6th Edition Brick

[dmjalund]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Hows this for an idea: allow a character, at the cost of (say) 5 appropriate skill levels, gat a boost of speed for one turn.

[Ice9]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

[stuff]

Agreed on that - I've found that in 6E, you can be very effective with no DCV to speak of, and with AoE attacks, not much OCV either. Low SPD, I'm not so sure. It doesn't mechanically prevent you from being effective, but personally, I'm not patient enough to wait much longer between turns than everyone else.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Crud. Champions 6e is currently out of print. Anyway, that section DocSamson posted is really helpful. It seems I've been skimping on my PD/ED. I usually lower my base PD/ED when I add DN.

 

Speaking of which, is there anything wrong with using 25% Resistant DR plus 3 DCs DN instead of the full amount of either?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

...

 

Speaking of which, is there anything wrong with using 25% Resistant DR plus 3 DCs DN instead of the full amount of either?

 

Nothing wrong but it does mean you have to go through 3 different calculations every time damage is applied vs. the character's defenses. That seems a little excessive if all 3 defense types are always in use.

[Tasha]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Crud. Champions 6e is currently out of print. Anyway, that section DocSamson posted is really helpful. It seems I've been skimping on my PD/ED. I usually lower my base PD/ED when I add DN.

 

Speaking of which, is there anything wrong with using 25% Resistant DR plus 3 DCs DN instead of the full amount of either?

 

I have to wonder how effective 3 Damage Classes worth of Damage Negation really is. I mean it's a devistating defense, but it's really cheap to negate the negation. Which will leave the character with their regular defenses.

 

Damage Resistance is best in games where tons of damage is being thrown. It's great at taking the edge off of 12d6 attacks, but the Smaller the DC the less that DR reduces.

 

I am a proponent of KISS when making characers. ie Keep it Simple Sweetie. It can be fun to take exotic defenses like DR and DN, but overall the best performing bricks will have plain PD and ED (with as much resistant as their GM will allow)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

There should be something that balances out the brick's high defenses and near immunity to being stunned. Being slower is a real good way to make the Martial Artist and or Speedster feel better about buying SPD 6 with lower damage than the rest of the party. If the party is averaging spd 5 then it's really not that big of a deal to be one slower. I haven't run/ been in many running battles' date=' so having the brick moving as far as everyone else hasn't been an issue.[/quote']

 

So much depends on the actual game that it's hard to generalize. For example, if we interpret "the ranges in the book for Standard Supers" to mean pretty much every character will have a 12 DC attack and 25 defenses, then the Brick needs to take the same SPD, OCV and DCV as everyone else so he'll be competitive.

 

However, if it means Energy Projectors with 10 DC attacks and 20 defenses (with 8 DCV and 5 SPD) and Martial Artists with 8 DC and 15 defenses (but 6 SPD and 10 DCV), then being a Brick with 12 DC and 25 defenses, but a 4 SPD and DCV 6 seems a lot more equitable. Too ofte, "This is the campaign max" is interpreted to mean "This is the level every character will be set at" rather than "This is the level reached at the peak, and having Max in one area should mean weaknesses in others".

[Doc Samson]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

So much depends on the actual game that it's hard to generalize. For example, if we interpret "the ranges in the book for Standard Supers" to mean pretty much every character will have a 12 DC attack and 25 defenses, then the Brick needs to take the same SPD, OCV and DCV as everyone else so he'll be competitive.

 

However, if it means Energy Projectors with 10 DC attacks and 20 defenses (with 8 DCV and 5 SPD) and Martial Artists with 8 DC and 15 defenses (but 6 SPD and 10 DCV), then being a Brick with 12 DC and 25 defenses, but a 4 SPD and DCV 6 seems a lot more equitable. Too ofte, "This is the campaign max" is interpreted to mean "This is the level every character will be set at" rather than "This is the level reached at the peak, and having Max in one area should mean weaknesses in others".

This is very true, and in my opinion also makes for a more fun game.

 

At the risk of going off topic, I have instituted a "rule of X" type guideline for character creation as opposed to an AP max for our most recent game (which will hopefully get off the ground sometime).

[Christopher]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Nothing wrong but it does mean you have to go through 3 different calculations every time damage is applied vs. the character's defenses. That seems a little excessive if all 3 defense types are always in use.

Funnily, this would most likely be the main reason for my gm to not allow them. About their usage: I think DN is very good for simulating "Imunity to normal weapons" (Buy 6 + decend Resistant and you can ignore them) and as mentioned above, DR is good with large attacks or for "Boss" Enemys, so they are harder to stun, but everyone can contribute to the damage.

 

I am a proponent of KISS when making characers. ie Keep it Simple Sweetie.

I only know the interpration from software devellopment: KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid:)

 

About Speed:

I too do not want to wait to long for a phase, so 5 is the minimum. That is barely "competent" and a fighting character should be at least competent in a such battle-relevant value (and even the BR list for Superheros speed 5 as minimum).

 

Unfortunately the rest of my life wants some more attention right, so it may take some time before I get to posting my design.

[Tasha]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

So much depends on the actual game that it's hard to generalize. For example, if we interpret "the ranges in the book for Standard Supers" to mean pretty much every character will have a 12 DC attack and 25 defenses, then the Brick needs to take the same SPD, OCV and DCV as everyone else so he'll be competitive.

 

However, if it means Energy Projectors with 10 DC attacks and 20 defenses (with 8 DCV and 5 SPD) and Martial Artists with 8 DC and 15 defenses (but 6 SPD and 10 DCV), then being a Brick with 12 DC and 25 defenses, but a 4 SPD and DCV 6 seems a lot more equitable. Too ofte, "This is the campaign max" is interpreted to mean "This is the level every character will be set at" rather than "This is the level reached at the peak, and having Max in one area should mean weaknesses in others".

 

Wow! we agree about something. Yep I am a proponent of doing just what you describe (ie bricks DC 12, EPs at DC 10, and MA's at DC8 with Spd at 4,5,6 respectively). Next time that I run, I am going to write out that as part of the Campaign Guidelines.

[Tasha]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Funnily, this would most likely be the main reason for my gm to not allow them. About their usage: I think DN is very good for simulating "Imunity to normal weapons" (Buy 6 + decend Resistant and you can ignore them) and as mentioned above, DR is good with large attacks or for "Boss" Enemys, so they are harder to stun, but everyone can contribute to the damage.

 

 

I only know the interpration from software devellopment: KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid:)

 

About Speed:

I too do not want to wait to long for a phase, so 5 is the minimum. That is barely "competent" and a fighting character should be at least competent in a such battle-relevant value (and even the BR list for Superheros speed 5 as minimum).

 

Unfortunately the rest of my life wants some more attention right, so it may take some time before I get to posting my design.

 

about KISS, I was keeping it nice. Noone wants to be called stupid, so I changed the meaning of the last character;

 

SPD 4 is an appropriate speed for a "Super". If you look at 6e1 pg 35 you will see that for low Powered, Standard and High Powered supers a 4 speed is part of the range of SPD values. Therefor SPD 4 is "Superheroic" for at least 3 powerlevels of Supers. Also 6e1 pg 48 lists SPD 4-5 as being Competent. Superhuman Spd is 8+ (which I have never seen a PC Hero take as their SPD since I started playing Champions in the 80's). It's up to you though. If it were me and everyone was taking 12d6 attacks, I would ask the GM if I could be DC 14 if I dropped my spd to 4 and kept my DCV lowish (ie 5 or 6). That's just me though.

[Enforcer84]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

I do complex better than simple

[Martin2]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

I wish this thread had been going 4 months ago as I would have modified my groups characters to incorporate lots of the suggestions about relative speed / DC’s etc into the party balance. Not just the brick.

I am learning a lot from the various chats. I have the problem of little Hero system experience and none of my players have the experience or any books and it is only threads like this where idea’s get bounced of each other that you think “yes that is logical” and I would have taken years of game play to come to that.

The problem is I have the characters already developed for 9 game sessions so they may not appreciate a “Ok guys I’ve changed my mind and here are your new characters with slightly different stats some decreased and others increased”.

But then it never happens in the comics does it???

[Christopher]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

about KISS' date=' I was keeping it nice. Noone wants to be called stupid, so I changed the meaning of the last character[/quote']

Since we programmers mostly say that to ourselfs, we can hardly hurt our own feeling with it:)

 

About DN. I just realised, that it is very potent against any killing attack with Stun Multiplier Bonus. You can not ignore 2d6+1 with 1/2d+1 Stun Multiplier (up to 13 BODY and 52 STUN) under 40-50 Points of Defneses vs. Stun. Especially when the weapon has Autofire. But when you have 3-6 levels of DN instead, it's suddenly much less of a treath (7 BODY, 28 STUN Max or 1 BODY, 4 STUN).

It is automatically resistant, and neither affected by Armor Piercing nor Penetrating. Of course, when you have to take it out of your ED/PD Pool, you may be more vulnerable/stunable to normal attacks...

 

Edit: It's also a kind of Knock Back Resistance (since less BODY means less Knockback), and in a way a "Power Defense, Only for Drain BODY and Drain STUN"

[Doc Samson]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Anyone know the name of the character pictured in the excerpt I posted? Thanks in advance.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Anyone know the name of the character pictured in the excerpt I posted? Thanks in advance.

 

You mean his name isn't actually Brick?

[Tasha]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Anyone know the name of the character pictured in the excerpt I posted? Thanks in advance.

 

Looks like an homage to the Mr Fixit form of the Hulk. Unless the character was detailed in 6e Champions Villains that Picture doesn't depict anyone from the CU prior to 6e.

[Christopher]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

It took me over a week, but finally I have a draft (it is not really complete, but it tells you where she goes):

 

Landslide:

25/60 STR +15

12 DEX +4

20/30 CON +10

13 INT +3

10 EGO

13 PRE +3

7 OC +20

7 DCV +20

3 OCMV

3 DCMV

5 SPEED 30

7 PD 5

7 ED 5

15/24 REC 11

50 END 6

13 BODY 3

60 STUN 20

15 Running 3

4 Leaping 0

0 Swimming -2 (sinks like a stone....)

156

 

Defenses will come in one of theses configurations:

7 Normal, 3 Resistant

7 Normal, 18 Resistant (5 of wich cost endurance);

7 Normal, 8 Resistant, -6 Damage Negation (including the 5 wich cost endurance)

 

Constant Powers (Survivalist, Silicon Based Physiology):

4 Knock Resistance -4m (Heavy Template)

2 LS, Extended Breathing: 1 End/Minute

1 LS, Diminished Eating: once per week

1 LS, High Pressure

2 LS, High Radiation

2 LS, Intense Heat

1 LS, Longelvity: doubled Lifespan

10 LS, Immunity: To all terestial Diseases and Poisons

8 Regenration (1/Hour; 8 AP)

9 "Tough Skin" 3 rPD/rED, 9 AP

10 Power Defense

Total: 50

 

Limited Powers (all unified -1/4; maybe "personal limitation", see Notes):

8 +10 CON (10 AP), Unified(-1/4)

7 +9 Recovery (9 AP), Unified(-1/4)

28 +35 STR, 35 AP, Unified(-1/4)

23 Increased Regeneration (adds to normal; Total of 2/Turn w/ Regrow Limbs or 37 AP;effective 29 AP), Unified(-1/4) maybe Endurance to Maintain and/or Concentration (not ceratin jet)

5 Steadfast: Knockback Resistance -6m (for a total of 10m), Unified(-1/4)

Total w/o Limitation: 71

 

64 80-Points multipower Reservere, all Slot Unified(-1/4) (and mybe "Personal Limitation" also Part of the "Limited powers"):

7v Superspeed Run (+45m = 60m, 2x Noncombat), 45 AP, Unified(-1/4), 36 RC

1v Strong Leap (+16m = 20m, 2x Noncombat) 8 AP, Unified(-1/4), 6 RC

5f Just like a walk in the rain DC -6/-6 (60 AP), Unified(-1/4), 48 RC

5v Impenetrable Body: 10 PD/10 ED, Resistant (+1/2) 30 AP, Unified(-1/4), 24 RC

1f Subconcious magical shielding: 5 PD/5 ED, Resistant (+1/2), 15 AP, Cost Endurance to Activate(-1/4), Unified(-1/4), 10 RC (mostly as a NND protection)

Total Cost for Multipower: 83

 

Current Total Costs: 360

 

75 Disadvantages:

10 Phys Compl., Weighty

20 Code vs. Killing, Common, Total

25 The Gang (DNCP, Normal, Frequently, Group of four People)

Note: A small gang she prevented from bullying people. Are after her to "even the score" but don't have the means to do her any harm. Oblivious to danger and so they need to be saved whenever they pop up...

15 Polarizing Presence (Distinctive Features, Concealable, Always Noticd Major Reaction, Easy Detection)

Note: A little bit like the "gorgeous" example, but is not based on atractiveness but simply her presence (unless se sucessfully disguises). Stops if Magical Powers are drained/affected by Power Limitations since it is somehow based on them.

5 Public No-Name ID (Infrequently, Minor)

Note: She can not hide her ID effectively, but is also new to this side of the world and is thus considere "mostly unknown".

 

 

Background:

{Highly suvivalist, silicon based and magical infused critter found it's way to our earth. Either from space, or alternate earth}

{Sabrina Meier was a comming artistic gymnastic, on her way to joining the german olypics team}

{Sabrina was attacked by the alien/alternate earth critter, but it was defeated by a nearby hero}

{On dead, the final survival reaction kicked in: The a part of the blood became alive and "merged" with the first creature it could find -Sabrina}

{As she got concuios again, her body was transformed it a half-silicon based lifeform and her density has increased to the piont that she weights 400 Kilogram}

{As a Metahuman she was not allowed to continue a olypimc sports career. Besides, the equipment had difficulties with her new weight (wich doesn't stopped her from trying anyway)and her new body made all her former training useless}

{On the plus side her body was now superhumanly strong and durable, wich is even augemted by her personal magic effect}

{After the change, there was little left to do for her and she deceided to become a superhero. After sufficcient training, she sets out to "campaing city" to do some good}

 

Apereance:

Her physique is still that of a slender, human woman. But her skintone is grey, and "veins" of white cristall are everywhere on the surface. Her irises are silver. Also, she weights a lot more than she looks like.

Clothing/Hair changeable: She can create and change both personal clothing and hairstyle at will. This is not really Hair or Weave, but rather a form of metal (she dubbed it "Phoenix Metal"), formed into thin metal weave. The collor patterns are limited (brown to black, ) and regardless of form it does not provide any in game bonus (can't help hide, no termal resistance). But the clothing is as tear resistant as questionite and naturally "clings" to her body if she want's it. She can't form items and removing the clothings/hair or chaging to a different set results in them just "burning" away in a heatless fire (hence the name).

 

Powers/Tactics:

She's a land based brick.

She has two sources of powers her mutation/silicon based organism. And the inner magical powers that further increase her physical abilites. Despite beeing magical, these powers are mostly self sustaining once "locked in" and there is currently no know way to use them on others.

Another noticedable ability, is that her body "adapts" to adverse conditions when subjected to it (she has a lot of NND defenses and they are going to be more...).

Her main weakness however, are cold and low pressure/vacuum.

In battle she has one distictive weakness: She has no distance attack (aside from "Objects of Oportuniy") and thus has difficulties with fliers.

 

Note:

I uses the "Heavy" Template, for about 400-799 Kilo of permanent density increase.

"Personal Limiation": Part of her Weaknesses may be that her powers do not work in cold environment, low pressure environment and (potentially) vs. Cold Based Attacks

I am not certain yet how exaclty cold/low pressure affects her. What I know with certainity is: It kicks in, as soon as she leaves the comfort zone downward (starts loosing rec/end).

Possible ways (severity gardes) it could affect her:

- Just the magical powers go. They can stop bullets, but cold or thin air just washes them away. Makes her a competent normal at best. In this interpretation, she may herself have the LS Cold/vacuum but her "Limited Powers" have the limitation that they don't work in that environment. (Only Limitation)

- Physical effect, low: Her body is the one affected by cold/low pressure but imedeatly starts using the magic to counter its effect. Basically the sequence DRAIN (all her unified powers), then STUN, then BODY for a Susceptibility disadvantage. (Only Susceptibility)

- Physical effect, high: Like Cryptonite. Instant loss of powers and ongoing damage (STUN, then BODY; but more around the time peroid for rec/end loss from environment). (Limitation + Susceptibility)

 

Things I also consider to give her:

Martial arts (Grab, throws, punches). But first I have to read through that part of the rules.

A double knockback for (parts) of her STR, but not when using objects to hit (unarmed, HTH and non-Killing only).

Tremor Sense, Passive (Targetting Sense/Detect based on Touch; Could skip the flash resistance for that).

Megascale Tremor Sense, Concetration (0 DCV); Highly Optional, and only if GM thinks it fits.

[Christopher]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Time to show you some pictures I guess. Since this is an adaption of a half-human race from a Space RPG, there are of course some picture.

Especially, this demonstration material (large parts of the core rulebook) is availible for free Download here:

http://www.nova-rpg.de/nova_main.php?produkt=1&page=produktzeigen&art=download (only German, 63 MB).

 

Since all of you can now download the pictures in original source, I think it is not that critcal if I show you a selection of the shown pictures.

And when you live in Germany and tend to visit the NordCon, RatCon, FeenCon or RPC in Köln (Cologne), take a look for the game. The Autor usually makes demonstration session.

 

Three Pictures, Head/Face only. There is one realtively good and two rather weak ones:

 

Here one Fullbody+Environment:

 

Another Fullbody + Environment. For that one, I am not even certain if that is the species or just unusual face cosmetics. But the scene certainly looks cool:

[dmjalund]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

are you sure you're in the right thread?

[Christopher]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

are you sure you're in the right thread?

This is my thread that I opened for the sole purpose of finding help with building this character - so: Yes!

[BNakagawa]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

You'll never get by playing a def 25 brick in a 12dc game.

 

The math just isn't there. You'll be taking an average of nearly 20 stun per hit, and you'll probably be getting hit all the damn time. You'll need triple digit stun just to survive a turn in combat.

 

(assuming you aren't playing some nearly broken construct such as damage absorb to stun)

 

I get by playing a DCV 3 SPD 4 Brick in a high powered game because of massive defenses. 1d6 of damage negation (both) and average 39 defenses, more than half of that resistant. Even with all of that and a 33 CON, this character is usually running low on stun by the time phase 12 rolls around. I doubt a multi-turn combat would be feasible. The villains hit all the time and do a ton of damage. The party has a SPD 8, two SPD 6s and two SPD 4s. Granted, 12d6 is what the lightweights throw around, but the villains often feature more firepower than a PC would be allowed.

 

In a 12d6 game, 25 def is fine for a skirmisher or a sniper, but if you plan on going out of your way to take fire, you had better have a great DCV (effective, but not very Brickish) or way more defenses.

[Christopher]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

The average speed is 5 (by wich I mean, everyone has exaclty 5!).

Also, the limits were set by the GM so I can't just ignore them. And so far, none of the supers got more than stunned in Combat in this campaign.

And with that defenses, she is definitely on top of the defense-foodchain for her environment ;-)

 

Here are the other to compare:

http://www.herocentral.net/characters.htm;jsessionid=aSzQ76wC-v4a?campaignId=1030163

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

You'll never get by playing a def 25 brick in a 12dc game.

 

This depends on the game. I'm pretty sure the book guide for standard supers is defenses that cap at 25.

 

The math just isn't there. You'll be taking an average of nearly 20 stun per hit' date=' and you'll probably be getting hit all the damn time. You'll need triple digit stun just to survive a turn in combat.[/quote']

 

This is an issue I find with the standard ranges as well, but the game can be designed around it being rare to make it through a turn of combat unscathed. I find it problematic when DCV's range from, say, 6 for the Brick to 8 as a standard to 10 as high and 13 for really high DCV characters, but their defenses get capped at 25, 22, 20 and 18, say. The low DCV character can't compete.

 

In a 12d6 game' date=' 25 def is fine for a skirmisher or a sniper, but if you plan on going out of your way to take fire, you had better have a great DCV (effective, but not very Brickish) or way more defenses.[/quote']

 

I would suggest the poster should address the question to the GM. Assuming my, or your, or anyone else's game standards will be used in his game is inadvisable.

[Christopher]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Afaik the PD/ED are sufficcient and I already told that. And at least three time as I might add:)

If you still think it not enough, don't bother about it. I'm going to work with it and ask the gm if she already has archieved the best possible starter defense.

 

I need more information regarding the rest. Is this a overall useable build? What about the complications? Usage of Running/Leaping instead of flying? Putting all that into the multipower?

How much could the "Personal Limitation" be worth? What about the optional powers?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: 6th Edition Brick

 

Campaign norms tell the tale, in large part. Some observations:

 

- 10 EGO and 13 PRE will, in my view, leave the character strongly exposed to Presence attacks.

 

- If you expect to get hit a lot anyway, 7 DCV may be useless points (if you’ll be hit 80% of the time with a 7, a 4 won’t mean you get hit a lot more often, and will free up 15 points). However, my normal approach would be to reinvest those points in defences such that being hit all the time isn’t as big a deal, so we’re again back to game norms. In some games, the brick is way slower and far tougher than other characters. In others, the Brick is a little slower and a little tougher.

 

- Just an observation, but 10 meters of Knockback is the average from a 12 DC normal attack, so he’ll be knocked over by an average attack w/ 10 meters resistance. If you want to minimize that, you may want to buy it up.

 

- I’d consider a Susceptibility which drains powers in environments she is vulnerable to, rather than a limitation.

 

- Tremor Sense would be very beneficial against Flash.

 

I’d discuss how you envision the character performing in combat with the GM, and get a sense of whether he/the group finds the build consistent with the vision. From there, play it and, if there are problem areas, either tweak with xp or discuss a rebuild to better match your vision.