"Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

I'm a bit lost on the power from the title. If I have Regeneration with the raise dead option...why do I need the +50 BODY? The Regen is going to bring me back anyways(barring the one circumstance that prevents it), isn't it? Can anyone elaborate a bit more....as I'm not quite getting it...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

I just looked at the build.

I'm stumped too.

[薔薇語]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

seems rather odd but maybe it is to represent the general stubbornness you have towards dying? Not only will you come back, but you are even a pain to put down in the first place. Or maybe (and more likely) it is a type. : )

 

La Rose.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

I'm a bit lost on the power from the title. If I have Regeneration with the raise dead option...why do I need the +50 BODY? The Regen is going to bring me back anyways(barring the one circumstance that prevents it)' date=' isn't it? Can anyone elaborate a bit more....as I'm not quite getting it...[/quote']

 

Best Guess: It creates a bigger buffer of damage you can take if the damage you're taking is of the kind you can't resurrect from.

So, if you don't regenerate from Fire, this gives you an extra 50 Fire BODY you can eat before you truly give up the ghost.

 

Maybe?

[Badger]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

Well, I dont know the build, but I do generally pack on some extra BODY to "immortal" characters.

[Starcloud]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

Not how "death" works. If you take a hit that takes you down to double your normal body, you die regardless of whether you have regeneration or not.

That extra +50 body "Only to keep from dying" is there to prevent that and to allow time for the regeneration to kick in.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

The +50 Body has a Limitation: Only To Prevent Death (-2). It doesn't keep the character from going into negative Body.

It just prevents them from dying (which seems to be redundant when the character also has Regeneration with the Resurrection Adder).

The only thing it appears to do is delay when the Resurrection actually kicks in.

 

It might also allow the character to keep fighting while in this negative Body state but I am not sure.

If so, it might represent the first layer of Immortality (keeps fighting after 'mortally' wounded).

The Resurrection would then represent the second layer (doesn't stay down).

 

edit

I think the issue I have with the build is the (-2) value of the Limitation Only To Prevent Death.

If the build functions as I described above then the Limitation is not really limiting the character.

If it doesn't allow the character to continue fighting then it is redundant with the Resurrection Adder of Regeneration.

[Christopher]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

Not how "death" works. If you take a hit that takes you down to double your normal body, you die regardless of whether you have regeneration or not.

That extra +50 body "Only to keep from dying" is there to prevent that and to allow time for the regeneration to kick in.

Especially since Resurrection requires GM-approval. The GM can forbid it to be taken, for whatever reason. He could deem it "too powerfull" or the exclusion "too undefined" (things like phsyical body being totally shredded, how much body is this?).

But the "+50 BODY, only to determien when you die"* is just normal rules and clear defines if you, for example, can still regenerate after a 200m fall when you already had that many wounds...

 

*I asume we ware talking about somethign like this. I don't have the book but that seems to make sense for this discussion.

[Starcloud]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

Hyper, it does not prevent the character from going unconscious. All it is is a buffer that applies solely to the "At this point you die" limit, allowing regeneration more time to work and allowing the GM to have an idea of when "too much damage has been taken to allow resurrection."

[Christopher]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

Hyper' date=' it does not prevent the character from going unconscious. All it is is a buffer that applies solely to the "At this point you die" limit, allowing regeneration more time to work and allowing the GM to have an idea of when "too much damage has been taken to allow resurrection."[/quote']

Exaclty. It's an alternative Mechanic for "Resurrection".

 

With Resurrection, you return from "negative your Body", unless "specified special effect" brought you there.

With "+50 Body, Only to determine when you die" + Regeneration you return from "negative your Body", unless you where brought to negative "your Body+50".

Also, it is not bound to Regeneration but still works without external action. You can be hard to kill (have this Power), but still require healing powers or you will die eventually (no Regeneration).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

If that +50 BOD also delays you falling into negative BOD for purposes of the "bleeding to death" rules, your Regen is more effective below 0 BOD since it doesn't have to offset the 1 BOD you lose each PS 12 when at negative BOD.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

Especially since Resurrection requires GM-approval. The GM can forbid it to be taken, for whatever reason. He could deem it "too powerfull" or the exclusion "too undefined" (things like phsyical body being totally shredded, how much body is this?).

But the "+50 BODY, only to determien when you die"* is just normal rules and clear defines if you, for example, can still regenerate after a 200m fall when you already had that many wounds...

 

*I asume we ware talking about somethign like this. I don't have the book but that seems to make sense for this discussion.

 

Should have just used resurrection. The whole point of it is to avoid builds like this seems to me. A GM who didn't want resurrection probably wouldn't want this either. Frankly resurrection's inclusion was one of the things that really attracted me to 5th.

[Christopher]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

If that +50 BOD also delays you falling into negative BOD for purposes of the "bleeding to death" rules' date=' your Regen is more effective below 0 BOD since it doesn't have to offset the 1 BOD you lose each PS 12 when at negative BOD.[/quote']

Sorry, but when the exact formulation is as Hyper-Man Wrote it ("The +50 Body has a Limitation: Only To Prevent Death (-2)"), this does not prevent bleeding. Also, doens't bleeding stops once you heal the first point of Body and get Stabilized (no matter how you heal it)?

When you want a "not vs. the Damage of many special effect, but at least prevents bleeding" you could ask your GM for using the "Does not bleed" Power, with Regeneration being the SFX (and maybe unified/linked to it).

 

@steamteck:

Both variants have their part and one GM can prefert one build over the other.

Ressurrection adder for Regeneration is nice when you want something like "unless Head Severed or Staked", "unless being killed by silver Weapon" - the typical Fantasy Ressurrection.

But for superheroes it does not always fit: What special effect can kill Wolverine? Afaik none, but hitting him so often that his "Healing Factor cancels out" can kill him. Sound like a good chase for the +50 Body Construct here.

I have one or two builds that are "really hard to perma kill", but for none of them I could supply a propper "not Ressurection" SFX. +50 Body, Limited is the sollution for exaclty that problem.

[megaplayboy]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

Yeah, it's pretty much a power writeup to represent being really hard to truly kill(even once), whereas self-res doesn't make you any tougher to kill, it just makes you tougher to kill permanently. If you combine the two powers, which I suspect will often be the case, you wind up with a character that's nearly impossible to kill permanently. If you take them all the way down to the negative of their enhanced body stat, it still has to be using the method that their self-res doesn't work against, and if you use that method but don't take them all the way down, they still survive.

I suppose, if one was going to do this another way, one could use Damage Reduction, only vs. Body, only when body is 0 or lower. If using the APG, one could even use 100% Damage reduction in this same limited way, perhaps even in conjunction with regen from death. Expensive as all get-out, but it gets the job done.

[Armitage]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

Another odd part is that Redundant Organs, in the Hyper-Attributes chapter, also has BODY with the Limitation Only To Extend Point Of Death, but gave it a -1 1/2 value.

In 4e, it was -1/2, -1 if you fold in the No Figured Characteristics that doesn't exist any more (Chernobog Demon, Mystic Masters).

[Christopher]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

Another odd part is that Redundant Organs' date=' in the Hyper-Attributes chapter, also has BODY with the Limitation Only To Extend Point Of Death, but gave it a -1 1/2 value.[/quote']

Perhaps this does not Helps against Death from Oxygen Loss or similar things? Or has it any other (-0) Limitations, that you didn't noted here?

[Escafarc]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

One other thing is that BODY with these Limitations doesn't count towards Tranforms.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

There are a lot of optional rules that the extra body won't effect.

The one that came up most often when I was playing a character with this build is that the extra body doesn't change the threshold for being Impaired or Disabled.

With Damage Reduction I found that I'd often be healing off the effects of a couple different Disabling effects at the same time, which gave exactly the feel I wanted... (I was going for Demise style regeneration). Twisting his broken neck back around, re-breaking limbs to straighten them back out sort of fring

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: "Immortality Syndrome" From Champions Powers.

 

This write-up would be kind of cool combined with Damage Reduction, Only vs. STN. That way you can stay conscious while taking 'fatal' wounds. Say your regular BOD is 15, but you can go to -65 BOD before you're really dead. At below -15 BOD, you start looking like you should be dead. Broken limbs, fatal gunshots, head half-burned off, but you're still coming!.

 

On the original write-up, it always felt like regular resurrection plus ANOTHER form of simulated resurrection. So you only had to use the regular resurrection option if the simulated one (extra negative BOD and regeneration) failed. The advantage would be that the simulated version doesn't have to have a condition to prevent resurrection, the condition for that is being reduced to negative your BOD -50, only then do you have to worry about resurrection kicking in.