skill, the levels of effect, etc. Actually, reordering the listings so that skills are grouped by type rather than alphabetically would help to put all the stuff about mods to DEX/INT/PRE/Combat/Background skills in their proper places(and all in one spot, at that), imo.

 

Even if I agreed with this -- and in fact I couldn't disagree more strongly -- it's not going to happen. As I mentioned in the announcement, I'm doing this in such a way that the pagination won't change between TUS and HSS. Reorganizing any part of the book obviously isn't possible with that goal in mind.

[Steve Long]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

I'd don't know if Steve Long is reading this thread or not, or if there will be a what do you want for the 6e Skill Book thread but, FWIW, some what I'd like to see is:

 

More Skill Value / Difficulty Value (SV/DV) like system options. Great concept but some more ways to implement it better would be great.

More granular CSLs -- like H5e-TUS (the detail of that section was great) but even more so, different options for each point level. I was disappointed to find that 6e with the huge page count didn't include this stuff, but now with a H6e-TUS it's the perfect chance to get this and make the 6e version as good or better than the 5e version!

More detailed/fleshed-out WF systems options.

Some discussion about Skill Level Costs vs. Characteristic Costs and the implications of adjusting the Nature-Nurture mix of these to get the balance that you want for your own game. There's currently a strong cost incentive to go with the Natural Characteristics vs. Nurtured/Trained Skills, but the toolkit would be stronger with ways to change this balance to taste.

Anything that doesn't match up to the old page numbers (BTW the layout will have to be different than the other 6e books to pull the page # alignment between 5e + 6e) can be added as appendices (again me being greedy for more Hero goodness).

 

There will be no additions. There will be no appendices. There will be no WDYWTS thread. All I'm doing is a quick conversion as swiftly and easily as I can manage.

[Hierax]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

There will be no additions. There will be no appendices. There will be no WDYWTS thread. All I'm doing is a quick conversion as swiftly and easily as I can manage.

 

That's cool, but at least you've got several sweet pages to fill with CSLs, so that'll be there.

 

TUS was/is a great book having a 6e update is a great idea even if nothing else changes but moving 5e to 6e.

 

Keep on rocking those books out!

[Steve Long]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

Things that will not be in HSS include:

 

1. Weasels.

2. Pie.

3. Howler centerfold

4. Derek Hiemforth centerfold.

5. Clues to the long-lost location of the Well of Souls.

6. Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

7. Fifth of tequila.

[Steve Long]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

That's cool, but at least you've got several sweet pages to fill with CSLs, so that'll be there.

 

Yeah, figuring out how to adjust the TUS info on CSLs/PSLs/SLs is probably the only real design work the re-write entails. Hopefully it won't take that long or require layout contortionism on Fred's part.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

Yeah' date=' figuring out how to adjust the TUS info on CSLs/PSLs/SLs is probably the only real design work the re-write entails. Hopefully it won't take that long or require layout contortionism on Fred's part. [/quote']

 

There's always space for a Mentalla Centerfold if you find that there's too much free space.

 

Or, if you're feeling particularly sadistic a Takofanes Centerfold. . .

[lemming]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

So you're not wanting this sketch of Howler that has strategically placed weasels and tequila?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

Ill buy one; TUS is awesome, 6e is awesome, so a 6e TUS is therefore at least equivalent to awesome squared.

[Wizard]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

The Ultimate Skill is the only 5E book to sit among my 6E books on the bookshelf. Great to hear that it's going to get the 6E treatment .

 

Just a thought, since the page numbers are going to be kept that means we will see Charm on page 293, between Security Systems and Shadowing.

[Steve Long]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

Yup, that's where you'll see Charm for the time being, with a little sidebar footnote where it should be telling you where it actually is. If and when we need to actually print HSS, I'll have to bite the bullet and re-arrange that part of the book, but I'm not so worried about it for a (hopefully quick and easy) PDF 6E conversion thingie.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

Things that will not be in HSS include:

 

1. Weasels.

2. Pie.

3. Howler centerfold

4. Derek Hiemforth centerfold.

5. Clues to the long-lost location of the Well of Souls.

6. Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

7. Fifth of tequila.

 

Hey... you didn't say monkeys. Woohoo!

[Mister E]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

I'm a little disappointed.

 

My favorite parts of TUS were the sections in each skill description that talked about how skills interact with powers & which powers best represent skills.

 

I was hoping in 6th edition there would be a compendium of super-skills that collated all that info with the super-skills from Dark Champions, PulpHERO, and wherever else.

 

No great loss. TUS still has what it had, which is fantastically vast.

[torchwolf]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

Looking forward to the 6E TUS.

[JmOz]

Re: Interesting Announcement: HERO System Skills

 

nothing to see here