DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

[BlueCloud2k2]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Think of it in terms of Level Adjustment.

Two players are creating 8th-level characters.

Player A is creating a human. Player B is creating a Fiendish Half-Dragon Drow.

Player A can create a character with 8th-level class abilities. Player B can only create a 1st-level character.

 

In Hero System, every race essentially has a "Level Adjustment". Points that are spent on racial abilities are points that you don't have available to spend on Characteristics, Skills, and class abilities. The more racial abilities you have, the less powerful you will initially be in other areas. Conversely, the less racial abilities you have, the more powerful you will initially be in other areas.

 

And Player A's character can get in a battle with a creature that has a CR of 8 and have a reasonable chance of survival (assuming he has 3 other level 8 characters with him). All Player B has is a reasonable chance of dying in the first round of combat if the CR 8 baddie goes after him. I've seen this happen so many times I stopped allowing Monsters as Races in D&D all together.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Back again to finish up. On the subject of Templates:

 

In addition to the various Race and Profession Packages I offer, I also present what I call

Character Templates.

 

Templates are merely a combination of a Race Package and one or more Profession Packages which together model some common concept.

"This document provides ready made Character Templates combining Race and Class Packages in various ways to make useful PC's and NPC's both.

WHAT THEY ARE NOT

These are not classes or straightjackets. They are not required or even encouraged for use in making characters.

WHAT THEY ARE

These Templates are ready as-is for characters starting play if using the default High Fantasy assumptions presented on this site, needing only the personalizing additions of Disadvantages, backgrounds, and equipment. They can also serve merely as starting points to be tweaked / modified from as desired. They can serve as examples / benchmarks for what starting level characters might look like. They can also be used as-is for quick / stock NPC's. They are 100% optional.

"

 

 

This is just a side show really; I don't put much focus on them through out the material. I do use them (the ones defined and others) when making up NPC's for my campaign, however. I'm just pointing out that it is a very useful option, especially for GM's in a hurry.

 

They can be used as pre-gens as well with the addition of roleplaying aspects (name, personality, background) and personal Disadvantages. Four examples of such characters are provided, demonstrating how complete characters can be quickly assembled just by stacking Packages and filling in the gaps.

[Markdoc]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Which helps explain why the elf has PS: Lute at 18- and not much else.

 

Or maybe, he used to have PS: Lute 18- 120 years ago, but having never touched a lute in the 12 decades since he got bored with it, he now has no lute skill at all.

 

To me it's a common fallacy that Elves (or in Supers games, immortals) should have this huge list of skills. In reality, unless they also have perfect recall, and utterly inhuman memories, much of what they once knew, they've probably forgotten. For humans, at least, I have noticed that most skills get pretty rusty after only a decade of disuse. My memory is still pretty damn good - relatively speaking - but I have forgotten virtually all of the Latin I learned at school, much of the basic chemistry I used at University, pretty much all the Portuguese I learned in my early 30's, etc and a ton of other stuff. When I look at photos from my class in primary school, I am lucky if I can recall the names of much over half the class - and I spent several years together with those kids. The only ones I recall for sure are my particular friends and my enemies. And that's after only 4 decades. How much of that would I recall (if my brain didn't deteriorate from age) in another 4 decades? Damn little, I am guessing.

 

The same goes for things like AK. I've done the thing where you go back to a place you used to know well - and find you can barely find your way around. Things have changed. Even things that haven't changed are often not where you expect them, because while you remember some specific places, your memory has excised the boring un-memorable bits in between.

 

So for me, the easiest way to simulate this is to give the immortal (or merely very old) a few slots in cramming, with the proviso that they can be used for things recalled. It gives the immortal a vast range of Fam.s they can acquire, which better (IMO) reflects the "Oh yeah, I remember that .. now how did it go again?" or "Well, I'm pretty sure it's around here somewhere..." It means they can be half-ass about all sorts of things, but they'll only be good at the things they regularly practice.

 

cheers, Mark

[Susano]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Or maybe, he used to have PS: Lute 18- 120 years ago, but having never touched a lute in the 12 decades since he got bored with it, he now has no lute skill at all.

 

To me it's a common fallacy that Elves (or in Supers games, immortals) should have this huge list of skills. In reality, unless they also have perfect recall, and utterly inhuman memories, much of what they once knew, they've probably forgotten.

 

This may be a side effect of Tolkien's elves, who were pretty damn impressive with regards to their physical skills. After all, Elrond recalls events from 3,000 years ago.

[BlueCloud2k2]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Or maybe, he used to have PS: Lute 18- 120 years ago, but having never touched a lute in the 12 decades since he got bored with it, he now has no lute skill at all.

 

To me it's a common fallacy that Elves (or in Supers games, immortals) should have this huge list of skills. In reality, unless they also have perfect recall, and utterly inhuman memories, much of what they once knew, they've probably forgotten. For humans, at least, I have noticed that most skills get pretty rusty after only a decade of disuse. My memory is still pretty damn good - relatively speaking - but I have forgotten virtually all of the Latin I learned at school, much of the basic chemistry I used at University, pretty much all the Portuguese I learned in my early 30's, etc and a ton of other stuff. When I look at photos from my class in primary school, I am lucky if I can recall the names of much over half the class - and I spent several years together with those kids. The only ones I recall for sure are my particular friends and my enemies. And that's after only 4 decades. How much of that would I recall (if my brain didn't deteriorate from age) in another 4 decades? Damn little, I am guessing.

 

The same goes for things like AK. I've done the thing where you go back to a place you used to know well - and find you can barely find your way around. Things have changed. Even things that haven't changed are often not where you expect them, because while you remember some specific places, your memory has excised the boring un-memorable bits in between.

 

So for me, the easiest way to simulate this is to give the immortal (or merely very old) a few slots in cramming, with the proviso that they can be used for things recalled. It gives the immortal a vast range of Fam.s they can acquire, which better (IMO) reflects the "Oh yeah, I remember that .. now how did it go again?" or "Well, I'm pretty sure it's around here somewhere..." It means they can be half-ass about all sorts of things, but they'll only be good at the things they regularly practice.

 

cheers, Mark

 

Good idea and Repped!

 

This may be a side effect of Tolkien's elves' date=' who were pretty damn impressive with regards to their physical skills. After all, Elrond recalls events from 3,000 years ago.[/quote']

 

Yeah... I always thought that having that much recollection without resorting to written records was a little suspect. It always seemed to me that Elrond should have recognized Bilbo's ring when he first brought it to Rivendale.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Yeah... I always thought that having that much recollection without resorting to written records was a little suspect. It always seemed to me that Elrond should have recognized Bilbo's ring when he first brought it to Rivendale.

Why? It was just a plain gold ring to look at, since it wasn't trying to get attention or doing much of anything.

[Markdoc]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Why? It was just a plain gold ring to look at' date=' since it wasn't trying to get attention or doing much of anything.[/quote']

 

Yeah, it was an IIF.

 

cheers, Mark

[whitekeys]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Inaccessible? lol

[Markdoc]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

This may be a side effect of Tolkien's elves' date=' who were pretty damn impressive with regards to their physical skills. After all, Elrond recalls events from 3,000 years ago.[/quote']

 

Sure, but that doesn't mean he recalls everything for the last 3000 years. I recall getting run down by a car when I was ten pretty damn vividly (it was at the Kensington Intersection, I got hit by a Black Morris, I was going to buy fish and chips, the driver was a middle aged woman, it was raining, I was riding a gold raleigh 20) but I honestly don't recall very much else from that year - a few fragments here and there which may or may not even be from that year.

 

I'm guessing being in a war against ultimate evil where the Gods eventually turn up would leave some lasting memories, so it's maybe not surprising that Elrond remembers it.

 

Indeed, it is suggested that his memories may be a bit fuzzy after all that time - after the attack on Earendil for the Silmarillion, some stories say that Feanor's son Maglor took pity on Elrond and Elwing and spared their lives, fostering them for a time, though according to another story the twins were left by their captors in a cave behind a waterfall where they were later found safe and sound. Since Elrond was there and a historian, you'd expect that he could have cleared that up!

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Inaccessible? lol

 

Yeah, Gollum clearly couldn't get it with just a grab - he had to bite Frodo's finger off to get it.

 

cheers, Mark

[megaplayboy]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

I tend to think of D&D conversions as "base points + x points per class level/hit die", where "x" is some number from 10 to 25, and base points are somewhere between 25 and 150. This range can lead to extremes, such as a 10th level fighter who's "only" 275 points, or a 10th level [insert munchkin race and class designations] who's 400 points. After doing an initial conversion of characters, my advice would be to diverge as quickly as makes sense, just doing enough to capture the "feel" or "spirit" of D&D setting and mechanics without binding yourself to it.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

And when it's in his pocket, it's inaccessible except for a pick-pocket style skill roll.

[Susano]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Heck, not even Gandalf knew what it was, because Tolkien himself hadn't decided what it was.

[BlueCloud2k2]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

I tend to think of D&D conversions as "base points + x points per class level/hit die"' date=' where "x" is some number from 10 to 25, and base points are somewhere between 25 and 150. This range can lead to extremes, such as a 10th level fighter who's "only" 275 points, or a 10th level [insert munchkin race and class designations'] who's 400 points. After doing an initial conversion of characters, my advice would be to diverge as quickly as makes sense, just doing enough to capture the "feel" or "spirit" of D&D setting and mechanics without binding yourself to it.

 

Especially with certain mechanics such as Evasion or Spell Resistance (I'm thinking of making Spell Resistance work so it is just Magical Damage Reduction... that or extra Defenses applicable only to Magic effects. Not sure yet). I'm buying Fantasy HERO soon so I'll read over that and see what my options are. And a friend of mine is buying me the Bestiary as a belated wedding gift (he and his wife got my wife a Unicorn Silhouette for our front yard - I had a choice between a book or a videogame )

 

My main reason for wanting to convert things over to begin with is if I run a game, it is going to be HERO system. I've run D&D 3.5 for over 4 years and I hate it with a passion. I'm living in a new town and have new friends who are actually open minded enough to try something new. They want to play D&D. I wanted to run Champions since I've already got the books for that. So we're compromising - I'm converting D&D Source Material to the HERO System.

 

Once I have Fantasy HERO and the Bestiary, myself, my wife and a few friends are going to do some general play-testing using Killer Shrike's work as a foundation. My wife has played Champions with me when we were going to college, and all but one of the rest of my friends have played D&D since at least 2nd Edition. The odd-duck out started playing WoW when she saw her husband playing it, and has decided to give this a try as well (mostly because we explained D&D is kinda-sorta a PnP version of WoW where you actually get to see who you are raiding with).

 

Another reason I'm doing the conversion is that there are monsters and abilities from other genres I wish to incorporate. And then there is custom-generated content.

[mayapuppies]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

This still leads to the logic hole that states that an elf with hundreds of years of life experience has fewer skills available to her than a human teenager. It may be necessary for game balance (unless the entire party are elves) but it isn't logical.

I actually made sure that all starting characters are around the same age to avoid this problem. In my game worlds, all races age the same until they hit their teens, at which point, those who have lengthier lifespans slow way down.

 

This avoids the logic whole that I've always had in other games where the age and skill level just didn't match at all.

[whitekeys]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Here's a question about the conversion: Everyone knows that, especially in 3.5, the power balance between melee classes and mage classes. The mantra in my game group goes something like this: "The game breaks at 15."

 

How do you think these issues are changed in the Hero system? With the experience point system is it difficult for mages to acquire 'high level' spells while the meat-shield is just pumping points into BODY and STR? Or perhaps it's still in favour of mages due to charactistic maxima. What do you think? And how do you deal with realism problem in giving experience points?

[megaplayboy]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Here's a question about the conversion: Everyone knows that, especially in 3.5, the power balance between melee classes and mage classes. The mantra in my game group goes something like this: "The game breaks at 15."

 

How do you think these issues are changed in the Hero system? With the experience point system is it difficult for mages to acquire 'high level' spells while the meat-shield is just pumping points into BODY and STR? Or perhaps it's still in favour of mages due to charactistic maxima. What do you think? And how do you deal with realism problem in giving experience points?

 

I'd suggest giving the warrior some power-like talents and skills, to enable them to do a bit more(swinging their mighty blade through 3 opponents at a time, buying combat luck to allow them to avoid the brunt of a fireball, leaping from rock to rock, etc.). Perks are another great way to spend xp--followers, rank, wealth, contacts and favors, etc. Another thing is to allow them to buy a few permanent magic items to offset the plethora of spells in the mage's growing arsenal. Fantasy Hero doesn't have to "break" at a particular point level...in theory, characters should remain balanced, so long as their points and overall combat ability remains similar.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

...

 

How do you think these issues are changed in the Hero system? With the experience point system is it difficult for mages to acquire 'high level' spells while the meat-shield is just pumping points into BODY and STR? Or perhaps it's still in favour of mages due to charactistic maxima. What do you think? And how do you deal with realism problem in giving experience points?

 

High level D&D Fighters do not necessarily have that much more BODY than a starting character when translated into HERO. High Hit Points are usually represented by a suite of abilities (Combat Luck, Damage Reduction, CSL's, etc...)

[megaplayboy]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Combat luck plus damage reduction plus levels = a lot of survivability.

 

You could have a character who technically has 30 total defense, 20 of it resistant, plus half reduction, and a ton of levels applicable to DCV. They could also have 15-30 body and 40-60 stun and basically be a frickin' tank who's extremely hard to kill. 15+ level D&D characters are akin to low to mid-level superheroes, in terms of their toughness and capabilities. Epic level D&D characters(21-50 levels) probably approach legendary/epic/cosmic superhero status in some ways.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

Combat luck plus damage reduction plus levels = a lot of survivability.

 

You could have a character who technically has 30 total defense, 20 of it resistant, plus half reduction, and a ton of levels applicable to DCV. They could also have 15-30 body and 40-60 stun and basically be a frickin' tank who's extremely hard to kill. 15+ level D&D characters are akin to low to mid-level superheroes, in terms of their toughness and capabilities. Epic level D&D characters(21-50 levels) probably approach legendary/epic/cosmic superhero status in some ways.

...Approach? A 15th-level Fighter can survive *Orbital Re-entry* by RAW. Given some time, I can probably re-find the calculations I did.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

If you check out some of the material on my site, there are several high level fighters converted over directly from D&D supplements. They are quite powerful.

 

 

In the HERO System everything is defined in mechanical terms. The "shtick", or SFX as we call it, that describes or justifies the mechanics is immaterial.

 

Magic using characters buy abilities and call it "spells" or "magic". Non-magic using characters buy abilities and call it "skills" or "technique".

 

The only restrictions are those the GM chooses to enforce or impose.

 

 

 

Here's a list of over a hundred Fantasy characters up and down the point scale, many of which are non-magic users:

 

Fantasy Characters

[BlueCloud2k2]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

...Approach? A 15th-level Fighter can survive *Orbital Re-entry* by RAW. Given some time' date=' I can probably re-find the calculations I did.[/quote']

 

*snort*

 

Would love to see that.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

...Approach? A 15th-level Fighter can survive *Orbital Re-entry* by RAW. Given some time' date=' I can probably re-find the calculations I did.[/quote']

 

Are we talking about magic items or just Combat specific abilities (like Combat Luck)? If the latter I doubt most GM's would let them apply to such a situation. Brock Samson be damned, in a halfway serious campaign setting, no human, no matter how tough is going to survive re-entry.

[randian]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

And Player A's character can get in a battle with a creature that has a CR of 8 and have a reasonable chance of survival (assuming he has 3 other level 8 characters with him). All Player B has is a reasonable chance of dying in the first round of combat if the CR 8 baddie goes after him. I've seen this happen so many times I stopped allowing Monsters as Races in D&D all together.

That's an artifact of 3 things:

 

1) WotC deliberately overpriced +LA templates. Multiple templates compounded the problem.

2) The benefits of LA were fixed, but the cost was variable. What cost you 1000xp at 2nd level is now costing you 25,000 xp at 10th.

3) The benefits were fixed, so what is fun or even overpowered at 2nd level is mundane and trivial (and thus hardly worth the xp) at 10th or 15th.

 

Nonstandard abilities should have been given a fixed xp cost. Then as you level you are given the opportunity to pay the fixed cost again to gain another increment of the ability. That's not very D&Dish, though. It's rather more like Hero

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: DnD 3.5 to HERO 5e Conversion

 

*snort*

 

Would love to see that.

I apologize; the calcs I did were for 20th-level. A 13th-level Fighter can just survive terminal velocity; the GP needed for the fire resistant items, given the DMG spending caps, comes to 20th-level.

It's mixed in with other calculations, but you can pick the information up in these two threads:

 

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=3843335&postcount=2439

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=3843722&postcount=2447

 

Are we talking about magic items or just Combat specific abilities (like Combat Luck)? If the latter I doubt most GM's would let them apply to such a situation. Brock Samson be damned' date=' in a halfway serious campaign setting, no human, no matter how tough is going to survive re-entry.[/quote']

D&D, by RAW, is normal to street to cosmic supers.

 

The only argument I've ever gotten back on that one is "it's ridiculous!", which is a poor argument - An opinion given as fact.