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WWE Snark-Free Zone


Psybolt

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Yeah, I stand corrected. It's 18-0 at this point. Damn, I need to change my screen-name. On a semi-related note, looks like Sting is coming back to TNA this Thursday. Which is awesome, except that they're using exactly the same kind of promo the WWE did with Undertaker's 2-21-11 return. Hey, remember back when TNA tried to be different from WWE? You know, before Hogan came along?

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Yeah' date=' I stand corrected. It's 18-0 at this point. Damn, I need to change my screen-name. On a semi-related note, looks like Sting is coming back to TNA this Thursday. Which is awesome, except that they're using exactly the same kind of promo the WWE did with Undertaker's 2-21-11 return. Hey, remember back when TNA tried to be [i']different [/i]from WWE? You know, before Hogan came along?

 

Actually, I thought the promo was pretty damn clever. Right after the first 2-21-11 promo almost all of the internet sites were filled with comments about how it was clearly a promo for Sting's arrival. Even people who write for the sites were saying it was a promo for Sting. And while I thought the return was done well, that was mainly due to HHH rather than the returning Undertaker. So the 3-3-11 promo is poking fun at the wrestling fans who "knew" TNA had lost Sting, as well as the WWE for not getting Sting and using some of the old "Sting WCW" imagery for the first 2-21-11 promo. Some people still believe Sting was the original plan for those promos, but I doubt it. I am pretty sure the Undertaker has gotten these types of promos for most of his recent returns.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Actually' date=' I thought the promo was pretty damn clever. Right after the first 2-21-11 promo almost all of the internet sites were filled with comments about how it was clearly a promo for Sting's arrival. Even people who write for the sites were saying it was a promo for Sting. And while I thought the return was done well, that was mainly due to HHH rather than the returning Undertaker. So the 3-3-11 promo is poking fun at the wrestling fans who "knew" TNA had lost Sting, as well as the WWE for not getting Sting and using some of the old "Sting WCW" imagery for the first 2-21-11 promo. Some people still believe Sting was the original plan for those promos, but I doubt it. I am pretty sure the Undertaker has gotten these types of promos for most of his recent returns.[/quote']

 

I disagree. It would be one thing if they were doing this as a way of poking fun at the WWE. Even then, it would be just one more way that they try to hump back off the WWE. They should simply ignore the WWE and do their own business.

 

What made it worse was that the promo was promoted as the "Most Shocking Surprise of the Year". Just their typical "Things will never be the same" type of event that happens with them every few weeks. Sting in TNA is not surprising. It is just the same old business.

 

And if TNA was poking fun at wrestling fans... well, that is pretty dumb as well.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

I just read the book "Undisputed" by Chris Jericho it is very good. He tells stories from WWE and his rockband however its mostly wrestling and meeting celebrities stories. For hard core wrestling fans there is also his thoughts about benoit, a blow by blow first hand story about the time he fought Goldberg and a lot of insight into how the WWE works. Its a funny well written story of his life. I recommend it.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

I disagree. It would be one thing if they were doing this as a way of poking fun at the WWE. Even then, it would be just one more way that they try to hump back off the WWE. They should simply ignore the WWE and do their own business.

 

What made it worse was that the promo was promoted as the "Most Shocking Surprise of the Year". Just their typical "Things will never be the same" type of event that happens with them every few weeks. Sting in TNA is not surprising. It is just the same old business.

 

And if TNA was poking fun at wrestling fans... well, that is pretty dumb as well.

 

See, I remember the WWE vs WCW days. BOTH companies did this all the time. It was not the reason either company won or lost that war and I always thought it was usually entertaining. I think it would be silly to pretend the competition did not exist. And WWE STILL pokes fun at TNA and other companies from time to time. Watch the CM Punk bit when he was up on top of the set about a month ago. He was clearly talking about the then TNA champ Jeff Hardy with the whole "Who would be dumb enough to jump off something like this?" stuff. Also during the first season of NXT, Cole and others ripped the idea of Daniel Bryan being some darling from the indies. The WWE made him have a long losing streak to start his WWE career and mocked the "indy scene" the whole time. Did fans really not know they were mainly talking about ROH?

 

And the 3-3-11 promo was about the same as the promo for Undertaker in the "big surprise" thing as well. WWE played these little promos as if some mystery man was coming, and it was Undertaker...again. And I heard no big outcry for it being ridiculous to have that be the surprise behind the promos. TNA did not hide who it was. Everyone knew it would be Sting. I am thinking the whole "shocking surprise" was also tongue in cheek. Simply put, it was funny, it was sarcastic and it took all of 1 minute of a 2 hour show. TNA has a lot of issues, but this promo is not even close to being one of them. It is something people who already dislike the company jump on and pretend WWE doesn't do the same stuff.

 

As far as poking fun at internet fans, go back and watch the first season of NXT. The WWE made fun of those same fans for almost an entire season. Again, I heard no major griping then. Now that it is TNA, it's a dumb thing to do? I think if you are a fan of wrestling (or a gamer for that mater) you have to be able to laugh at yourself considering most of the rest of society does. I think both TNA and WWE recognize that as well.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

See, I remember the WWE vs WCW days. BOTH companies did this all the time. It was not the reason either company won or lost that war and I always thought it was usually entertaining. I think it would be silly to pretend the competition did not exist. And WWE STILL pokes fun at TNA and other companies from time to time. Watch the CM Punk bit when he was up on top of the set about a month ago. He was clearly talking about the then TNA champ Jeff Hardy with the whole "Who would be dumb enough to jump off something like this?" stuff. Also during the first season of NXT, Cole and others ripped the idea of Daniel Bryan being some darling from the indies. The WWE made him have a long losing streak to start his WWE career and mocked the "indy scene" the whole time. Did fans really not know they were mainly talking about ROH?

 

And the 3-3-11 promo was about the same as the promo for Undertaker in the "big surprise" thing as well. WWE played these little promos as if some mystery man was coming, and it was Undertaker...again. And I heard no big outcry for it being ridiculous to have that be the surprise behind the promos. TNA did not hide who it was. Everyone knew it would be Sting. I am thinking the whole "shocking surprise" was also tongue in cheek. Simply put, it was funny, it was sarcastic and it took all of 1 minute of a 2 hour show. TNA has a lot of issues, but this promo is not even close to being one of them. It is something people who already dislike the company jump on and pretend WWE doesn't do the same stuff.

 

As far as poking fun at internet fans, go back and watch the first season of NXT. The WWE made fun of those same fans for almost an entire season. Again, I heard no major griping then. Now that it is TNA, it's a dumb thing to do? I think if you are a fan of wrestling (or a gamer for that mater) you have to be able to laugh at yourself considering most of the rest of society does. I think both TNA and WWE recognize that as well.

 

Hm. Let's take this one point at a time.

 

First, in the old Monday Night Wars, I do remember the WWE doing the Turner skits, and every once in a while taking a veiled verbal poke at WCW. Usually it was something about age. But they rarely come right out and copied something the competition did... a week later. And to call it a spoof... well, that just does not work either. A spoof is funny. And tongue in cheek... well, it seems like a lot of fans didn't take it that way. This was just trying to capitalize on the WWE success with the 2-21-11 video. And the TNA fans responded with a lot of anger at it. if some of the tweets and posts are any indication.

 

CM Punk could have easily been talking about Shane McMahon. He jumped off the Titan Tron as well. Was he referring to Hardy? Probably. Now if he had painted his face and dressed up in tight colorful shirts with watered down hair when he did the routine, then that would be similar to 3-3-11.

 

Now, as for NXT... they called Daniel Bryan an "Internet" darling more than "Indy" darling. And the losing streak to start his WWE career? Who cares? That meant nothing. He was a star at the end of NXT, thanks to his "feud" with Michael Cole. If there wasn't the unfortunately silly "tie" issue, he'd be farther along. Even now, Bryan was listed as the company's 2nd biggest new star for the coming year behind ADR. As for ROH, I don't think the WWE spends any time thinking about them.

 

And the Undertaker not being a shock... well, that is true. The first promo was very uncertain. Each week it became more and more clear that it was the Undertaker. And yet they provided a huge moment when HHH interrupted the return and had a face off with Taker. Plus, the announcers or the owner never tweeted that this was the most shocking moment of the year. In fact, the WWE announcers never even made a single comment about the 2-21-11 videos.

 

So in the end, I agree that the WWE does make some remarks veiled toward the other companies. But you have to be a "smart" to realize them. How many times have the words WWE, Vince or up north been used on TNA? Heck, they did a whole angle around the WWE Hall of Fame. All I said is that TNA should stop thinking about, worrying about, imitating, trying to be the WWE and they should be themselves. Until they do, they will never be successful. And that would be a shame, because they have a lot of great performers.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Hm. Let's take this one point at a time.

 

First, in the old Monday Night Wars, I do remember the WWE doing the Turner skits, and every once in a while taking a veiled verbal poke at WCW. Usually it was something about age. But they rarely come right out and copied something the competition did... a week later. And to call it a spoof... well, that just does not work either. A spoof is funny. And tongue in cheek... well, it seems like a lot of fans didn't take it that way. This was just trying to capitalize on the WWE success with the 2-21-11 video. And the TNA fans responded with a lot of anger at it. if some of the tweets and posts are any indication.

 

Your memory of those days are very different than mine. I seem to remember them referencing things that happened in the "other show" during their skits about Turner, Hogan, Macho Man (I mean Nacho Man who for some odd reason talked about Slim Jims; a clear reference to what he was doing at the time) and others. I also remember DX actually doing an entire invasion skit from right outside of a WCW event. And again, I did find it funny and very tongue in cheek as do others I know. Just because some didn't get it, does not mean it wasn't a spoof. Sometimes a spoof can be a bit too spot on and lose some people. I think this is what happened here.

 

CM Punk could have easily been talking about Shane McMahon. He jumped off the Titan Tron as well. Was he referring to Hardy? Probably. Now if he had painted his face and dressed up in tight colorful shirts with watered down hair when he did the routine, then that would be similar to 3-3-11.

 

Now, as for NXT... they called Daniel Bryan an "Internet" darling more than "Indy" darling. And the losing streak to start his WWE career? Who cares? That meant nothing. He was a star at the end of NXT, thanks to his "feud" with Michael Cole. If there wasn't the unfortunately silly "tie" issue, he'd be farther along. Even now, Bryan was listed as the company's 2nd biggest new star for the coming year behind ADR. As for ROH, I don't think the WWE spends any time thinking about them.

 

So then it was the degree of mockery you didn't like? Or was it the timing? I am just not sure anymore. The CM Punk stuff was pretty obvious I thought. Just as calling Brian Danielson Daniel Bryan and having him the butt of several jokes for the first month of NXT was pretty clear too. I remember not just Cole and Miz making fun of him, but others as well. Cole only became the "bad guy" when it was clear the fans were on Bryan's side. At first the other announcer was very wishy washy about the stuff Cole was saying and even agreed sometimes, but once WWE realized folks HATED what Cole was doinge Matt Striker finally started insulting Cole. And it is pretty extreme speculation that without the tie incident he would be further ahead. I would point out that no other member of Nexus besides Wade Barrett has done much of anything of note. It appears from what has happened to everyone else in Nexus that Bryan caught a pretty lucky break by splitting from the group. Again, they clearly know ROH. If McMahon knos anything about wrestling, it is keep an eye on the entire product. He has been doing it since back in the 70's and I doubt he stopped after the 90's. The man knows his business.

 

And the Undertaker not being a shock... well, that is true. The first promo was very uncertain. Each week it became more and more clear that it was the Undertaker. And yet they provided a huge moment when HHH interrupted the return and had a face off with Taker. Plus, the announcers or the owner never tweeted that this was the most shocking moment of the year. In fact, the WWE announcers never even made a single comment about the 2-21-11 videos.

 

So in the end, I agree that the WWE does make some remarks veiled toward the other companies. But you have to be a "smart" to realize them. How many times have the words WWE, Vince or up north been used on TNA? Heck, they did a whole angle around the WWE Hall of Fame. All I said is that TNA should stop thinking about, worrying about, imitating, trying to be the WWE and they should be themselves. Until they do, they will never be successful. And that would be a shame, because they have a lot of great performers.

 

And what the announcers or owner tweeted about the Undertaker promos is not really the point. The point is that WWE has in the recent past done some of the same types of stuff. As I said with Punk and Bryan, and even the 2-11-11 promo and you don't have to be a "smart" to get a lot of it (like the Bryan stuff and the Punk stuff). They used some of the same imagery for those promos as was used in the old WCW Sting promos which is what lead to so many people thinking it was Sting (the long coat didn't help) and to some STILL thinking it was going to be Sting but the deal fell through (not me, but it has been said.)

 

Poking fun at the competition has a long history in wrestling. WWE/WWF did it, WCW did it, NWA did it, WCCW did it. I am sure it was done before that even. Why so many feel this is somehow "different" and "wrong" I just don't get. And again saying TNA is "worrying about/trying to be WWE" with a 1 minute promo at the end of a 2 hour show is pushing it a bit, don't you think?

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

"Just as calling Brian Danielson Daniel Bryan"

 

The name change has absolutely nothing to do with ROH or any other wrestling organization. They change wrestlers names so they can own the rights completely. That has nothing to do with it.

 

And again saying TNA is "worrying about/trying to be WWE" with a 1 minute promo at the end of a 2 hour show is pushing it a bit, don't you think?

 

Actually, I think it is just one more piece of evidence. From devaluing its formerly successful Knockouts, to signing all these former WWE guys and pushing them ahead of the originals, and with the backstage skits... instead of focusing on their own talent (X Division, KO, etc) that made them an alternative.

 

At first the other announcer was very wishy washy about the stuff Cole was saying and even agreed sometimes, but once WWE realized folks HATED what Cole was doing Matt Striker finally started insulting Cole

 

I don't believe that the WWE cared one bit if the Internet hated this. The Miz did, as the Internet was up in arms about Bryan having Miz as a pro. The WWE took that and ran with it. In fact, this is the origin of Cole as bad guy.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

I know they change names all the time, but in this case they made the new name so incredibly close to the old one which they don't usually do. Clearly here they did it to play off his "indy/internet (ROH)" background since they even made it a point during the show over and over again.

 

And as I pointed out, the WWE does this stuff as well. They have in the past and I am 100% sure they will in the future. So when Punk makes reference to Hardy, or DX "invades" the competition, or make they an entire "era" based around another company (ECW), or they suddenly have a new weight class when another company is having success with "cruiserweights", or they name a guy his old name reversed and bring up his past and have him lose a ton to put over the fact that the "other shows" guys are not nearly as good as our guys, how is it different? I would also point out I have no problems with WWE doing this stuff. They did it more in the past when the competition was fiercer, and if any company gets close I am sure they will do it more again. Doing these things has usually made the product better while the times when they have had no real competition tended to be stagnant. But do it they do. Plain and simple.

 

And I agree that the whole NXT Bryan stuff was the origin of Cole turning bad guy (and even said so in my post), but I do not believe for one second Miz did all that without approval from the bosses. And I did not say internet, I said fans (live audience included) hated the stuff and loved Bryan. WWE clearly adjusted how the announce team reacted to that after a few weeks. Striker went from only somewhat disagreeing with Cole to outright hostility and Cole's hostility became more intense. WWE (especially with a new show) pays attention to what the audience reacts to and will change to fit that. And again, good for them, but it is clear they knew what the fans (both live and internet) were reacting to. It wasn't just Miz.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

I think in the end, Vince McMahon is a genius juggernaut in his industry and a force of nature that won't be stopped when it comes to keeping his product alive. That being said I still don't agree with some of the choices the companies made over the last few years but some of the long term logic for it seems to be clicking into place.

 

Also, am I wrong, as much as I can't stand either Cena nor the Miz, to say their Tag match the other night was pretty dang good? Should be some interesting tiems to come even if I do have to sit thorugh a HHH Undertaker match for Wrestlemania. I think, we'll see maybe, 5 wrestling moves from Taker, 2 from HHH, three is you count spraying water out of your mouth as a wrestling move. Was hoping for better and while I have seen Vince take stuff that I really didn't want and turn it into something freaking entertaining to watch, this Wrestlemania smells more like a HHH and Steph thing then a Vince thing.

 

So remains to be seen. Fortunently there are a lot of bars around here that show the pay per view so I can toss 5 bucks at the door for cover and drink beer and play pool while the yawn fest material is on then see if the good stuff is actually worth the door price, heh.

 

TNA, still disappointed me with their "They are Coming" skit, but, it's interesting to see that while Mr. Anderson (who was serverly wasted as talent while he was Mr. Kennedy (But started going over hugely) over in the WWE but alas, fell prey to HHH in the politics of the job) was on the road to Champ, Ratings climbed, got the gig, Rating climbed, then Lost it, Ratings dropped, and continue to do so. Not sure what TNA is really going to do since they seem to be stuck more on working something out with Jarrett and his swiping another Wrestlers wife again (not even Kayfabe either, heh), and seeing if they can actually Kill Ric Flair in a wrestling ring to get a few more ratings points. At least the Knockout division is still fun to watch even if they don't do much with them anymore.

 

~Rex....Says the match between RVD and Anderson shoulda remained between those two, tossing in Angle for a 3 way dance, just blew the ring dynamic.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

It seems to me that Undertaker will put on a good show when it comes to the big PPV events. Over the last 5 years or so, his matches at Wrestlemania and even at other "big" PPVs have been pretty good with him pulling out some of his old school stuff. The X factor will be HHH I think. How good a shape is he in and how many matches he has to shake off the ring rust between now and wrestlemania will determine how good the match will be. I also wonder if there will be any sort of "retirement" stipulation for the match. I mean last year Taker would not give HBK a rematch so why would he give HHH with nothing on the line? I guess we'll see what happens tonight.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Cole is doing a pretty good heel announcer. I think he realized what Jerry Lawler forgot; you can't half-ass the heel position. When they'd occasionally have Jerry & JR spar to "create tension" it never felt legit because Jerry was still playing to the audience not against them. Cole is obnoxious and it's the thing he was born to do. As long as he keeps getting heat he'll have a job.

 

Haven't caught TNA recently. Last thing I remember about them was that Christopher Daniels was gone, they were pushing big bloated former stars, the Dudleys had completely worn out their gimmick of being, well, themselves, and Hogan and Bischoff were killing the things that made TNA into something unique... the six-sided ring, letting the women actually wrestle, the x-division.

 

I tried to watch RoH the other day. I realize the production values are much lower than WWE, and somewhat lower than TNA, and while the wrestling was pretty decent, the whole thing felt like it was being filmed in someone's back yard.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

I too expect a really good match with Undertaker and HHH. I believe they will pullout all the stops to make a memorable match. I actually think this might steal the show.

 

I like Cole's heel role as well, but he goes too over the top with his screaming during some matches. He should tone that down a little bit.

 

Christopher Daniels is back in TNA playing Suicide again.

 

And with Daniel Bryan, I am sure that the name was close to take advantage of his name recognition and still own the rights. It is not a backward slap at ROH or anyone else and if you think it is so, you're really overestimating the WWE's thoughts on other promotions.

 

Rock is supposedly scheduled in some form for RAW tonight. Whoo

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Heh, Suicide, the Multi Wrestler Wrestler. If TNA wants a good oddball match, they need Kazarian to toss the Suicide Gear on and take on Daniels with the Suicide Gear on, and the Loser, has to work a year as Curry Man.

 

~Rex

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Suicide is a great Idea though for a Wrestler. When Daniels stepped in to cover for a hurt Kazarian, it showed that all you needed was a guy roughly the same size and no one could tell them apart, heh. A Suicide Tag Team showing up and snagging the belts would be a good time, heh. Then you could Do, Red Suicide, Blue Suicide. Lot of possible angles, Heel Suicide Face Suicide.

 

Jobbing to a Jersey Show cast off though.....that's a bad thing to wish on any Pro Wrestler.......well except for Jarrett. I still have difficulty coming up with anything good to say about Jarrett other then that his old man was a pretty good promoter back in the day.

 

~Rex

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

And with Daniel Bryan, I am sure that the name was close to take advantage of his name recognition and still own the rights. It is not a backward slap at ROH or anyone else and if you think it is so, you're really overestimating the WWE's thoughts on other promotions.

 

And if you believe it wasn't, you really need to watch NXT season 1 again. I mean either WWE pays no attnetion to the "other companies" and thus would not care about his name in the indys or they do and would name the guy Daniel Bryan, make comments about his "wrestling background" and "internet status" week after week while giving him a losing streak gimmick to further make fun of those "other places" he wrestled. You really can't have it both ways.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

It can always go both ways in Pro Wrestling, heh. Names are important, especially in the face of Merchandising so it's a smart wrestler that can keep his own name and his own merchandise. Don't forget there is also the minor annoyance of having to have an SAG card to work in the upper echelon of Pro Wrestling hence, you might not be able to Use your real name anyway and need to find another in order to register correctly for your kayfabe career. Happens in Hollywood the same way, just ask Michael Keaton what his real name is and why he doesn't use it on screen.

 

~Rex

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Well, Sting is TNA Champion again. Coolness! Hope this means they ditch that God-awful belt. I mean, it's a cool design, as part of a superhero costume or something, but it just does not look like a wrestling belt. Though I can't believe they expected anyone to believe it was a surprise of any kind. Especially after last week's promo. And all they had to do to really surprise people would have been not show that one short little promo. Well, no complaints from me either way. Good way for Sting to return. Although that belt does need to go back to A J Styles soon, giving every member of Fourtune a belt *grin.* Hey, is it me, or has Samoa Joe disappeared lately?

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

No one in TNA really has to work more then a few weeks a year, heh. So Samoa JOe being off camera shouldn't be a suprise. Not sure how I feel about Sting's return. Grew rather disinterested in Borden's work once he went to "The Crow" for his look, though I suppose that's a lot easier to pull off at his age then the old Sting act, heh.

 

I did notice the face paint this time contained elements of both era's for the Stinger. He's looking mighty soft though. Flair is a good decade Older then Borden plus, and he looks like he could still hurt a man in a barfight. Stings needs to hop into the gym for a few months of the Sylvester Stallone Workout. He put on a good enough show though, so not to bad.

 

TNA does seem to be ramping up with more regulars who are willing to work on a more constant basis so if they can maintain some stability in that maybe the ratings will go up. Remains to be seen. If we want Everyone in Fortune to have a belt, I'd say, Give him the TV championship and have it defended every Thursday night. That was always the gimmick of all the various TV championships anyway....

 

Always felt the Wrestling Federations and groups out there should go back to the old format where each title was the automatic number one contender for the title above it. Seemed to fit better that way and gave each lower case title something of an amount of credibility.

 

~Rex

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Always felt the Wrestling Federations and groups out there should go back to the old format where each title was the automatic number one contender for the title above it. Seemed to fit better that way and gave each lower case title something of an amount of credibility.

 

~Rex

 

I agree 100 percent. I always thought it made the most sense seeing that each belt is not separated by a weight class or regional restriction. That would be tough for TNA though with 3 belts out there. What is the order between X division Champ and TV Champ? Maybe they could leave that vague so you could have the occasional dust up between "secondary" champs as to who is the real #1 contender. But for WWE, it would be a little easier and would make the belts feel more important again.

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Re: WWE Snark-Free Zone

 

Well in TNA, three titles can work easier. I'd say, the TV title has to be defended on TV, weekly. The X-Division title, can only be challenged for in an X-Division match, which should force the return of the 6 sided ring and the over head stuff otherwise, X-Division just becomes the same as WWE's Intercontinental/US belts...

 

So it would be cool with some minor dust ups between belts......and it would be cool if the old belt pecking order were re-established.....

 

The old Hardcore belt can come back in the WWE too. Those were some entertaining matches, heh. European Belt, that can stay gone.....

 

TNA I think has the best format right now to do something with their belt system. WWE, a bit tougher with the two brands but not undoable.

 

~Rex

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