Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

[Boll Weevil]

You are the GM. A certain good-looking and devilishly charming player in your group is playing a Spider-man homage. His character has, among other things, in his web-slinging Multipower: Entangle (various Advantages), Swinging, Stretching, Barrier, etc. His MP is all Fixed but we can discuss both ways.

 

The group is fighting several robot minions and wants to do a Multiple Attack. No problem. He describes his action thusly from the video: Spiderman's attack at ~1:30.

 

What is your ruling? Will you allow it? I have never heard mention of an entangle with an attached manipulating line. I suppose a whip would work the same way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAQwpzkxp_4

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

The attack on the first robot is a Flash (I'd say NND), and the grab-and-pull on the other two robots was a multiple-attack with Stretching (Grab), no Entangle involved that I see.

[Boll Weevil]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

Makes sense. Repped.

[dmjalund]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

I'd replace Flash with naked adder of Bloks Sense - as it takes doing BODY to remove it

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

How does one handle the fact that you are supposed to be able to attack the part of the character that is stretched? Is there a modifier I'm not remembering or in game terms can someone slice Spidey's web and hurt him since he was using the "Stretch" webbing?

[Gnaskar]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

How many times have you seen Spiderman yanked forward or into a wall by an enemy he'd hit with a net line that turned out to be stronger than he looked? Of course you can hurt him using the net. There's just usually another special effect than "cutting" involved.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

That sounds like a throw or some such. Per RAW you can simply strike the "limb" of the stretched character that has grabbed or (if I remember right) even just hit you. How, exactly, does that work with Stretching defined as webs, or whips, or any foci really?

[Boll Weevil]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

For the blinding part Boll Weevil has a slot in his MP: : Here's Web in your Eye Entangle 5d6, 5 PD/5 ED (Stops Sight Group), Takes No Damage From Attacks (Only Head-Shots Damage the Entangle; +1/4); Does Not Prevent The Use Of Accessible Foci (-1) (75 active points). No worries there.

 

For the web-line between BW and his attacker, I wonder if the Stretching could be applied to the MP as a naked Advantage. I may just be thinking too hard about this and call it a special effect. Both Boll Weevil and his attacker could use the line in a STR vs STR contest so I don't think he is getting something for free, especially if he has already paid for Entangle, Barrier, Swinging (supplies the line) and Stretching.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

Blinding someone with webs in the eyes could also be done as a Darkness, Usable as Attack. Can use the same type of build when covering up his JJ equivalent's mouth

 

The line could be done as Stretching or as TK with Physical Manifestation.

 

If I recall, there was a "control line" advantage for Entangle to cover this sort of thing in earlier editions of Champions... someone that played one of the older editions could probably chime in to clarify...

[HawksmoorSD]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

Honestly I'd have to say it was TK with the physical manifestation that Bloodstone mentioned. Skips the issue with "attacking the stretched arm" thing.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

True, but Stretching via a Focus already sidesteps that problem:

 

Focus (varies): A character often buys Stretching

through a Focus (such as a long pole or a linegun)

to have an object that lets him reach far away from

themselves. In this case, the character’s body does

not actually stretch or elongate, and any attacks

made against the “Stretched” part of his “body”

damage the Focus, not the character.

[Greywind]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

Blinding someone with webs in the eyes could also be done as a Darkness' date=' Usable as Attack. Can use the same type of build when covering up his JJ equivalent's mouth [/quote']Considering JJ's mouth, possibly "Change Environment".

[dmjalund]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

True' date=' but Stretching via a Focus already sidesteps that problem:[/quote']But hitting and damaging the stretching focus will disable the character's ability to stretch. This doesn't happen with spidey webs

[freakboy6117]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

you could just buy it selective area effect for his hand attack and just have the special effect be using agility and webs to strike multiple targets everything else is just special effects.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

For the video clip shown, as GM I would probably just rule that it was a Sweep manuever with a colorful description since the range is short. But I could see the player wanting to grab someone across the room and pull them closer, which would require some kind of power build.

 

The problem with using TK is that it isn't reciprocal. Spidey can yank his foe, but the foe should be able to yank him around too. You could put on a custom limitations "Reciprocal" and "Only for pulling" to get around this. However you will also need to buy TK at equal to your STR unless the webbing can't take that much strain (although if it is in a Multipower slot that might not matter much cost-wise).

 

Stretching, as noted, would leave Spidey open to damage on the stretched "limb", but it isn't really a Focus because he can always make more webbing. You could buy this as "Doesn't Cross Intervening Space" so Spidey isn't hurt by any attacks to his webbing, but give him a -¼ Limitation "Can be dispelled by destroying web" and then assign an appropriate DEF and BDY value to the webbing. Or just call it IIF and handwave. Along with the limitations "Always Direct" and "Only for pulling" this is a pretty cheap power, but it could add a lot of color.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

My preferences:

 

- Entangle that stops normal sight works; do we have a Change Environment which blocks a given sense or sense group? Using that, Uncontrolled Continuous, with the "breakout condition" breaking an entangle equal to his usual Webs entangle would seem to work as well.

 

- Grab & Pull works as Stretching that does not cross intervening space, or limited TK with Physical Manifestation. The TK may be the better build, as it can be appropriately limited to not do direct damage (unless you want the ability to use "impact webbing" that can simply smack the target) and to have directional limitations (although short of pushing away, Spidey seems to be able to move things anywhere with those webs), can lasso the target's limbs (Grab) in addition to being used to pull, could Disarm targets, etc. The action in the video could reasonably be done with Stretching (Grab and Do Damage) and doesn't need TK, although some kind of AoE may be better to avoid losing DCV from a Multiple Attack. In Hero terms, though, Spidey could use a phase the robots don't have to make the Multiple Attack (he does stand still while firing off the web, pulling the 'bots together and smacking them together), then use his next phase (before the robot acts) to leap away and, at the same time, regain full DCV.

 

Finally, is it a Multiple Attack, or is Spidey much higher SPD than the robots, such that he can Flash, then use his TK, perhaps Spread to hit multiple targets or perhaps his TK has an AOE - Selective Cone type advantage?

[Spidey88]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

My own opinion leads towards limited stretching (at least, that's what I've used for this sort of thing). Focus should cover the stretching "limb" being damaged without the character being hurt (at least close enough to handwave it - if not, throw in "physical manifestation" for a swinging slot in a web MP and it covers the bases close enough for me). In addition, I'd want to thrown in another limitation (besides the obvious ones) - "limited vectors" (for -1/4 or -1/2 or so) to represent that the character can't directly lift objects at the end of a webline without some sort of pulley action. Basically, he yanks on the line, whatever's at the other end moves more or less towards him. Still, there's a lot of fun to be had with weblines in combat - Passing Throw is a particularly fun combo. While leaping or swinging over or past a target, catch the target with a webline and you can fling him all over the place with both cinematic awesomeness and some vague adherence to the laws of physics, using your own mass and momentum like a pendulum! Clinging makes some moves even easier to imagine, especially when you're dealing with 3-D combats or flinging a baddie in a wide arc around you (AOE - circle).

 

 

As for the "web to the face", I concur with you that Entangle, with "blocks sight group" is the way to go. Target can't see until the web comes off. It should work for shutting JJJ up too, since you're webbing his mouth shut IMHO. A little handwavey, but it follows the special effects and is a pretty specific situation - you could awlays toss in "blocks hearing group" if you really want to cover the bases.

 

Unsurprisingly, I've got some experience dealing with this in my own games. I was usually the GM, but my players never offered any complaints with the power build.

[Spidey88]

Re: Web-slinger: fun with spider webs

 

My preferences:

 

- Grab & Pull works as Stretching that does not cross intervening space, or limited TK with Physical Manifestation. The TK may be the better build, as it can be appropriately limited to not do direct damage (unless you want the ability to use "impact webbing" that can simply smack the target) and to have directional limitations (although short of pushing away, Spidey seems to be able to move things anywhere with those webs), can lasso the target's limbs (Grab) in addition to being used to pull, could Disarm targets, etc. The action in the video could reasonably be done with Stretching (Grab and Do Damage) and doesn't need TK, although some kind of AoE may be better to avoid losing DCV from a Multiple Attack. In Hero terms, though, Spidey could use a phase the robots don't have to make the Multiple Attack (he does stand still while firing off the web, pulling the 'bots together and smacking them together), then use his next phase (before the robot acts) to leap away and, at the same time, regain full DCV.

 

Though I'm fairly confident it wouldn't work with 6th ED, Spidey built in 5th could be built with TWC, OCV levels with sweep, and some DCV levels with the limitation "only to counter DCV penalty from Sweep". It's how I did it with my interpretation of him, anyway - he routinely smacks around 2 or 3 thugs at once without seeming to worry that he's lowered his defenses doing so. Since I assume he relies almost completely on his stratospheric DCV (possibly some combat luck too), I'd say that's something of a necessity!